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1.8d requires diesel non return valve, help


neilseccyvan
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i'm having problems starting a fiesta van 1.8d that i have just bought. When left for a number of hours the fuel seems to be draining back making it difficult to start. There is no diesel primer on it like there is on my escort van. Can anyone tell me where i need to fit the non return valve and where the pipe is situated.

 

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3 hours ago, neilseccyvan said:

Can anyone tell me where i need to fit the non return valve and where the pipe is situated.

Hi,

I just fitted a non-return valve to my 1.8TDCI. It was to make filter changing & priming easier.

The valve I used was a nice one, with a low pressure drop to open it:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Non-Return-Valve-Fuel-Washer-Jet-Water-Pipe-5-6-8-10-12mm-For-All-Ford-/291512397207

It went in the pipe to the fuel filter, there is a removable section in my car, with a connector for the filter at one end, and a pipe connector at the other end. But it is not critical, anywhere convenient in the supply pipe to the filter.

Putting the end of the pipe and the filter spigot in very hot water helped get the stiff pipe on. But shake off all water vigorously first!

I have not had any ill effects on the engine after putting it in. It enables a priming bulb to be used between the valve and the filter, then the bulb can be removed without all the fuel rushing back down the pipe.

 

 

FILTER02.JPG

FILTER03.JPG

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  • 4 years later...

hi i have the same problem with my connect 1.8 tdci 2007,what size of non return valve should i order ?

many thanks paul

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On 1/10/2021 at 12:41 PM, terri1963 said:

i have the same problem with my connect 1.8 tdci 2007,what size of non return valve should i order ?

I used the 8mm version for my Focus. Being the same engine I expect it will be the same size of pipe on the connect, but Ford are rather prone to changing things for mysterious reasons!

For info in:

 

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hi peter thank you ,i am now looking the fuel pipe that runs from the centre 

of the fuel filter to the pump ,a white clip is missing from it but been told cant

buy the clip seperate, also the vacuum hose from the pump going from the vacuum pump to the 

servo has been taped up and i need to replace that ,it ha a small t piece the goes to the valve that 

controls the buttery fly flap on the inlet manifold ,do you have any of these parts or could 

you recomend someone who could supply them ?

this van i have bought has caused me a bit of grief but it is in grat order body wise 

hopefully you can help as none of the breaker yards over here have any of the parts i need 

cheers and thank you peter

paul

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4 hours ago, terri1963 said:

the vacuum hose from the pump going from the vacuum pump to the 

servo has been taped up and i need to replace that

I can't help with parts really. Try this site, it lists several options for vacuum lines:

https://ford.7zap.com/en/transport/121/no/0/2433/18939/97085/#2420

I just put "ford 1438226" into eBay & got one example of the pipes. But it may take a lot of searching to find cheaper 2nd hand items.

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hi peter thats a great help ,i have been trying to sort the under power boost problem with this connect 1.8 tdci engine code r3pa

2007,no power and black smoke ,this van starts no problem first turn of the key but i changed the fuel filter proper ford one ,it is 

taking ages for it to start when the feed pipe at the fuel filter is removed ,it seems like the fuel pump is not building pressure ,i scanned it 

last week and it did come up low fuel pressure but i thought it did that because i changed the filter been driving it for a week and scanned it again

but no codes ! so i bypassed the fuel filter and fuel pipes i put my own pipes on running the fuel out of a gallon can straight to the fuel pump returns sorted etc 

the van did the same had to crank it for ever to start it used a bit of brake cleaner to help it but took ages and finally started ,so i have put it down to pump or injectors 

i carried out a leak off test on the injectors and they are all good ,i have it down to the pump but would you have the fuel pressures for the pump at cranking 

and at idle and at 3000 revs for example ? i have tried to find these pressures but cant get them any were  could you be a great help here again peter ??

hopefully you see this message and can help my friend 

paul

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7 hours ago, terri1963 said:

would you have the fuel pressures for the pump at cranking 

and at idle and at 3000 revs for example ?

Forscan data from starting my car. It fired up at 200rpm & 200Bar (20,000kPa).

Start2a.PNG

Forscan data from a run on my car:

Fuel-Run.PNG  

As you can see, the fuel pressure (FRP) varies a lot. From 300bar to 1500bar (30,000kPa to 150,000kPa). It more or less follows the accelerator pedal (APP trace) .It will not get so high just revving in neutral, it only goes up to max pressure near full power.

VSS is vehicle speed. (Obviously there is an error in the Forscan calibration here, 139km/h would be 86mph, certainly an incorrect reading, :omg_smilie:)

The MAP trace (Mainifold pressure) shows when the turbo comes in. It is not on/off, but varies in a much more progressive way, according to power needed, so also more or less follows the APP.

 

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hi peter fantasic information ,helps a lot ,i have ordered forscan and should be here

on tuesday hopefully ,but i am having problems with sellers because they do not do 

teamviewer to put it on my laptop ,i have looked at utube and it seems pretty difficult to

put the forscan on to it ,did you have any problem putting it on ?

many thanks again 

paul

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hi peter i did a fuel pressure test and got the following results 

idle 800 rpm  350 bar ,35000 kpi

2000 rpm 700 bar , 70000 kpi

3000 rpm 800 bar , 80000 kpi 

this is when the car is not moving 

do the readings look ok to you ?

i thought they would be higher at 2000 rpms and 3000 rpm ?

any thoughts on the figures my friend ?

cheers

paul

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3 hours ago, terri1963 said:

idle 800 rpm  350 bar ,35000 kpi

2000 rpm 700 bar , 70000 kpi

3000 rpm 800 bar , 80000 kpi 

this is when the car is not moving 

Sounds reasonable to me. I would not expect much higher with no load on the engine. It is power that matters for fuel use, not rpm. My car was accelerating under full throttle to get the extended bit of full pressure on the rail.

5 hours ago, terri1963 said:

i am having problems with sellers because they do not do 

teamviewer to put it on my laptop

You download Forscan direct from: http://forscan.org/download.html

It is not a commercial programme, and not usually available via anyone else, and probably not to be trusted if it is! You won't need the extended license for diagnostics, that is for PATS (programming the immobiser for new keys etc) and for some other complex procedures.

I have had no problems at all loading it onto Windows XP systems. Just ran straight off. Problems can happen with ELM327 compatibility, they vary enormously. Wireless ones are more tricky than USB ones. The supplier usually recommended on this site is:

https://tunnelrat-electronics.fwscart.com/

 

 

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hi yeah i have downloaded the forscan and i am waiting on the interface arriving 

and then the fun will start trying to get it set up 

can you shine any more light on why this connect van is hard to start and down on power peter ?

if my fuel pressures are so good why is it not starting even after bypassing the filter and piping ?

the engine just running on an independant fuel supply still wont start until the battery is drained and jumpleads 

having to be put onto it ,its a mystery to me ,could the fuel pressure control valve be faulty even thou the van

does start eventally but is still down on power but runs sweet at idle ???

any more thoughts on it peter or more of our friends on this forum would be much appreictiated 

cheers peter  

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2 minutes ago, terri1963 said:

can you shine any more light on why this connect van is hard to start and down on power

I am no expert on this. Some things I know a lot about (pressure, flow, electronics and a few other things), on many things I am pretty dumb!

My first thoughts would be poor compression in the engine, or a worn out 1st stage in the diesel pump.

A clapped out pump would make it hard to get enough pressure in the rail at cranking speed, but would have little effect once started. I don't see a cranking speed fuel rail pressure for the van, I guess it will need forscan to get that.

Poor compression (leaky valves or piston rings) would make it hard to start (a diesel relies on high compression to ignite the fuel), and have some effect over the full range.

I suspect there are other possibilities too: Poor spray pattern from one or more injectors due to clogged or damaged nozzles, Crank sensor or valve timing errors, even MAF sensor or clogged air intake filter, maybe. The trouble with engines, and not just modern ones, is that a lot of things are interdependent, I have had plenty of problems that have taken months, or even years, to pin down! Modern diagnostics can be quite useful to eliminate possibilities, but are not so good at nailing them down.

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you are correct peter i have a lot of scan tools here but they do not fix the problem 

just sort off help with the problem ,but with this one they are not lol ,it did say fault p0087

low fuel rail pressure but it has now been driven for 3 days by myself but now when i scan it with 3 different

scanners there are no fault codes coming up but still down in power but will start first time until i remove 

a fuel pipe bleed it up using vacuum pump and it will take a lot of time to start it ,i am afraid of ruining the starter 

i was hoping the hard to start and down in power problems were related but i dont know now ,i was going to change the pump 

but if the figures are saying it is working perfect and the van starts first go even without the heater plugs ,why should i change it ?

i have tested the airflow meter and that seems to be doing everything correctly but i noticed today the inlet manifold pressure was staying

at 90 kpa ,how far should the reading move from 90 kpa when the engine is running peter ?

cheers paul

 

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meant to say peter the compression results are 100% 

paul

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4 minutes ago, terri1963 said:

at 90 kpa ,how far should the reading move from 90 kpa when the engine is running

90kPa is a little low at any time. There is no intake throttle at all on my Focus, but I have just remembered that there is one on your van. Is it fully open ok? About 100kPa is normal atmospheric, though it varies a little with altitude and weather conditions. 90kPa is 900MBar, which would be a rather low pressure unless you are in the Alps or similar!

Assuming this throttle valve stays open, then the MAP reading should increase as the turbo spins up. Revving the engine in neutral should have some effect, 3000 rpm will spin the turbo up a fair bit even if the vanes stay in the off position. I see this on my car while driving, as I have a MAP display in the car (!). To get full turbo boost will require a a torque demand, ie while driving. 230kPa to 250kPa is what I see.

A fixed 90kPa reading suggests a sensor error to me.

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yes throttle plate fully open peter i even tied it back before to make sure it was not closing while i was driving

il check the too see will the kpa rise when i drive it tomorrow using the diagnostics and il try to rig a gauge up 

to see what it is doing while driving aswell ,maybe we have hit on something here but this will not cause the 

starting problem ?? could the fuel pressure control valve be that problem ?

il try the map sensor test out tomorrow and let you know my friend and once again thanks for all the help

paul

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17 hours ago, terri1963 said:

this will not cause the starting problem ?? could the fuel pressure control valve be that problem ?

It is hard to see the MAP reading 90kPa being the cause of a starting problem. It is used while running to help calculate the EGR flow, and near max power in conjunction with the MAF to avoid too much fuel (air to fuel ratio only becomes really important at max power, lean is normal for a diesel, but rich is not wanted.)

I suppose if the pressure control valve (IMV or VCV) was leaking, then that could prevent fuel pressure rising properly at 200rpm cranking speed. Bit of a long shot though, I feel. Also leaks either in the IMV or in the 1st stage of the pump could also prevent full rail pressure (1500bar) from happening. That would cause loss of top end power. If that was the case, there would usually be a fuel rail pressure DTC present. You did report a P0087, but that can be due to air after any disturbance to the fuel pipes, and it does not seem to come back. So I am not sure that is the answer.

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hi peter i think i have 2 problems ,map sensor and fuel pump 

i did the checks on the map sensor using a vacuum gauge

and the figures are not correct ,it is staying around 1.6 volts 

on the signal wire to the ecu constantly ,i have cleaned everything connected to it 

i have the egr valve blanked of but still connected to the plug ,but i dont think

that would make a difference to the map sensor ? 

i have spoken to a fuel injection specialist who live here and he is a bit confused as well

to why it is is still not starting even with an independant fuel supply going to the pump 

and having such great fuel pressure ,he has suggested maybe change the pump but il be back

to throwing parts at the van and maybe dont need them ,i have a new Bosch map sensor ordered 

i think that does need changed but the fuel issue is still confusing the life out of me ,the forscan should be here 

tomorrow and hopefully it will show up a few faults pressures etc 

just one question does the forscan scan ford transit connects ? i have emailed the company who sell it 

but no reply yet ,could you check on yours if it does them ok ? the engine number is r3pa and it is 2007 model ?

many thanks again peter 

paul

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is there a section on our forum were i could download a workshop manual for the connect ?

i have had a look but not seen one yet peter 

paul

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2 hours ago, terri1963 said:

does the forscan scan ford transit connects ?

On the update history site for Forscan: https://forscan.org/changes_history.html

there are plenty of entries for transit connects of various types, so it should work. Certainly worth a try.

It would be great if we could download proper workshop manuals, but they are a closely guarded secret it seems! I have tried to use a ford workshop manuals site:

https://workshop-manuals.com/ford/focus_2004.75_07.2004/mechanical_repairs/3_powertrain/303_engine/303-01g_engine_1.8l_duratorq-tdci_(lynx)_diesel/specifications/

but I have never managed to get much out of it, and can not seem to navigate around it at all well. Very hit & miss as to what I find there.

I am lucky in that the Focus (Mk2 &3) full wiring schematics managed to escape from the veil of secrecy and get on to this site, but that is about the only thing I know of that has. Haynes is the best I have, and it is useful but sadly quite limited.

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i was looking tonight at the haynes one for the connect 

and you can pay £4.99 for 14 days ,you download it and can print of anything you wish

but after 14 days it stops ,i was going to try it but i have haynes 2015 the full lot on my

laptop but it gives very little detail very sketchy ,i bought it of a guy on facebook he loaded it 

onto my laptop using teamviewer but i would not buy the proper 2020 haynes for all vehicles 

as i dont think it is worth it ,the connect is on it but not a lot of info about it 

hopefully the forscan will arrive in the morning and i have a computer guy who will set it

up for me on my laptop he has did them before ,so il see what data we are getting from the 

van tomorrow and will let you know peter ,the new map sensor should be here and im trying 

to source a secondhand pump for it but over here the breaker yards are very limited in stock 

but waiting on a few getting back to me tomorrow just incase i need one peter 

il fill u in tomorrow

cheers paul

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hi peter i knocked the center out of the cat and the van is going a lot better 

but now the air flow meter is flashing up on the diagnostics ,signal too high 

which it is ,i have ordered a new maf sensor for it and hopefully that will be it sorted

i back probed the wires and the feed and earth are 100% working but the signal wire to the ecu is sitting at 4 volts ! 

all the time no matter what rev the car is at ,so il get the sensor fitted and let you know what happens 

the cat was about 75 % blocked really bad 

paul

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 1/29/2021 at 11:28 AM, terri1963 said:

hi peter i knocked the center out of the cat and the van is going a lot better 

but now the air flow meter is flashing up on the diagnostics ,signal too high 

which it is ,i have ordered a new maf sensor for it and hopefully that will be it sorted

i back probed the wires and the feed and earth are 100% working but the signal wire to the ecu is sitting at 4 volts ! 

all the time no matter what rev the car is at ,so il get the sensor fitted and let you know what happens 

the cat was about 75 % blocked really bad 

paul

 

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hi peter just an update the van is going superbly now 

as i said i knocked the center out of the cat and replaced the air flow meter 

and all is great ,van is driving like a new one 

thanks for all your help my friend 

paul

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