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Peugeot buying Vauxhall ?


Bob_thebaldie
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Ok as of just they have struck a deal as from 6.30 on BBC news flash.

So its been done we now have to look forward to a weird car worse than it already is.

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Well, this should be interesting.  Not to see what cars come out of the deal, as I'd never look twice at them anyway, but to see how long jobs remain in the UK!

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In the broader sense, don't the those two words - French and reliability - in the same sentence, seem to raise questions?

I got shot of my impulse buy of a Peugeot 207 after only having it for 2 months last September, I have never come across such a pile of junk in all my 60 years of motoring.

I had a Vauxhall Velox in 1963 which ran as sweet as a sewing machine, followed by a Cresta, Nova, Cavalier, 3 Astra's, a Vectra and a Corsa which I still have.

The only repair to the Corsa so far is a new camshaft cover gasket. so I cannot fault Vauxhalls.

A sad day indeed for Vauxhall and I hang my head in shame for the sale to the Frogs.  

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this being discussed on the Jeremy vine show now i would listen to something else if i had control of whats on the radio lol

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10 hours ago, Devonboy said:

In the broader sense, don't the those two words - French and reliability - in the same sentence, seem to raise questions?

I got shot of my impulse buy of a Peugeot 207 after only having it for 2 months last September, I have never come across such a pile of junk in all my 60 years of motoring.

I had a Vauxhall Velox in 1963 which ran as sweet as a sewing machine, followed by a Cresta, Nova, Cavalier, 3 Astra's, a Vectra and a Corsa which I still have.

The only repair to the Corsa so far is a new camshaft cover gasket. so I cannot fault Vauxhalls.

A sad day indeed for Vauxhall and I hang my head in shame for the sale to the Frogs.  

Agree, after having two PSA group cars in the family which were both utter junk, I will never go near a PSA (or French) car again.

I suspect what PSA are trying to do are effectively to buy out the competition, and kill the Vauxhall brand. Vauxhall and PSA are in the same price category, so they will increase their market share. They will inevitably shut down the UK based plants after a couple of years or so.

Sad news indeed.

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4 hours ago, Incontro said:

 

Agree, after having two PSA group cars in the family which were both utter junk, I will never go near a PSA (or French) car again.

I suspect what PSA are trying to do are effectively to buy out the competition, and kill the Vauxhall brand. Vauxhall and PSA are in the same price category, so they will increase their market share. They will inevitably shut down the UK based plants after a couple of years or so.

Sad news indeed.

My thoughts exactly.

It is sad also that French cars became so unreliable, which they undoubtedly have.  There was a time when Peugeots were some of the toughest cars and were actually synonymous with ruggedness and reliability.  They were still on par with Fords in terms of reliability throughout the 80s and 90s, but after the turn of the millennium they were just budget quality cars at a mid-range price.  I don't think it had anything to do with it, but once they pulled out of the US market they started the decline, so perhaps that was the "turning point", where they just gave up all hope of making decent vehicles.

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Considering Peugeot closed both the Coventry factories a good number of years ago both the Vauxhall plants will go also. They just won't keep them in the UK long term. Heard a discussion about it saying not likely short term but long term most likely. It will be just another nail in the coffin of the UK car industry.

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There have been suggestions that part of the reason for the takeover is for PSA to get their hands on the 'German' Opel and 'British' Vauxhall brands.  Basically, these will be far more marketable in the US and Far East (for example, MG's sell well in Singapore I believe despite being made in China these days due to a perception of British-ness), and even Europe.  French cars don't have the best of reputations outside of France, and PSA desperately need to expand beyond their traditional home market to service in an increasingly global industry.

While it looks like business will continue as normal at Vauxhall for now, I suspect that unless the government can secure some sort of advantageous agreement with the EU in regard to automotive imports and exports (bare in mind most of the components for both the Astra and Vivaro are imported from the EU, and much of the production is exported back), or outright subsidise the operation, we will see a scaling back of production.  Obviously building cars destined for the UK market in the UK would make sense outside of the EU trade area (especially if parts can be sourced locally - but how would this add to overall cost through lower economies of scale?), but I don't see how so much capacity would be needed given the amount currently exported (and lets face it, you can only produce so many different models in one factory).  PSA already have too much capacity, and they are buying (or rather they are taking on - the detail of the deal reveals they are getting something of a bargain with GM taking a big financial hit) an operation which also has too much capacity.  Something will have to give.  There could of course be scope for Peugeot group cars to improve using Opel technology and methods, I suppose much depends on what the deal covers and what GM technology and research PSA will get their hands on.  

With the French government being the largest shareholder in PSA, and the German government (local and national) likely to fight any significant job cuts (as they have with Opel in the past) its hard to see the UK not coming out worse off, whatever happens with Brexit.  Opel do have factories elsewhere of course (Poland and Spain spring to mind), so there could be cuts there as well.  The Astra J is made in at least 2 other factories from the top of my head (in Germany and Poland), so there could be scope to scale back or shut down one of those factories.  Somehow though I doubt that the Polish operation will be cut back given the lower cost of producing vehicles there compared to Germany and the UK for example.   Likewise with Luton, Peugeot have their own vans (produced in various locations, in joint-ventures with Fiat) and surely Renault-Nissan wont be so keen on Vauxhall building their vans at Luton (or developing new designs in cooperation with them) in the longer term if they are owned by their arch-rival?  The challenge has been set that the UK has to prove its worth and be more productive - I hope for all involved they can convince the powers that be.  Vauxhall/Opel have just started to get their act together in my opinion, I hope this takeover doesn't see build quality in particular go backwards in the quest to reduce costs.  There is huge potential to reduce costs through the use of common platforms and parts of course, hopefully it wont be a case of selecting the cheapest rather than the most suitable overall!

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You watch all talk and jobs will start going and always starts at the hard working trying to make a living ''shop floor people''.

Peugeot is so bad but still won the 2016 best vehicle with the 3008 suv.

I wouldn't say my old 2009 corsa D was not reliable just stupid things kept going wrong for 1 example petrol gauge problem.

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I had a C4 which super reliable, the only thing I had to change that wasn't through it wearing out was a coil pack..

PSA are the masters at cost cutting though, the conversion from lhd to rhd was done cheaply, the fuse box that was originally under the steering wheel  remained in the same place so it took 1/2 the glove box space up and the key slot in the door handle remained in the left hand side too..

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12 hours ago, Commencal24 said:

I had a C4 which super reliable, the only thing I had to change that wasn't through it wearing out was a coil pack..

PSA are the masters at cost cutting though, the conversion from lhd to rhd was done cheaply, the fuse box that was originally under the steering wheel  remained in the same place so it took 1/2 the glove box space up and the key slot in the door handle remained in the left hand side too..

Did it have the PSA RHD offset driving position as well as a result?  I know it used to be a big issue on their vehicles, just interested if it is still the case.  

The head of PSA was repeating his comments that if a plant is the most efficient it would be stupid to close it down today.  He also seems to be quite blatantly calling for UK government support.  Its only a matter of time before BMW, Honda, Jaguar Land Rover, etc (and perhaps Ford?) follow Nissan's lead I'd say!  PSA seem to be making much of the potential to establish a UK supply chain.  One problem with that being there is already a shortage of engineers, machine operators, etc with the necessary skills (hence the need to employ EU nationals - they aren't just picking fruit).  Its hard to supply components when there aren't enough people with the skills to make them.  Its time the government started to properly invest in the engineering and manufacturing sectors, particularly in education and incentivising young people to follow a career path in engineering/manufacturing.  It always strikes me how much we look down on those working in engineering and manufacturing in education in this country compared to others in Europe such as Germany, France, or Poland.  Unfortunately our young people would rather study subjects such as the history of art or media studies at university than engineering or take an apprenticeship (theres only so much you can learn in books).  Demands for more efficiency are unlikely to see any significant wage increases either, which is hardly an incentive for people to enter the sector!  Of course, even if we have the people to manufacture all of these components, we'll still need to be able to do it cheap enough to compete with the other manufacturing locations across Europe.  It could be a very 'interesting' few years for the European car industry, and in the UK in particular.

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14 hours ago, Commencal24 said:

I had a C4 which super reliable, the only thing I had to change that wasn't through it wearing out was a coil pack..

PSA are the masters at cost cutting though, the conversion from lhd to rhd was done cheaply, the fuse box that was originally under the steering wheel  remained in the same place so it took 1/2 the glove box space up and the key slot in the door handle remained in the left hand side too..

On several of their models they didn't even bother swapping the wipers over from LHD to RHD either! :laugh: Still decent cars though, and in the last few years they have begun to return to their prime in the late 80s/90s. This can be seen with the new 3008 which has gone to the top of the class already and has over 4000 UK orders alone.

Whilst the future of the Vauxhall plants here are uncertain, we've still got them for the next few years and by then Brexit will have been dealt with and the future of the UK's economy will be a lot clearer. I could well see the Luton plant going due to it being old and unable to build the high roofline Vivaro's due to limited ceiling height! The Ellesmere plant seems to have more of a chance though, the Astra is a very popular car and the facility is apparently one of the most efficient in Europe.

Interesting times...

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On 07/03/2017 at 9:39 PM, chrisroberson99 said:

On several of their models they didn't even bother swapping the wipers over from LHD to RHD either! :laugh: Still decent cars though, and in the last few years they have begun to return to their prime in the late 80s/90s. This can be seen with the new 3008 which has gone to the top of the class already and has over 4000 UK orders alone.

Whilst the future of the Vauxhall plants here are uncertain, we've still got them for the next few years and by then Brexit will have been dealt with and the future of the UK's economy will be a lot clearer. I could well see the Luton plant going due to it being old and unable to build the high roofline Vivaro's due to limited ceiling height! The Ellesmere plant seems to have more of a chance though, the Astra is a very popular car and the facility is apparently one of the most efficient in Europe.

Interesting times...

Yes, I remember them having odd wipers in the past! Must say I agree regarding Luton - was there not talk of it closing a few years ago anyway before the current contract was awarded?  It would make much more sense to concentrate group van production together, especially if Renault do not renew their production agreement.  So far as Ellesmere Port goes, it all depends on the supply chain I suppose!  At least guarantees seem to be in place for the short term.

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