Engine malfunction message

[Vinnybhamra]

Hi everyone,

Was looking for some help with an issue ive been having with my 2008 focus 1.6 tdci, this morning i had went to go fill up with fuel and as soon as i did i started the engine and got a "engine malfunction" message on the trip computer bit of the dashboard. I double checked and i definitely put the correct fuel in. I moved my car to the main car park and started looking round. Under the bonnet all seemed to be looking and soudning fine and all fluids were how they should be. I tried self diagnostic using the test menu  and there were no codes found. At this point i rang my breakdown company cause i wasnt sure if driving was okay or not and he came and had a look and he removed my direct line drive plus box to plug in his diagnsotic machine and when he did so the error didnt come up. So i took it for a test run without the OBD black box and it was fine... I rang my insurance to claim that the device may be causing issues with my vehicle so they acceptet it to be unplugged for a while. Two hours later after about driving 4 miles and leaving the car for some time i came back to it and the warning came on again. This warning shows no lights on dashboard and no error codes on the ecu but every time i start the engine i now get a audible warning and a message on the trip computer with a warning triangle and engine malfunction written underneath. I called my breakdown again and they came out and had another look and the guy just said that everything seems to be fine and to take it to ford which i was hoping i wouldnt have to do. I saw online that it could be the dpf as my car is on 60k but i do a lot of motorway mileage and i drove 160 miles on the motorway home with clear traffic the whole way and had a little while with higher revs than normal too but the error is still coming up. Anyone have any ideas what this could be? All help greatly appreciated, thanks

[artscot79]

sadly you'll need to go to ford it's not the dog if there's no codes at all it could be a cluster issue

[Vinnybhamra]

sadly you'll need to go to ford it's not the dog if there's no codes at all it could be a cluster issue

Damn thats a pain, cheers for that ill try take it down to them at some point then

[DJ_Andy_M]

I'll hedge bets on it being the EGR valve, DPF/Eloys fluid or injector related stuff being the culprit here. Had similar weirdness with my MK2.5 1.6TDCi.

How often are you changing oil on that car as this needs to be done every 6000 miles.

[Tdci-Peter]

On 9/6/2016 at 12:40 AM, Vinnybhamra said:

This warning shows no lights on dashboard and no error codes on the ecu

It looks like the breakdown man only had an OBD2 scanner. There are a huge number of faults (mostly non-engine) that do not show up on a standard, generic scanner. It needs a Ford specific system.

I suspect dosing module problems (Eolys system), especially as it happened after a fill. This system detects fuel filling, and doses the fuel. It may be low on fluid, or faulty.

You have 2 main options:

1) Go to a garage that has the Ford IDS system, and knows how to use it (all Ford dealers & some independents will have it. How many know how to use it is a matter of opinion!)

2) Get Forscan. It is not quite as simple as the self contained OBD2 scanner, but much more comprehensive.

Forscan is a powerful Ford specific system, Cost £15.00 for the interface. Needs a computer of some sort. (COM port, USB, bluetooth or WiFi interfaces available). You will find a lot about ELM327 & Forscan on this site, which together provide a very comprehensive diagnosis & maintenance tool. James (jeebowhite) has done a nice guide: https://www.fordownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=58645

Forscan works best on a Windows laptop, with a USB ELM. The Tunnelrat one (below) has been reported to work well by several people. It is also available for iOS & Android for some tablets & phones.

For a USB ELM327 adapter, see
https://tunnelrat-electronics.fwscart.com/

Wireless ELMs are also available (bluetooth & WiFi), but are often not as reliable as the wired ones. Also they are rare in the "modified" form which is needed to access the 2nd Ford bus system. This 2nd bus is the MS-CAN bus, and links all the car interior electronics like door modules, and the BCM (aka GEM). But a standard ELM will still work with all the Underbonnet Modules (PCM, ABS etc) and with the IC (Instrument Cluster).

For an bluetooth wireless ELM, which one user at least says works with Forscan, see the KW902: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELM327-KW902-Bluetooth-Scaner-OBD-Link-OBD2-Diagnose-Interface-Tester-white-UK-/281631334205

The Forscan programme is free (in Windows format) and you can get it from:
http://forscan.org/download.html

Note: Simply reading the codes can do no harm, and does not change anything. Just do not reset the codes (and you would have to ask the scanner to do this) if you are going to take the car to a garage.

Peter.

[Vinnybhamra]

17 hours ago, DJ_Andy_M said:

I'll hedge bets on it being the EGR valve, DPF/Eloys fluid or injector related stuff being the culprit here. Had similar weirdness with my MK2.5 1.6TDCi.

How often are you changing oil on that car as this needs to be done every 6000 miles.

I havent had the car long ive probably done just under 2k on it myself but it did have a full service when i bought it and according to the service book it seems to be maintained.

[Vinnybhamra]

15 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

It looks like the breakdown man only had an OBD2 scanner. There are a huge number of faults (mostly non-engine) that do not show up on a standard, generic scanner. It needs a Ford specific system.

I suspect dosing module problems (Eolys system), especially as it happened after a fill. This system detects fuel filling, and doses the fuel. It may be low on fluid, or faulty.

You have 2 main options:

1) Go to a garage that has the Ford IDS system, and knows how to use it (all Ford dealers & some independents will have it. How many know how to use it is a matter of opinion!)

2) Get Forscan. It is not quite as simple as the self contained OBD2 scanner, but much more comprehensive.

Forscan is a powerful Ford specific system, Cost £15.00 for the interface. Needs a computer of some sort. (COM port, USB, Bluetooth or WiFi interfaces available). You will find a lot about ELM327 & Forscan on this site, which together provide a very comprehensive diagnosis & maintenance tool. James (jeebowhite) has done a nice guide: http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=21196

Forscan works best on a Windows laptop, with a USB ELM. The Tunnelrat one (below) has been reported to work well by several people. It is also available for iOS & Android for some tablets & phones.

For a USB ELM327 adapter, see
http://www.spanglefish.com/TunnelratElectronics/index.asp?pageid=516992

Wireless ELMs are also available (bluetooth & WiFi), but are often not as reliable as the wired ones. Also they are rare in the "modified" form which is needed to access the 2nd Ford bus system. This 2nd bus is the MS-CAN bus, and links all the car interior electronics like door modules, and the BCM (aka GEM). But a standard ELM will still work with all the Underbonnet Modules (PCM, ABS etc) and with the IC (Instrument Cluster).

For an bluetooth wireless ELM, which one user at least says works with Forscan, see the KW902: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELM327-KW902-Bluetooth-Scaner-OBD-Link-OBD2-Diagnose-Interface-Tester-white-UK-/281631334205

The Forscan programme is free (in Windows format) and you can get it from:
http://forscan.org/download.html

Note: Simply reading the codes can do no harm, and does not change anything. Just do not reset the codes (and you would have to ask the scanner to do this) if you are going to take the car to a garage.

Peter.

Yeah thats right it was only OBD2 and it was as soon as i started my engine after filling up so maybe that is the case. Any idea how much ford charge to run a scan with theirs? And i have contemplated buying a modified unit to try forscan but wasnt sure whether i should or not.

thanks for your help though that was a lot of useful info

[Tdci-Peter]

Just now, Vinnybhamra said:

Any idea how much ford charge to run a scan with theirs?

£50 to £100.

[Vinnybhamra]

8 minutes ago, Tdci-Peter said:

£50 to £100.

Jesus, thats a pain

[TomsFocus]

Low on Eolys fluid or faulty glow plugs would be my bet.

You'll need Ford specific diags to check though, Forscan is ideal.

[TehJazzi]

Get your glow plugs changed. I had the same on my MK2.5 1.6TDCi back in June and spent £400 getting the EGR deleted, ECU remapped and fuel filter changed (also happened to me straight after putting fuel in) but in the end it ended up being glow plug #4 that was on its last legs. All four replaced and never had any more issues with it!

 

[Trev1969]

Same thing happened to me took ford needed a PCM software update free update sorted 

[Tdci-Peter]

9 minutes ago, Trev1969 said:

took ford needed a PCM software update free update sorted

Ford & free are not two words I am used to seeing together in the same sentence!

Software update & sorted is a bit of a rare combination too, but it happened once, so perhaps it will again! We can but hope.

Any chance of ever finding out what the cause or the fix actually was?

[Vinnybhamra]

Is forscan likely to show a problem with the glow plugs if it is that? As ive just ordered a modified elm327 so will get it tomorrow was hoping to have a look then

[TomsFocus]

Forscan will show a fault code with the engine malfunction message on.  Unlikely to be glowplugs now I've re-read it as they put it into limp mode which you aren't getting. 

I'm still going with low eolys fluid...

 

 

[Vinnybhamra]

This warning shows no lights on dashboard and no error codes on the ecu

especially as it happened after a fill. This system detects fuel filling, and doses the fuel. It may be low on fluid, or faulty.

Note: Simply reading the codes can do no harm, and does not change anything. Just do not reset the codes (and you would have to ask the scanner to do this) if you are going to take the car to a garage.

Peter.

Just checked on forscan for the errors and there is a few there which im guessing is the reason why the warning message comes up. I believe that you may be correct with it being low on fluid as ive got a few main codes come up related to the fuel additive. Is this the same as eolys?

==PCM DTC P2458-21=== Code: P2458 - Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration Duration Additional Fault Symptom: - Signal is Above Maximum Threshold Status: - Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC Module: Powertrain Control Module Diagnostic Trouble Code details Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration Duration This DTC may be caused by : Over Charged Filter

PCM DTC P2585-61=== Code: P2585 - Fuel Additive Control Module Warning Lamp Request Additional Fault Symptom: - Signal is Above Maximum Threshold Status: - DTC Present at Time of Request - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC Module: Powertrain Control Module Diagnostic Trouble Code details Fuel Additive Control Module Warning Lamp Request ===END PCM DTC P2585-61=== ===FACM DTC P1922-60=== Code: P1922 - Fuel Additive Level Circuit Status: - DTC Present at Time of Request - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC Module: Fuel Additive Control Module Diagnostic Trouble Code details Fuel Additive Level Circuit If DTC P1927 or P1932 are present, resolve them before continuing. This DTC illuminates the PCL. This DTC may be caused by : fuel additive tank empty or additive level too low visually check the additive level by illuminating the tank from the side Refill the FAT if necessary. CAUTION: Always refill the FAT in accordance with the workshop manual instructions and then carry out the "Refill the Fuel Additive Tank" service function. Open circuit Short circuit to ground FAT level sensor unserviceable FACM unserviceable NOTE: After configuring a new FACM always refill the FAT in accordance with the workshop manual instructions. Make sure that DTCs are cleared from both FACM and PCM after repairs are completed. ===END FACM DTC P1922-60===

[Tdci-Peter]

1 hour ago, Vinnybhamra said:

main codes come up related to the fuel additive. Is this the same as eolys?

Yup.

Eolys is the name of the additive that Ford use.

The important error is in the FACM ( Fuel Additive Control Module ), P1922, most likely empty.

The P2585 error is just a result of the FACM problem, being flagged up in the pcm.

I have seen P2485 linked with empty additive tank before. If the tank has been empty for more than a few hundred miles, the DPF will be heavily soot loaded, and it will not clear due to lack of additive. The Eolys lowers the ignition temperature of the soot, so it burns at a temperature that is achievable, and safe for the DPF.

A check and fill of the tank is urgently needed before more damage is done to the DPF. With Forscan, a diy fill & reset is possible, but not very easy or convenient. It might have to be a garage job.

[TomsFocus]

Peter's covered that pretty well, it does look to be low on fluid, common issue now and easily fixed! 

The regen duration code doesn't bring up the malfunction warning on the dash, in fact you'd never know about that one without Forscan, but if you keep getting it after refilling the Eolys and letting the DPF regenerate you may need to force a regen (which can be done through Forscan) to clear the extra soot.

[Vinnybhamra]

main codes come up related to the fuel additive. Is this the same as eolys?

Yup.

Eolys is the name of the additive that Ford use.

The important error is in the FACM ( Fuel Additive Control Module ), P1922, most likely empty.

The P2585 error is just a result of the FACM problem, being flagged up in the pcm.

I have seen P2485 linked with empty additive tank before. If the tank has been empty for more than a few hundred miles, the DPF will be heavily soot loaded, and it will not clear due to lack of additive. The Eolys lowers the ignition temperature of the soot, so it burns at a temperature that is achievable, and safe for the DPF.

A check and fill of the tank is urgently needed before more damage is done to the DPF. With Forscan, a diy fill & reset is possible, but not very easy or convenient. It might have to be a garage job.

Cheers for your help ill try get it done asap its annoying because ive only had the car a couple months, i did notice the fuel additive resetting process in elmconfig today when i was flicking through the options. I had a look at the tank under the car today and tried illuminating the side like it said and i dont think i could see any fluid so ill try get a quote for how much it will be. Thanks again for your help

[Vinnybhamra]

main codes come up related to the fuel additive. Is this the same as eolys?

Yup.

Eolys is the name of the additive that Ford use.

The important error is in the FACM ( Fuel Additive Control Module ), P1922, most likely empty.

The P2585 error is just a result of the FACM problem, being flagged up in the pcm.

I have seen P2485 linked with empty additive tank before. If the tank has been empty for more than a few hundred miles, the DPF will be heavily soot loaded, and it will not clear due to lack of additive. The Eolys lowers the ignition temperature of the soot, so it burns at a temperature that is achievable, and safe for the DPF.

A check and fill of the tank is urgently needed before more damage is done to the DPF. With Forscan, a diy fill & reset is possible, but not very easy or convenient. It might have to be a garage job.

Just to let you know, had an interesting day today, ford quoted me 210 for a refill and dpf regen but wouldnt sell the fluid seperate so i looked around and got a couple litres of PAT fluid and the kit for 60. I was going to attempt to fill it myself but i havent got anything i can securely jack the car up and dont have any axle stands so i took it to my local garage whos also a family friend and he charged me a tenner for filling up the fuel additive tank which isnt too bad. I then went home plugged my laptop in and used forscan to run the fuel additive refilled procedure and then did a dpf regen as well after clearing all the DTCs i think its all gone perfect theres no more error codes and the dash is clear so i can only assume it worked fine!

[Tdci-Peter]

3 hours ago, Vinnybhamra said:

Just to let you know, had an interesting day today

And continued: " Ford quoted me 210 for a refill and dpf regen but wouldnt sell the fluid seperate so i looked around and got a couple litres of PAT fluid and the kit for 60. I was going to attempt to fill it myself but i havent got anything i can securely jack the car up and dont have any axle stands so i took it to my local garage whos also a family friend and he charged me a tenner for filling up the fuel additive tank which isnt too bad. I then went home plugged my laptop in and used forscan to run the fuel additive refilled procedure and then did a dpf regen as well after clearing all the DTCs i think its all gone perfect theres no more error codes and the dash is clear so i can only assume it worked fine! "

Sounds great. Please keep us informed as to the results.

 

[Vinnybhamra]

Just to let you know, had an interesting day today

And continued: " Ford quoted me 210 for a refill and dpf regen but wouldnt sell the fluid seperate so i looked around and got a couple litres of PAT fluid and the kit for 60. I was going to attempt to fill it myself but i havent got anything i can securely jack the car up and dont have any axle stands so i took it to my local garage whos also a family friend and he charged me a tenner for filling up the fuel additive tank which isnt too bad. I then went home plugged my laptop in and used forscan to run the fuel additive refilled procedure and then did a dpf regen as well after clearing all the DTCs i think its all gone perfect theres no more error codes and the dash is clear so i can only assume it worked fine! "

Sounds great. Please keep us informed as to the results.

 

Bad news, its been fine since now. Just drove it out and i noticed whilst i was driving that the engine malfunction message came on and this time the engine light came on also so i decided to go straight home and i was worried cause it felt like i had no turbo.. Plugged the car in to my laptop and got forscan up and it came up with the dpf regen error before and another one which was p242f which comes up as dpf ash accumulation.. So i decided to try a static regen thinking it would work but im guessing it fails because of it being in limp mode cant clear the codes either as they just come straight back and cant run it on the motorway of course either really not sure how to go about this now

[Tdci-Peter]

44 minutes ago, Vinnybhamra said:

p242f which comes up as dpf ash accumulation.. So i decided to try a static regen thinking it would work but im guessing it fails because of it being in limp mode cant clear the codes

P242F is reputed to be a hard one to get rid of. This is from the Forscan Forum:

"Pull the plug of the air flow sensor, and then start the engine again, stop the engine, read again the fault codes from memory ..... Now you find 2 additional errors from the MAF sensor. Reconnect plug of the MAF sensor and clear the fault memory ...... now it is possible to erase the P242F together with 2 MAF errors, and the display will not more indicate the engine management system failure." Indeed, the trick with disconnecting of the MAF plug (mass air flow sensor) allowed me to erase the fault code P242F, turn off the fault indication on the dashboard and exit the LOS mode. However, an attempt to carry out the passive regeneration on the highway also failed. Once the vehicle speed exceeds 100 km/h, and the differential pressure in the DPF exceeds 15kPa, PCM showed again the fault code P242F and car activated the LOS mode.

(See: http://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=247 )

You can monitor the DPF DP on the driveway, at idle & at 3500 to 4000 rpm.  It should be under 1kPa at idle, and under 5kPa at 4000rpm. (exact figures are hard to determine). It may be possible to do a forced regen once if the code is cleared, if so re-check the DP after, to see if it has dropped. Tests on the road can be done, if the laptop can be safely connected: Start live data recording, test drive, stop, stop recording, save data. This will be how the post author determined the speed & DP when the P242F error happened again.

Basically the car seems to have decided the DPF is blocked. But it could be a problem with the hoses to the DP sensor, or the sensor itself. Worth checking before condemning the DPF.

The writer of the post linked above resorted to washing the DPF with water. This does seem to give a short term improvement, but what long term effects it has, I do not know. I do not advise it except as a last resort prior to replacement.

The simpler and very expensive answer is to go to a garage, and they will replace the DPF.

 

[Vinnybhamra]

p242f which comes up as dpf ash accumulation.. So i decided to try a static regen thinking it would work but im guessing it fails because of it being in limp mode cant clear the codes

P242F is reputed to be a hard one to get rid of. This is from the Forscan Forum:

"Pull the plug of the air flow sensor, and then start the engine again, stop the engine, read again the fault codes from memory ..... Now you find 2 additional errors from the MAF sensor. Reconnect plug of the MAF sensor and clear the fault memory ...... now it is possible to erase the P242F together with 2 MAF errors, and the display will not more indicate the engine management system failure." Indeed, the trick with disconnecting of the MAF plug (mass air flow sensor) allowed me to erase the fault code P242F, turn off the fault indication on the dashboard and exit the LOS mode. However, an attempt to carry out the passive regeneration on the highway also failed. Once the vehicle speed exceeds 100 km/h, and the differential pressure in the DPF exceeds 15kPa, PCM showed again the fault code P242F and car activated the LOS mode.

(See: http://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=247 )

You can monitor the DPF DP on the driveway, at idle & at 3500 to 4000 rpm.  It should be under 1kPa at idle, and under 5kPa at 4000rpm. (exact figures are hard to determine). It may be possible to do a forced regen once if the code is cleared, if so re-check the DP after, to see if it has dropped. Tests on the road can be done, if the laptop can be safely connected: Start live data recording, test drive, stop, stop recording, save data. This will be how the post author determined the speed & DP when the P242F error happened again.

Basically the car seems to have decided the DPF is blocked. But it could be a problem with the hoses to the DP sensor, or the sensor itself. Worth checking before condemning the DPF.

The writer of the post linked above resorted to washing the DPF with water. This does seem to give a short term improvement, but what long term effects it has, I do not know. I do not advise it except as a last resort prior to replacement.

The simpler and very expensive answer is to go to a garage, and they will replace the DPF.

 

Thanks for the quick reply and i seem to be in a bit of a pickle at the moment as i really dont have the money to pay for a new filter so i guess i will have to try doing a forced regen if the above method works my only wonder is how long this would last even if it does fix the problem as i did a forced regen two days ago

[Vinnybhamra]

p242f which comes up as dpf ash accumulation.. So i decided to try a static regen thinking it would work but im guessing it fails because of it being in limp mode cant clear the codes

P242F is reputed to be a hard one to get rid of. This is from the Forscan Forum:

"Pull the plug of the air flow sensor, and then start the engine again, stop the engine, read again the fault codes from memory ..... Now you find 2 additional errors from the MAF sensor. Reconnect plug of the MAF sensor and clear the fault memory ...... now it is possible to erase the P242F together with 2 MAF errors, and the display will not more indicate the engine management system failure." Indeed, the trick with disconnecting of the MAF plug (mass air flow sensor) allowed me to erase the fault code P242F, turn off the fault indication on the dashboard and exit the LOS mode. However, an attempt to carry out the passive regeneration on the highway also failed. Once the vehicle speed exceeds 100 km/h, and the differential pressure in the DPF exceeds 15kPa, PCM showed again the fault code P242F and car activated the LOS mode.

(See: http://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=247 )

You can monitor the DPF DP on the driveway, at idle & at 3500 to 4000 rpm.  It should be under 1kPa at idle, and under 5kPa at 4000rpm. (exact figures are hard to determine). It may be possible to do a forced regen once if the code is cleared, if so re-check the DP after, to see if it has dropped. Tests on the road can be done, if the laptop can be safely connected: Start live data recording, test drive, stop, stop recording, save data. This will be how the post author determined the speed & DP when the P242F error happened again.

Basically the car seems to have decided the DPF is blocked. But it could be a problem with the hoses to the DP sensor, or the sensor itself. Worth checking before condemning the DPF.

The writer of the post linked above resorted to washing the DPF with water. This does seem to give a short term improvement, but what long term effects it has, I do not know. I do not advise it except as a last resort prior to replacement.

The simpler and very expensive answer is to go to a garage, and they will replace the DPF.

 

I just want to say thanks again for all your help, in the end i decided to go ahead and try the method above so i drove to the industrial estate opposite my house (saves waking up the neighbors at 3am while my engine is revving at 4k) so i parked up and removed the maf sensor plug etc once plugged back in cleared the codes and off goes my problem.. I didnt bother trying the passive regen just incase id have to do the process again so i went straight for the static regen and couldnt have been happier when it went all the way through. I checked the codes and nothing came back so i assumed so far was all okay. I decided then that i would also do a passive run just in case to test that it wasnt going to go back into limp mode so i set up a live recording of the three sensors relating to the dpf and i believe at idle it was around 1kps and at 4k it was above 5kpa but under 6, not sure if i should be worried about this or not. I decided to take it on a good run on the m40 in which i noticed the dp seemed quite high although i dont know what the averages are. I tried to keep it under 15kpa whilst running which in 4th gear came around 60-70mph and in 5th : 80-90mph the max i hit was 20kPa.. The dpf regen stat i dont know what unit this is measured in but the highest it reached was 27 and then the other one i measured was the one relating with distance till ash full i believe i dont know if this is a distance in km or m or even a distance at all but i had it at roughly 35000 And during my drive this did go up a little bit. I also noticed a major difference in the acceleration of the car it just seems a lot quicker than its ever been. Do you have any tips on what i should do next? As it all seems okay now but i dont want anything happening again in a few days time my main worry is the filter im hoping its fine and the car just made the assumption that it was full and the regen sorted it.