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NOx emissions to high on 1.6 tdci


Tombech
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HI all

I own a ford focus mk2 2010 1.6TDCI with 109BHP with 103.000 miles on the clock.

I recently put it through MOT and it failed on the NOx with 2.21 (should be below 0.56 – Euronorm 5). I always used diesel additive, a product called bell ad diesel additive often used here in Denmark.I then tried to use a service cleaner (bell ad servicerens 1d+) and long trips with high rpm. I furthermore used some EGR cleaner, spreyed into the turbo side, after the airflow sensor.I tested the emissions again and it went down to about 1.Then I used a turbo clean foam (bell add turbo rens) and sprayed it into the inlet and back towards the EGR valve and let it soak for an entire night. A few days after I tested the emissions again, still NOx was 1.

I took out the EGR valve and gave it a good clean (even though it was fairly clean to begin with), and gave it another soak in foam cleaner in the inlet.I then handed the car over to an authorized ford mechanics, that hooked the car op to a würth cleaning machine, which supposedly is making the car run solely on a cleansing agent, to clean it good.Then I tested the car again  and the NOx emission was, surprise surprise, still stable at 1. I have tested the backpressure of the particulate filter using forscan and at idle it is about 1kPa and at 4000rpm ~12kPa. In various youtube videos and forums I can gather that this pressure is not alarmingly high, can anyone collaborate on this? I also tried the static regeneration a few times without any luck.

 

Now I took of the DPF in order to change it for a new one, but it is very expensive (~800£) and I am not even sure this will fix my emission problem! I have seen some youtube videoes where people is using tap water and soap to rinse the DPF’s – any thoughts about this? I blowing compressed air to the different sensor input ports in the filter, and black smoke did come out of the filter, suggesting that it is a bit dirty at least. However, the car runs fine and there is no lack in power or likewise as others are describing with blocked filters.

 

I drive about 34miles to work every day, and about half if on the highway. I try (most of the time with luck) to avoid short trips with this car. In the past two years or so I always followed the “gear up” LED in the dashboard – at the moment I really regret this driving style. But for the past ~1000 miles it has been allowed to drive at 3000-3.500rpm.

 

Anyone have a good explanation or some good idea what to do about this car? I would like to get it through the MOT soon!

 

Best regards

Tommy

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When did they start checking NOX in the MOT?

I heard they were going to start checking EuroV diesels but didn't think that was until 2018

Not sure about trying to wash out a DPF, if its packed in then it might turn to concrete

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Ohh, sorry I might hav misunderstood the test. It is the number of particles in the exhaust gas they are measuring. I thought it was the NOx. My bad! 

My gut feeling is that the filter is absolutely not packed, but I am no mechanic so can't say it for sure.

Regards

Tommy 

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There is a smoke test, but I thought that was measured against a value of 1.5m-1

If the DPF hasn't been replaced and your at 100k then its likely it is coming to the end of its life.

Some of the guys on here will know for sure about the test, @iantt knows everything!

Certainly my 1.6 tdci sailed through its smoke test in Feb but it is a EuroIV so wasn't going to be effected by the new tests anyway, still, be interesting to know if they are now doing emissions on diesels, cant see anything in the MOT guides tho

 

 

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You are absolutely right. My car is measured against a value of 0.56 m-1 (euro V). I dont think the car is using the regeneration fluid for the filter, and by this I believe the filter type is a ceramic. Furthermore, I cant see the percent clogged or time to regeneration within forscan, not available in the ECU software I have read... And it is my understanding that the ceramic filters should last beound 125k miles. So if I could postpone the filter change a bit I would be glad (and 800 £ richer ;) ).

Best,

Tommy 

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For mot , vehicles registered from 1/7/08  the smoke meter max is 1.5m-1

Before is 3m-1 or 2.5m-1 if non turbo. This is for uk mot only .

Dont know what regs are in denmark

My advise is change air and fuel filter, give the car a good thrashing before having it retested. 

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Hi

Thanks for the reply. The airfilter seems fresh/clean and I think it was changed about 6 months ago. Can't see the fuelfilter condition though, but it was also changed in october last year (about 10k miles or so). Should it be changed that often? I primiarly tank at "good" gas stations, but I don't know if the filter can handle the additive I use..

I wish Denmark had the same regulations as UK, but sadly we don't :(

Best,

Tommy

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4 hours ago, Tombech said:

at idle it is about 1kPa and at 4000rpm ~12kPa.

Information about reasonable DPs for these cars is hard to come by. If the 4000rpm was engine unloaded (little or no turbo boost), then the 12kpa sounds high. It would be up to 4 times higher with full turbo assisted air flow. Someone else who used Forscan, reported 1.8kPa at 1800rpm while driving, after a regen.And that was with a rather poor DPF that ended up being cleaned. But a blocked DPF should give other symptoms than smoke. Error codes or frequent regens are more likely.

If excess smoke is getting through the DPF, then either the engine is making a lot more smoke than it should, or the DPF is damaged (cracks or holes, or the seal to the casing), and allowing smoke to pass.

If the engine was making a lot of smoke, the DPF would soot up quickly, with frequent regens.

The moderate DPs suggest the DPF is not clogged, the damage idea seems more likely.

I do not know how to check this, I believe the pipe fittings at each end are contorted. A bright light in one end and a snake cam in the other?

Re Water washing, this can certainly remove much of the ash from an ashed up DPF, and reduce the pressure drop, at least for a while. But any ash remaining may set harder, so it can not be repeated many times. Also it probably will not remove soot, and make it harder to burn off after. It should only be used on a DPF that has a high DP after repeated regens, and is otherwise to be scrapped.  It can get a possibly useful extra lease of life in that case.

Your DPF does not seem to fit that description, again from the moderate DP.

 

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Hi

Yes I also had difficulties trying to get any information about the pressure. I have seen in some youtube videos where the pressure was significantly higher pressures before static regeneration, but also some where the pressure was about the same as mine. 
So, I could not resist the temptation to backwash the filter with a garden hose. Before washing, I injected some turbo cleaning foam in all the outlets of the filter and allowed it to work for a about one hour. Then I used pressurized air to clean it and get most of the water out of the filter. Right now it is placed upside down to allow the rest of the water to escape.
The backwash took about 5-7mins for the water to be clean and transparent - so I guess I managed to get most of the ash/sod away. I will try to inspect it with a snake cam tomorrow and if I have the time, then refit the filter onto the car. If all goes well I can smoke test the car again on friday!

In the meantime, do any of you guys think it is worth looking into testing /replacing the injectors? I know this is also a heavy post on the budget, but I am starting to prepare for a complete change of all in between the license plates ;)

Best,

Tommy

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I'm not sure if this helps but my 2001 Focus diesel failed the smoke test here in Ireland with a reading of 4.760 I put a litre of Dipetane in the tank and it passed with a reading of 0.010, Dipetane is available here in most motor factors and Halfords

https://www.dipetane.com/

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3 hours ago, Tombech said:

worth looking into testing /replacing the injectors?

Do a leak off test. This will quickly identify any differences in the control valve operation between injectors. Finding reference data for the optimum leak off is harder, but it is unlikely they will all "wear" in the same way, as the main cause of excess leakage is damage to the seats caused by minute solid particles in the fuel.

Otherwise, if the performance & mpg (or litres / km for you, I expect!) are ok, then I would leave them. If good fuel filters are used, and changed carefully without introducing impurities, then injectors can last a very long time.

Forscan can log fuel rail pressure, and this can give a good indication of the performance of the injectors and fuel pump.

I will be very interested to hear about the effects of the water cleaning. It is clear that it does remove a lot of ash from the filter, but what the longer term effects are is unclear.

If my theory about the smoke being due to leakage past the filter element is correct, then it will not cure the smoke problem. But the good news is that only about 25% of my theories turn out to be right, so you are in with a good chance!laugh.png

 

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On 31/08/2016 at 0:52 PM, Dee_82 said:

When did they start checking NOX in the MOT?

I heard they were going to start checking EuroV diesels but didn't think that was until 2018

Not sure about trying to wash out a DPF, if its packed in then it might turn to concrete

The OP is in Denmark not the UK, so they may well check the Nox output of diesels there?

OP int he UK diesels are currently only tested for smoke opacity, I.e how much smoke the car produces under full load, so we would really need to know if your car was tested on smoke opacity for particles emissions or for example Nox output. Without knowing the correct answer it would be hard for us to advise any further.

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10 hours ago, simcor said:

particles emissions for example Nox

Simon, NOX, Nitrous Oxide, is a gas, i.e. molecules. Particles, or particulates, are different, generally extremely fine grains of carbon small enough to pass through biological membranes (in the lungs) and get into the bloodstream.

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I will try forscan to log the rail pressure, didnt know it had this feature. How do I perform a leak off test of the injectors? I hope this does not require taking the injectors out, as I absolutely don't want to do as I am sure I will break it! That I will leave to the professionals! 

I have tried several types of different diesel additive (normal driving additive, service clean, no smoke types) without any real difference, so my faith in these products to help my current situation is not big! 

The topic of this thread is wrong, it is not a NOx test they are performing but a smoke opacity test. I mistakenly thought this was the same thing! The unit is [m-1] and the car is at the moment stable on ~1 m-1 where is has to be below 0.56 m-1 in order to pass the MOT.

Peter - somehow I hope your theory about a leaking filter is not the case as I really want to avoid changing the darn thing. However, if this is the only thing standing in the way of the car passing MOT, then... hmmm! 

Thanks again everyone for your time and thought! 

Best,
Tommy

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Check your boost pipes...I'd guess ones leaking giving you the excess smoke.  You can pass the smoke test here even without a DPF as long it's not overfuelling!!

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1 hour ago, Tombech said:

Peter - somehow I hope your theory about a leaking filter is not the case as I really want to avoid changing the darn thing.

I agree!

Leak off test is done using the low pressure return pipes, no need to interfere with the high pressure system at all.

See:

http://www.fordwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Injector_Leak-Off_Test&utm_source=FordOwnersClub&utm_medium=ForumLinks&utm_campaign=referrals

Tom's advice, above, is good. A huge number of DPF problems seem to be caused by failures in the pipes from the DPF to the DP sensor, or the sensor itself.

High pressure fuel rail PID is called something like FRP, as I recall.

 

 

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2 hours ago, mjt said:

Simon, NOX, Nitrous Oxide, is a gas, i.e. molecules. Particles, or particulates, are different, generally extremely fine grains of carbon small enough to pass through biological membranes (in the lungs) and get into the bloodstream.

Good point well made a bit of predictive wording and not reading what I put before sending never ends well. Really should read things more carefully lol 

I knew what I meant to say and have amended my post to make it clearer.

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On the plus side we now know the car was tested for smoke opacity the same as the UK. So that has cleared up some confusion on the subject.

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1 hour ago, simcor said:

a bit of predictive wording and not reading what I put before sending never ends well

I suspect with the more widespread use of mobile apps to post on forums that's become a very common problem. As I notice my faculties declining :unsure: I have to carefully read through what I've typed on my old-fashioned PC keyboard before clicking submit. Even then I often have to go back and edit it.

Yes, it's now clear that Tommy is concened with particulate emissions rather than NOX and the lower Danish limits are making it difficult for him. Let's hope what he's done to his DPF helps.

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3 hours ago, mjt said:

I suspect with the more widespread use of mobile apps to post on forums that's become a very common problem. As I notice my faculties declining :unsure: I have to carefully read through what I've typed on my old-fashioned PC keyboard before clicking submit. 

My problem is my brain thinks it but my fingers get it all wrong lol

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Hi all

Last night I refitted the washed DPF filter and took the car out for a short test drive to make sure I could use it today. The car ran fine and even though I accidentally had switched the two pressure hoses :) I saw this reather quickly as the idle pressure over the filter was 0.8kPa and decreasing when I accelerated! 

I think the filter looks fairly clean, and even tough there seems to be a fault in the filter (see pic 1 and 2, which is taken through the lambda sensor hole). The third picture is taking through the lower temperature sensor hole. My 8£ eBay snakecam was too thick to enter the filter through the inlets so I cant really see how it looks from the inside.
The filter looks somewhat different than compared to "new_wrong_type" which is a DPF filter for the 1.6 tdci but without lambda sensor and one temperature port. I also suspect this filter to be a type that requires the eloys fluid and as far as I know my car does not use this fluid.

I ran the car through the opacity test today and despite my efforts the cleaning had little effect. The opacity was between 0.84 and 0.92. So there is still some way to go! I spoke with a guy who does chiptuning for a living and his first response was "The filter should be changed, it is burned through". He also said he could change the ECU and upload some VW software ( heheh :) that will ensure the car passing the opacity test, however this will of cause not fix the real issue so this is not an valid option for me! 

I need to figure out if I will change the maybe ok filter with the new 800£ one or that I believe the error is within the engine it self. My gut feeling is that the filter is ok and that I must be a problem with a bad air/fuel mixture of some kind. Then I remembered that i changed the baro sensor (I believe it is the MAP sensor ?) about 4 months ago, but I did not reset anything in the ECU. Could this be the cause of my headache? If this sensor has a different offset compared to the old sensor, would this change the fuel/air mix?

Best

"The soon to be bald guy because I don't know how to fix my stupid car! " Tommy

 

 

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2.png

3.png

new_wrong_type.png

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3 hours ago, Tombech said:

He also said he could change the ECU and upload some VW software ( heheh :) that will ensure the car passing the opacity test,

Made my day, that has. biggrin.png. Wish it was that simple!

 

3 hours ago, Tombech said:

My gut feeling is that the filter is ok and that I must be a problem with a bad air/fuel mixture of some kind. Then I remembered that i changed the baro sensor (I believe it is the MAP sensor ?) about 4 months ago, but I did not reset anything in the ECU

My gut feel is that the DPF is burned through, or dodgy. I have not seen any references to reprogramming the ECU after a change of MAP. I think the sensors are pre-set pretty accurately.

You recall that comment by John (coalport) about Dipetane? I am always deeply skeptical about such things. I have heard so much about magnets, tiger claws, bats wings and panda tails, that they cure everything. But I googled it, and the one comment that kept coming up was the smoke reduction. How it could get through an MoT test by adding quite a lot of this stuff to a tank. It costs very little compared to a DPF. Whether my idea of the burnt through DPF, or your idea of bad mixture is correct, there is little to lose by trying it. It would be interesting to know, anyway.

I am enough of a scientist to know that objective experimental results must always over-ride prejudice & skepticism. And that, just occasionally, the most surprising things do turn out to be true.

Oh, and that reminds me, I must try putting some magnets on my fuel system. A bloke in the local market was flogging magnets claimed to improve fuel consumption. I am 99.9% sure he was talking complete b......s (roundish things that men have, in case the translation fails), but I need to be sure!

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Okay I will try replacing the DPF! 

I got a hold of a walker evo s (type 93098) which is an silicon carbide and can replace the currently mounted filter. However I found that walker also have a cheaper series called the evo c (type 73098) which is a cordierite and about 150£ cheaper.

I found a little information on the two types on walker's homepage ( http://www.walker-eu.com/en-uk/press/tenneco-expands-aftermarket-leading-walker-dpf-range ) but I don't know if I should get the cheap one or the expensive is a better solution in the end. 
My plan is to wear the car down before replacing it, so I am looking for a good long term solution. Are there any of your cleaver guys that can shine some light on the filter types ?

I do have the evo S filter laying in my garage, ready for mounting but I just wanted to be sure this was the right filter, now that it is more expensive! 
And I like to save money :) 

Best,
Tommy

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I think you may be barking up thew wrong tree regarding smoke output, the filter is designed to catch soot particles therefore giving a cleaner exhaust output. Even cars that have had the DPF removed very rarely fail too smoke opacity test.

If the car is making too much smoke then it is usually one of a few things, EGR valve constantly open, leak in the boost circuit or over fuelling injectors or a lack of air to the fuel ratio. In fact even the EGR cooler if fractured can cause smoke.

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