rev counter and speedo intermitant failure

[petti7676]

Hi I'm new here I've got a 2008 Mondeo ghia tdci over the last 4 months its been in and out of my local dealer for the service light coming on after about 1000 miles now this last week the battery light has been staying on every so often which I can live with as it goes out after a min or two of driving but the rev counter, speedo, fuel gauge and temp gauge don't work the trip computer works with average fuel distance and mileometer all work ford say the service light was the egr valve had it replaced no different now they say its the dpf filter i'm thinking could it be the battery dying as its the original from new any insight or if anyone else has had this problem would be grateful cheers garry 

[pragmatix]

Yes the battery can cause strange electrical faults, changing mine also original, for a new one cured EGR faults and poor starting, as to DPF faults could be the sensor or the pipes that connect is to the sensor.

[Tdci-Peter]

On 04/09/2016 at 6:48 PM, petti7676 said:

the rev counter, speedo, fuel gauge and temp gauge don't work

Sounds like an electrical problem to me.

Garage want to charge you £1000 for a new DPF, I expect.

To avoid this, you will need a simple multimeter (about £10), and a basic ODB2 scanner (also about £10). (Eg U480 off eBay.)

battery voltage should go up to about 14.2 to 14.8v with engine running (may take a minute or two after starting, but should then hold, even at idle). Headlights on & engine running should hold at over 13v at idle, and 14v with normal cruising rpm.

Engine stopped, volts should drop slowly to 12.4 to 12.6v, and even with headlights on, should hole 12v for a minute or so.

If you get the 14v, but voltage dips badly with engine off, battery is dead. If you don't get the 14v, then either battery is very flat, and it should come up to 14v soon, or alternator, or the wiring to it, is dodgy.

If battery & alternator are ok, then I suspect an electrical contact or joint problem with the Instrument cluster, or the wiring to it.

The OBD2 scanner will pick up most DPF error codes, and the engine related ones. If the EML is lighting, then there should be some codes. If there really is a DPF problem (and that would not affect rev counter, speedo etc), then you would soon see it.

(A system called Forscan is also available, it is a bit more technical to install & set up, but vastly more powerful then an OBD2 scanner.)

 

[petti7676]

I've fitted a new battery today also done a diag test all signals to cluster working fine dpf filter did regen 80 kilometres ago only fault code that was on the entire car is u0416 invalid data from vehicle dynamics control module cleared code went for test drive still the same so put old battery back on car then speedo and rev counter worked well so far but fuel and temp gauge stil inop going into ford again cant wait but its not having a new dpf lol

 

[Tdci-Peter]

5 hours ago, petti7676 said:

only fault code that was on the entire car is u0416 invalid data from vehicle dynamics control module

I am not 100% sure what that module is. I assume it does the ESP functions. On the Focus the ESP module is an upgraded ABS module, and is part of the ABS hydraulic unit. It has the wheel sensors, and provides vehicle speed to all modules including the speedo on the IC. The rev counter & temp gauge info comes from the pcm, and the fuel sensor is usually connected direct to the IC.

So the only common element seems to be the IC, all the reported symptoms are on that.

As for the dpf, that seems completely irrelevant here, like you say!

[petti7676]

hi all got car back from dealer clocks worked for a mile then went again does anybody know if the vdm is in the clocks or if I can change it without programing it or the clocks ive found a set of clocks at local scrap yard ford want £400+ for vdm by the way cheers garry

[Tdci-Peter]

5 hours ago, petti7676 said:

clocks worked for a mile then went again does anybody know if the vdm is in the clocks or if I can change it without programing it

As far as I can tell, the VDM is separate from the IC (Instrument Cluster, or clocks). It will communicate with the other modules like the IC & the pcm over the CAN bus in the car. Invalid data received from VDM could be due to an error in the IC, in the VDM, or in the wiring between them. Since the rev counter is also misbehaving, I would suspect the IC is at fault.

Forscan gives the location of each error, each module can generate & store its own DTCs. It might also show more DTCs than an OBD2 scanner, as it probes all the modules.

On the Focus, the IC must be re-programmed when changed. Part of the PATS (immobiliser) data is stored in it, so it is a fairly complex process. Needs Ford IDS, or Forscan can do it, but it is not very easy.

I suspect a 2008 Mondeo will be similar. However, I don't think any harm will be done by trying in the 2nd hand IC, it might work, and at least you will then know if it is part of the PATS system.

There are various places offering to repair ICs, that would be cheaper than getting Ford to re-programme a used one, even if you could persuade them to do it.

[petti7676]

the scan tool I used was a Delphi ds150e lap top software up to 2013 but there is a local auto elec place might be better than going back to ford as they cant solve the other problem thanks for your help garry

[bigbadkes]

I hap a problem with my Speedo and rev counter and other bits on dash kept going off and on also had the radio off and on and voice control and radio part of dash screen kept disappearing fords did a software update to try and fix the radio and blue tooth part but that never worked so £100 lost there they then said I need a new blue tooth module at about £250 I said forget it I wont use the radio when the dash started losing the speedo and fuel gauge fords said I need a new cluster at stupid amount of money so looking online I found its a common problem with fords and watch dog had been investigating them as far back as 2002-2003 for same problems it turns out the clusters was made with lead free solder so get problems after a wile so I took mine to a local auto electrician and he said he has fixed loads of fords with same problems left the car with him next day got phone call car fixed including bluetooth module total cost £130 I could not believe it he also said there was a software fault that he fixed to so I am very happy and it is well worth ringing a local auto electrician and see if they have fixed them before

[Tdci-Peter]

1 hour ago, bigbadkes said:

I took mine to a local auto electrician and he said he has fixed loads of fords with same problems left the car with him next day got phone call car fixed including Bluetooth module total cost £130 I could not believe it he also said there was a software fault that he fixed to so I am very happy

Great to hear a post with a good ending!

A dealer charging £100 for doing nothing useful is all too common. Then wanting another £250 to fix the wrong bit! I have heard that one before too.

I have read varying reports about auto-electricians, some good, some really dismal. Sadly there are cowboys & incompetent goons about who are of little use. But equally, there are some really good ones, who know what they are doing.

I wonder if the one you used would like his business phone number or email broadcast on the internet, like on this site? It might be useful for others locally, or more remote if he can work on parts sent by post.

---

It is certainly true that problems were caused through much of the 2000s, by the change-over from lead-tin solder to near pure tin. It is not the solder that is at fault, everything except a few military & very specialist devices is made using lead free solder now. It was that the assembly & soldering process needed a few small adjustments, and some assembly plants just did not get it right. Little errors with very expensive consequences!

[Gary Holmes]

Hello to everyone who take the time to reed this. I have a 2007 mondeo and the only problem I have had with my car apart from wear and tear service items this is the best car I have ever owned. I have an issue with the speedometer which works when it wants to and when it’s not working the speed indicator needle sits at the 6 o’clock position at when my speed hit 40 mph I goes backwards and sits at the 100mph speed and goes back to the 6 o’clock position until you hit 40mph when I speed up again. When I am cruising at 60mph the speedometer, sometimes a few miles or it can be after after 25 miles of varied driving, the speedometer needle suddenly starts working again perfectly again until you turn off the engine and the problem is back again. All other systems like the abs are cruise control work fine which rule out the speed sensor and abs wheel sensors. Everything on the whole gauge binnacle pod work fine, no engine management lite coming on or any other faults. Any ideas please or is it likely to be a soldering joint or faulty speedometer? Thank you to anyone who can put a light on the subject 

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, Gary Holmes said:

is it likely to be a soldering joint or faulty speedometer?

It almost has to be a fault on the IC (Instrument Cluster) pcb. I guess it is the same as the Focus & other cars, which use tiny stepper motors to drive the needles, all controlled from a big micro-processor. This chip gets most of its info, including speed, rpm & engine temperature, from other modules over the CAN bus. So if all other functions are fine, the CAN bus and the other modules must be ok.

If it is just that gauge, then it would limit the problem to the connections between the micro-processor & the stepper motor and the motor itself.

On many Ford cars there is a gauge sweep test you can do by holding in the mileage reset button while turning on the ignition. This would verify if it was a local fault only affecting the speedo.

[Gary Holmes]

Thank you for your time to reply to my problem and I have one last question which you may or may not know the answer as technology changes all the time. Does a replacement used display and gauges need to be coded to the the car like Vauxhall, VW ect or could I just purchase a used unit from eBay and swap it over or is it a case of using a diagnostic laptop to code it to my car, thank you for your time 

[Tdci-Peter]

12 hours ago, Gary Holmes said:

Does a replacement used display and gauges need to be coded to the the car like Vauxhall, VW ect or could I just purchase a used unit from eBay and swap it over or is it a case of using a diagnostic laptop to code it to my car,

I am 99% sure it will need coding. In many cases the immobiliser keys are coded into the IC (Instrument Cluster). On cars around that age, Forscan can usually re-programme the immobiliser (PATS), but it is not a really easy procedure. See:

https://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=839

[unofix]

If you carefully take apart the instrument cluster you will be able to swap out the complete speedo module including the little stepper motor. This would mean no programming needed.