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Ford S-Max starting problems


bibbyd01
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Hi

We have an intermittent starting problem on our 2007 S-Max 2.0 TDCi. It has only started about 2 months ago, and was only happening once or twice a week, but with the colder weather setting in the problem ha gotten a lot worse in the last week. T describe the problem, the engine turns over but doesn't seem to fire. Sometimes it will work on the first try, sometimes the tenth try. It doesn't seem to matter if the car has been sat overnight or we've just driven for an hour before trying to start it. Also, when it's running it appears to be fine. There's no excessive smoke at all coming from the car either when it's started. 

Following another post, I removed the throttle body, gave it a good clean and made sure that the butterfly valve was open when trying to start the car. We also had a new battery 18 months ago, although sometimes it seems sluggish when turning the car over. We had an injector issue last year, so they were all tested and one was replaced, so hopefully that's not the problem either.

I was going to change the glowplugs, but no faults are being displayed, and as it's happening when the engine is still hot my assumption is this isn't the problem.

Any other likely caused before i book in an expensive tests?

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17 hours ago, bibbyd01 said:

sometimes it seems sluggish when turning the car over.

If the failing to start links with the slow cranking, then it could be the starter motor solenoid. These can go a bit intermittent, sometimes making good contact, sometimes not. In theory it is possible to change the solenoid alone, I manged to do this on mine. But it is hard to locate the right part, and most garages will only replace the whole motor assembly for warranty reasons.

Bad glowplugs may not light any warning light. On many of these cars, there is no current monitoring on the glowplug supply, just a simple voltage check that the relay is on. If the plugs are working, you should see quite an appreciable drop in battery volts, usually to below 11v, while the plugs are on, rising back to 12v when the plugs time out.

After that, fuel problems are the next suspect. Has the fuel filter been changed recently, and check there are no leaks in the fuel pipes around the filter, or in the filter housing. Fuel will not come out of these leaks (if it is anything like the Focus), rather air will get in. On many Ford diesels, there is no tank mounted fuel pump. Air in the fuel will badly affect starting.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have the same problem with my smax, just like you its been happening for the last 2-3 months and it's got to the point where I'm praying it will fire up when I put the key in. Even when it's been running and the engine is warm doesn't make a difference.

 last week when it happened I spent ages trying to start it to no avail and ended up having to call the RAC out (yes I nearly flattened the battery so I attached the booster pack from work and "immobiliser active" came up on the dash and it wouldn't even turn over) and ***** typical he turned up disconected the battery for a few mins so it would reset the immobiliser attached his jump leads, turned the key and it fired straight up, I hung my head in shame..... he tested the battery and said it was in good condition just needed to run it for 30 mins to charge it up.

 I asked about the glow plugs as there isn't a glowplug light on my dash so I just wait for the display to go through the motions which is about 5-6 seconds but he said engines nowadays will still eventually start even if they were knackered but I have tested them and there working fine.

When I got in the car this morning I tried starting it 4 times and the most I got was it fire up for a second and then die so I let the car roll forward a few meters and tried a bumpstart , it didn't work and i didnt expect it to but I turned the ignition off and straight on and she fired straight up so could it be a crank sensor? 

I'm at a bit of a loss at the moment with this problem as I've had a diagnostic check and it didn't bring any faults up

Did you manage to find out what was causing your problems?

Regards

Sean

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On 09/02/2017 at 7:02 PM, 16vfoxy01 said:

could it be a crank sensor? 

I'm at a bit of a loss at the moment with this problem as I've had a diagnostic check and it didn't bring any faults up

From your description it certainly sounds more like an intermittent electrical contact or sensor problem, than air in the fuel lines.

Failed crank sensor will usually put up a diagnostic code (DTC). But maybe during starting this does not apply, it is all so software dependant.

What system was used for the diagnostic check? Some faults, like glowplug relay or fuse, can be missed by basic OBD2 scanners.

I would double check that the glowpugs are powered up prior to starting. These engines will normally fire without plugs, but it is also a check that the ECU is properly powered up. Then I would run a good diagnostic check, like Forscan, immediately after a failed start.

Then I would go back to testing for air in the fuel supply, before splashing out money on crank sensors or other bits. Again, a system like Forscan can actually monitor the rise in fuel rail pressure as the engine starts. The picture below is my car starting up. The key point is that the cranking gets to about 200rpm, and the fuel pressure to about 200Bar (20,000kPa), then it fires up. Air in the fuel line could prevent the rise in fuel pressure.

Start2a.PNG

(If you want more info on how to get this, ask here!)

On 18/01/2017 at 10:48 PM, bibbyd01 said:

Any other likely caused before i book in an expensive tests?

Any news or results?

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Took her to the garage today and they ran a full diagnostic check and glow plugs, fuel pressure were spot on it picked up no codes or faults so they started with the fuel filter as they said they have had a bad batch of filters recently?( bearing in mind it only had a service in December) and there were a few tiny specks of metal in the bottom of the pot. So I'm taking it back tomorrow for fuel tank and lines flushing out and the sediment and swarf cleaning out of the fuel filter pot to the take it back in 6 weeks to check said pot again to see if anymore appears. 

Worst case scenario is a new fuel pump and injectors

 

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  • 2 years later...

I realise this is an old post but thought I'd add my experience anyway, I've just bought a 2007 Ford smax 2.0 tdci and after a couple of weeks had this intermittent starting problem, having read all the posts I came to my own conclusion that it was being starved of fuel, so rather than spend endless amounts of money trying to find the culprit I started to pump the accelerator 5 or 6 times before starting the engine and hey presto touch wood I haven't had a problem since.

Hope this helps 

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  • 1 year later...

 

On 1/28/2020 at 10:21 PM, Dave neale said:

I realise this is an old post but thought I'd add my experience anyway, I've just bought a 2007 Ford smax 2.0 tdci and after a couple of weeks had this intermittent starting problem, having read all the posts I came to my own conclusion that it was being starved of fuel, so rather than spend endless amounts of money trying to find the culprit I started to pump the accelerator 5 or 6 times before starting the engine and hey presto touch wood I haven't had a problem since.

Hope this helps 

Dave Neale - thanks for your post. Had the same problem - persistently not starting after being erratic then 5 accelerator pumps before ignition and starts first time.

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2008 1.8tdci s-max,started hearing a wooshing noise for a few days then it died on me as I entered a roundabout,wouldn’t fire up straight away but did eventually,did the same a couple of times after that & now it won’t fire up at all.

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6 hours ago, Eppsl1987 said:

2008 1.8tdci s-max,started hearing a wooshing noise for a few days then it died on me as I entered a roundabout,wouldn’t fire up straight away but did eventually,did the same a couple of times after that & now it won’t fire up at all.

Basically you need to get a good code reader on it. There are loads of causes for failing to start, the most common one matching your description is a leak in the fuel system allowing air in. But there are also many electrical failures that will cause it, and can be intermittent to start with. Error codes (DTCs) would show most electrical faults up. And will usually show fuel problems up.

The whooshing noise is usually a split in a turbo hose, especially if it happens when the engine is working quite hard, with the turbo boosting the intake pressure. I can not see any clear link between this and failure to start. When starting there is no turbo pressure, so air hose leaks are not important. Maybe if a hose or pipe had parted completely, then the MAF would not see any flow, but I am not convinced that the ECU uses the MAF during cranking, its flow would be too low to measure reliably. A simple but thorough inspection of the big hoses & pipes from turbo, via intercooler, to inlet manifold is the way to diagnose this problem.

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  • 11 months later...

Had intermittent starting problems with my 2009 2ltr dti Titainiam. Been back and forth to garage for about a year. Recent engine code P00069 (map sensor problem) garage took it apart and said it was dirty and they could clean and refit or fit new. I got them to fit new in hope it would solve the starting problem. Picked up car, started after three attempts. Then got home a tried several times again. It still took several attempts! Rang garage but they suggested taking it to a main dealer for a diagnostic. I thought I’d try the spare key. Did the stage 1-2 trick in the ignition 4 times to set up the key with the car. Hey presto it worked the car started 1st time on several attempts. I had tried this with the other key but it didn’t cure the starting problem! Anyone else had this, how can I get the other key set up to work every time as well?

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  • 6 months later...

Hello, 

I have starting problem with my S-max, it's with TXWA engine and powershift gearbox with keyless entry and starting. In the morning its starts great it doesn't matter if its warm or cold, but with cold weather comes out blue smoke for few seconds. But after first start the problem begins, sometime it just cranks and im hearing grinding sound but it isnt starting. After few attempts it starts, but when it starts i can hear like starter grinds. Few days ago it started jerking a little bit after first start when accelerating after few km jerking goes away and car drives normally but starting problem remains. Fuel filter is new, doesnt seem to have air in fuel, no fault codes in ECM. Only fault code what i can associate with fault code is P1571-62 brake pedal switch signal compare faulty in immo. 

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Checked fuel lines again, small air bubbles in fuel line and sometimes comes bigger bubbles when idling. No leaks detected. What can cause air to fuel line? 

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7 hours ago, Produkty said:

Checked fuel lines again, small air bubbles in fuel line and sometimes comes bigger bubbles when idling. No leaks detected. What can cause air to fuel line? 

You won't see any fuel leaks from the fuel lines. They are almost always under some degree of suction, there is no lift pump in the tank. So any cracks in the pipes, leaky fittings of leaks in the filter housing can cause bubbles. They let air in, not fuel out.

It would be possible for large bubbles to cause jerking, but not very common. Usually leaks in fuel pipes just cause starting problems. Fuel pressure problems caused by air ingress, big enough to cause jerking, should generate a fuel related DTC.

Odd noises from the starter motor sounds like a different problem altogether. For most garages, starter motors are not worth repairing, they will just replace them. For a keen DIY owner, dismantling a motor, then cleaning and greasing it might be a possibility. I did once mange to replace just the solenoid unit on mine, but it took a lot of work & searching!

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The old school way of checking if a suspect joint is letting in air was to smear it with Vaseline to form a temporary seal and see if the problem went away.

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  • 10 months later...

Hi all I have a 2011 2.2 TDCI auto box Smax with push button start the engine won’t crank I have zero faults showing on the dash. I’ve checked all fuses and relays and am able to start the car when I hotwire the starter relay 30/87 even after this I still have no faults showing.
any help or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

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20 minutes ago, FoMoCo1 said:

auto box

Have you checked that the 'Park' switch is working and that the PCM knows the gearbox is in the park position ?

If you use the software FORScan you will be able to monitor things like the Brake pedal switch and the gearbox position sensors.

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The gearbox is in park and I can select RN and D when the ignition is on and the brake lights are working I had a look but can’t see an easy switch to replace or break behind the pedal is seems to be behind the dash?

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2 hours ago, FoMoCo1 said:

The gearbox is in park and I can select RN and D when the ignition is on

Think you are missing the point. I don't doubt that the gearbox actually is in Park, and that you can also select Drive or Reverse, but unless the sensors/switches that detect the park position are actually working then the start inhibit relay will not close and you won't be able to engage the starter motor. The same applies for the brake pedal switch. The switch controlling the brake lights is not usually the same one that detects that you are holding down the brake pedal to allow the starter to operate.

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Thanks unofix but my pedal switch’s are working as the message press brake to start disappears when the brake is pressed. + I think I have an issue with a negative connection from the starter relay in the fuse box the relay is clicking but when my mechanic put his wand on the terminals 1 was live 1 was switch live/earth and 1 was earth/negative assuming the other that had no signal is another earth/negative? 
 

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  • 5 months later...
On 3/30/2022 at 4:04 PM, Mike R Smith said:

Had intermittent starting problems with my 2009 2ltr dti Titainiam. Been back and forth to garage for about a year. Recent engine code P00069 (map sensor problem) garage took it apart and said it was dirty and they could clean and refit or fit new. I got them to fit new in hope it would solve the starting problem. Picked up car, started after three attempts. Then got home a tried several times again. It still took several attempts! Rang garage but they suggested taking it to a main dealer for a diagnostic. I thought I’d try the spare key. Did the stage 1-2 trick in the ignition 4 times to set up the key with the car. Hey presto it worked the car started 1st time on several attempts. I had tried this with the other key but it didn’t cure the starting problem! Anyone else had this, how can I get the other key set up to work every time as well?

Hi, can you explain what the 'Stage 1-2 trick" is please?

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