Ecoboost Sudden death at 40K miles - Degas hose

[BlueHaddock]

I'm hoping to get some advice on this £4,354.05 problem but first I need to tell the story !

I bought this 2013 Focus titanium 1L Ecoboost 2 years ago and had been very happy with it up until April when it suddenly lost power on the motorway with no instrument warning lights. Nothing much to see except a bit of steam and plenty of coolant splashed around the engine compartment. I was far away from home, visiting a relative in hospital in the West Midlands and I had to stay to make arrangements for them. Unfortunately I had limited internet access (just a small phone) so had no idea about these ecoboost engines being equipped with defective degas coolant hoses.

I booked the car into a small independent garage near Cradley Heath railway station, returned home (North Yorkshire) and then went on holiday abroad a few days later.

 

When I finally found out about the degas hose problem I contacted Ford who at first dismissed any notion of responsibility since I'd taken the car to a non-Ford dealer to get it repaired. But they gave me a reference number to pursue the case further once the repairs were complete, which they now are having paid £4,354.05 (reconditioned engine and turbocharger from Ford, other bits, labour & VAT). 

 

So any advice on the following would be a real help:

1. How do I deal with the issue of not having used a Ford dealer? 
   I found an independent garage, SMB Autocentre, that sounded competent, was well reviewed (on Motor Ombudsman site) and was near a railway station for ease of travel. They repaired the car with Ford parts and a reconditioned engine from Ford. An important point here is that I'd chosen this garage weeks before I discovered this was a preexisting problem with many ecoboost engines Frankly I don't see how my choice of repair garage detracts from Ford's responsibility for installing defective coolant hoses in the first place.
2. Does anyone know of any car owners taking legal action against Ford for this same problem?
3. Any useful tips in getting some cooperation from Ford?
   As yet I haven't got back to Ford with list of final repair costs. For all I know they might be quite helpful, I just want to be prepared really.

Thanks in advance for any help,

Nick

 

[DJ_Andy_M]

Was your car still under warranty when this problem occurred? Being a 2013, and you buying it in 2015 I'd say yes.

Ford are very right in there stand on this because it would have been under warranty and they could and would have probably fixed it under that at a Ford dealer/garage, but because another non-Ford approved garage has done the work they cannot prove or disprove an issue in the first place and therefore the latest problem could have been caused by the garage.

[JONATHAN_11_80]

You will no chance of getting any help from ford financially you should have taken the car to ford in the first place.  I think they would have contributed as the degas pipe replacement was part of the recall.

[Freddy42]

How can I find out if my car was subject to this recall before I bought it in 2016?

[kingsblue]

8 minutes ago, Freddy42 said:

How can I find out if my car was subject to this recall before I bought it in 2016?

Go the the ford etis website http://www.etis.ford.com, click on the vehicle tab, put in your reg number and it should say if your car is subject to a recall or google degas hose and you should compare the image fitted to your car.

[BlueHaddock]

10 hours ago, DJ_Andy_M said:

Was your car still under warranty when this problem occurred? Being a 2013, and you buying it in 2015 I'd say yes.

Ford are very right in there stand on this because it would have been under warranty and they could and would have probably fixed it under that at a Ford dealer/garage, but because another non-Ford approved garage has done the work they cannot prove or disprove an issue in the first place and therefore the latest problem could have been caused by the garage.

Thanks for your comments Andy.

Not under warranty since problem occurred 4 years after first registration of vehicle. Interesting point you make about possible difficulty proving the coolant hose was defective when I hadn't taken it to a Ford dealer/garage.

I suppose I only have 'strong' circumstantial evidence of a chain of events. I can prove the car was working on Saturday night since, by amazing coincidence, we met two separate lots of people we know from the same Harrogate cycling club in Trowel services on the M1 about 40mins before the 'sudden death' of engine on the M42. The recovery van/transporter can verify the breakdown (but not the cause), a mobile mechanic called out on Sunday morning can verify the coolant leak and absence of engine compression (stuck his ear to oil filler with starter motor turning). Finally a record of car being transported on Monday to a reputable and competent garage that did the full diagnosis and repair. And of course I've still got the busted degas hose (shown in picture) with part numbers which presumably prove it's from the original 'doomed to fail and made in hell' batch. I'm betting that the melted/split bit in the picture is in exactly the same place as the many other ecoboost overheats Ford will have examined. 

Of course I didn't have the opportunity to do lengthy internet research on whether the car manufacturer had installed dodgy kit - If I had then I'd have got it right round to Ford in a jiffy.

I'll let you know how Ford handle this

[JW1982]

Ford has very strict warranty/goodwill regulations. First the car must have been serviced by a Ford dealer and the service schedule must have been followed completely. If the prescribed requirements are not met Ford will reject any warranty/goodwill apllication. Next to this all warranty/goodwill repairs can only be performed by a Ford dealer. Ford will not pay for a repair performed by a non Ford dealer. In this case I personally doubt that Ford will pay for anything. If you still want to try you need very good evidence. You need at least all of the damaged parts including the old engine. You need to give Ford the possibility to inspect the affected parts.  

 

In this case You have to be 100% sure that the car was affected by the recall. Only certain production badges of the degas hose are affected and recalled. The picture definitely shows the old type of degas hose. Whether there is a recall or not can be checked on the Ford Etis website. If Etis does not show an active recall it will be very difficult to prove anything. 

Even if there is an active recall the repair should have been performed long ago. This recall was launched in 2014. All known owners of affected vehicles received a letter about the recall. Unfortunately there are also owners that not received the recall letter. For example because of change of ownership (in which case the previous owner receives the letter). In these cases the recall should still have been performed during the next scheduled service at a Ford dealer. If the car was serviced by a non Ford dealer this prevented Ford from performing the recall. 

European law describes that services can also be performed by non dealers without voiding the warranty. However all warranty regulations of the manufacturer must be met. Every car manufacturer has very strict warranty rules. An independent repair facility has to respect these regulations otherwise the warranty will be voided. these regulations and the service schedule of every Ford model can be downloaded at the Ford Etis website. 

 

In my opinion you voided every possible form of goodwill from Ford by having the engine replaced by a non Ford dealer. 

 

 

[BlueHaddock]

28 minutes ago, JW1982 said:

Ford has very strict warranty/goodwill regulations. 

In my opinion you voided every possible form of goodwill from Ford by having the engine replaced by a non Ford dealer. [selective quote]

 

 

JW, Thanks for the informative comments which help clarify the mind on these issues.  You may be right but I will still argue with Ford that I haven't infringed the 'spirit' of their goodwill regulations since;

1. There is enough proof that the cause of the problem was their defective degas hose.
   The Ford etis site you mention confirms my car has an outstanding Degas Hose replacement issue. There are two different mechanics who can verify that the engine damage was consistent an overheat issue. I still have the Degas Hose which I presume has failed in exactly the same way as all the other degas hoses that Ford have examined. 
2. The garage I used is competent
3. The reconditioned engine was supplied by Ford.
   The old engine had to go back to them. So you make a good point; I'll get onto them sooner rather than later to get them to check that engine over.
   Same applies to the turbocharger too.

I'll let you know how things go with Ford.

[Sooty180]

If anyone here has any issues, there is an extremely good Facebook group that's been set up specifically for the problem, called:

 

"Ford Focus EcoBoost 1.0L Turbo Zetec Faulty Coolant Pipe Engine Head Gasket"

 

Bit of a mouthful, but I guess they did that so it would catch people searching for coolant related info. There's lots of good info and details of how to go about claiming for a new engine etc, who to write to, what details to put in the email, etcetera.

 

Surprised it hasn't made it to BBC Watchdog yet or something similar! They (Ford) know about it but as ever are reluctant to / won't admit there's an issue with the EcoBoost cooling system.

 

Good luck, Hope this helps someone!

 

https://www.facebook...ef=group_header

[Phil21185]

I wonder if we will ever know the outcome?

[Russ]

On 01/08/2017 at 7:40 AM, Sooty180 said:

If anyone here has any issues, there is an extremely good Facebook group that's been set up specifically for the problem, called:

 

"Ford Focus EcoBoost 1.0L Turbo Zetec Faulty Coolant Pipe Engine Head Gasket"

 

Bit of a mouthful, but I guess they did that so it would catch people searching for coolant related info. There's lots of good info and details of how to go about claiming for a new engine etc, who to write to, what details to put in the email, etcetera.

 

Surprised it hasn't made it to BBC Watchdog yet or something similar! They (Ford) know about it but as ever are reluctant to / won't admit there's an issue with the EcoBoost cooling system.

 

Good luck, Hope this helps someone!

 

https://www.facebook...ef=group_header

The owner of that page, Louise O’Riordan has since managed to get AutoExpress to run an article about the problem using ecoboost owners information (reg/mileage/photos etc) which is due to run in November’s Issue I think. The Facebook list of damaged cars is growing daily! 

[FatHead1979]

2 hours ago, Russ said:

The owner of that page, Louise O’Riordan has since managed to get AutoExpress to run an article about the problem using ecoboost owners information (reg/mileage/photos etc) which is due to run in November’s Issue I think. The Facebook list of damaged cars is growing daily! 

GOOD...hopefully a bit of a kick in the plums will teach Ford to act with some decency towards its customers.

[Phil21185]

You know when companies are handed massive fines for misconduct or malpractice, how much of those millions finds its way back to the people who have been screwed over?

[ellingtj]

Thread revival, just received the recall for our cmax today. I found this thread and thought I would add a comment. Many were stating there was no chance of refund etc for this guy, but under a recall things work differently from a normal warranty claim, this is some text included in the ford dealer documentation, this is from the US text but I imagine the UK would echo it:

OWNER REFUNDS

• This safety recall must still be performed, even if the owner has paid for a previous repair. Claiming a refund will not close the recall on the vehicle. 
• Ford Motor Company is offering a refund for owner-paid repairs covered by this recall if the repair was performed prior to the date indicated in the reimbursement plan, which is posted with this bulletin. Owners are directed to seek reimbursement through authorized dealers or, at their option, directly through Ford Motor Company at P.O. Box 6251, Dearborn, MI 481216251.
• Dealers are also pre-approved to refund owner-paid emergencyrepairs that were performed away from an authorized servicing dealer after the end date specified in the reimbursement plan. Non-covered repairs, or those judged by Ford to be excessive, will not be reimbursed.
• Refunds will only be provided for the cost associated with an engine coolant leak or overheat.

[Jethro_Tull]

You haven't shown Ford any goodwill by using their dealer network, they will not show you any goodwill in return. That is the bottom line.

As a point of morality, why do you think its OK to save your self a few quid by getting the car maintained at an independent, but then go running back to Ford when there's a problem?  Smacks of cake and eat it to me.  You've now discovered - the hard way at that - why dealer servicing costs more.

Interesting that the AutoExpress exclusive expose made no difference.

[Celticfan]

I had the same issue with the degas hose on my 2013 Zetec S in November 2016. My car just suddenly stopped one day. As I realised that the engine was dead I called Ford and booked it in and expected a big bill.

When I called after a couple of days to check they said that a new engine was on order and they replaced the engine under warranty (which only had a week or two to run.)

My car has NEVER been serviced by Ford.

 

 

[Phil21185]

On 3/22/2018 at 10:22 AM, Jethro_Tull said:

You haven't shown Ford any goodwill by using their dealer network, they will not show you any goodwill in return. That is the bottom line.

As a point of morality, why do you think its OK to save your self a few quid by getting the car maintained at an independent, but then go running back to Ford when there's a problem?  Smacks of cake and eat it to me.  You've now discovered - the hard way at that - why dealer servicing costs more.

Interesting that the AutoExpress exclusive expose made no difference.

Sorry but I can't agree here. OP showed goodwill by buying the damn car in the first place - why should he be expected to pay a higher cost for maintenance, when let's face it all that does is cover the dealership's larger overheads, not necessarily increase the quality of any work done, to ensure that the car they purchased in good faith is going to last a reasonably expected amount of time. 

The work was done (ostensibly to the layman) by a qualified professional, not by Uncle Eric.

Why can he go running back to Ford? Well if you had a structural problem with your new build house, after paying local builder to make safe, would you expect the original builder to turn around and say "not my problem, mate, should have got me to fix it in the first place" or would you have expected a better standard of work from the professional in the first place?

People are far too ready to shrug and say "ah well that's what you get" after getting shafted and companies increasingly think that it's ok to do that as a result.

[biff55]

i'm sure its covered in EU consumer law that a car owner cannot be penalised by the manufacturer for subsequent warranty / recall / design fault repairs because the owner used another third party garage sometime during the vehicals life. 

Its simply a restriction of a persons right to seek competitive services from other businesses and prevents  manufacturers from creating a captive market where the customer can only use their services and no-one else. ( this may sound familiar to apple product owners.... 😉

now of course this may not be applicable to any of the tales in this thread but i thought i'd throw it in the thread anyway :-)