Headlight bulb upgrade

[Tommo17]

Another question again. Looking at changing my bulbs that came standard in my titanium not interested in the hassle of HIds. Just don’t seam to get good visablity anything I can do. Seen these any input from anyone

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/132128047152 

[Stoney871]

Osram Nightbreakers unlimited or Osram cool blue intense are pretty good.

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[Stoney871]

Philips extreme vision are quite decent as well.

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[Tommo17]

Thanks I’ll look them and give them a try

[Phil21185]

On 28/09/2017 at 3:51 AM, Stoney871 said:

Philips extreme vision are quite decent as well.

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Are they and the night breakers road legal, Clive?

I've been under the impression that anything above 4300k is a trip into naughtytown. 

I'd dearly love to get some hyper blues like Keifer has got so that they match my DRLs better but don't want the hassle of swapping them at mot...

[Stoney871]

[Dee_82]

12 hours ago, Phil21185 said:

Are they and the night breakers road legal, Clive?

I've been under the impression that anything above 4300k is a trip into naughtytown. 

I'd dearly love to get some hyper blues like Keifer has got so that they match my DRLs better but don't want the hassle of swapping them at mot...

I don't think the temperature was a problem, correct me if I'm wrong but theres nothing wrong with using fake xenon lights so long as the wattage is low (and has correct pattern) since all fake xenons use a filter to remove some of the yellow light, which should give you a clue as to where I'm going with this, it will never be brighter than a standard bulb. UNLESS, they use higher wattage bulbs, in which case your definitely being a bit naughty! 

But also remember, Not only will you probably be dazzling folk in front of you but also you will be drawing more current through a wiring harness that wasn't designed to take that amount of power and if your using reflectors, you will be pumping out more light than it was designed to reflect which might introduce a fair amount of scatter.

All halogen bulbs have to balance the filtering of light with the desired amount of light output and colour, they become illegal to use on the road when the wattage is bumped up to compensate for the filtered light out put.

Also, white light an i mean around the 5500 - 6000 range is utterly pish for seeing anything anyway.  Its the same for folk who get 6000K HIDs then wonder why the output appears worse than their old halogens.  Light absorption plays a bit part what you see but more importantly is wave length, the closer to Blue you get from red the shorter the wave length is which can scatter a lot more and not reflect back as well.  (which is partly why we have red fog lights) obviously red light only reflects back red though which is a bit crap for seeing anything else.  Yellow (@4500k) has the best balance for being able to see what is in front of you and scattering the least amount of light whilst doing it. as you push through 5000 to 6000 the scattering becomes a lot worse which is why it can look great if you stand in front of them but on the road they are less effective then regular halogens.

 

Its pretty interesting stuff and its also why most OEM Xenons are less that 5000k

 

 

[Phil21185]

16 hours ago, Stoney871 said:

....I see.

 

[Phil21185]

3 hours ago, Dee_82 said:

I don't think the temperature was a problem, correct me if I'm wrong but theres nothing wrong with using fake xenon lights so long as the wattage is low (and has correct pattern) since all fake xenons use a filter to remove some of the yellow light, which should give you a clue as to where I'm going with this, it will never be brighter than a standard bulb. UNLESS, they use higher wattage bulbs, in which case your definitely being a bit naughty! 

But also remember, Not only will you probably be dazzling folk in front of you but also you will be drawing more current through a wiring harness that wasn't designed to take that amount of power and if your using reflectors, you will be pumping out more light than it was designed to reflect which might introduce a fair amount of scatter.

All halogen bulbs have to balance the filtering of light with the desired amount of light output and colour, they become illegal to use on the road when the wattage is bumped up to compensate for the filtered light out put.

Also, white light an i mean around the 5500 - 6000 range is utterly pish for seeing anything anyway.  Its the same for folk who get 6000K HIDs then wonder why the output appears worse than their old halogens.  Light absorption plays a bit part what you see but more importantly is wave length, the closer to Blue you get from red the shorter the wave length is which can scatter a lot more and not reflect back as well.  (which is partly why we have red fog lights) obviously red light only reflects back red though which is a bit crap for seeing anything else.  Yellow (@4500k) has the best balance for being able to see what is in front of you and scattering the least amount of light whilst doing it. as you push through 5000 to 6000 the scattering becomes a lot worse which is why it can look great if you stand in front of them but on the road they are less effective then regular halogens.

 

Its pretty interesting stuff and its also why most OEM Xenons are less that 5000k

 

 

Thanks for that, a pretty interesting read though I had a good idea of the physics already. 

What I meant was that I understood that the very very safe and very very British road laws stated that the limit was on colour temperature so bluer hues couldn't be confused for ESVs.

The thing is, any driver knows you can see true blues from frikkin miles away, through the tiniest gaps in trees (though that is due to light diffraction, similar to sound) and only glimpse it for a millisecond to know what it is.  You don't get anywhere close to this sort of light even with 6000k bulbs so I've never really understood the stance. 

Not dazzling other road users, yeabsolutely. I also can't stand tosspots in their X5s who insist on getting 3 inches from your back windscreen apparently only for the purpose of blinding you...

The next one will be in for a surprise with my Cree reverse lights! Lol...

[Dave_TDCI]

As far as I'm aware Osram nightbreakers and Philips extreme vision are both road legal.

If your light output has reduced or is sh*t I would always start with changing the bulbs first. Supposedly halogen bulbs can loose 10-20% brightness per year.

If you install new bulbs and the light output still isn't what it should be the next port of call I'd recommend is testing the voltage. Even as little as a 5% drop in voltage can lead to a 15% reduction in brightness.

[Dee_82]

On ‎30‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 4:18 PM, Phil21185 said:

Thanks for that, a pretty interesting read though I had a good idea of the physics already. 

What I meant was that I understood that the very very safe and very very British road laws stated that the limit was on colour temperature so bluer hues couldn't be confused for ESVs.

The thing is, any driver knows you can see true blues from frikkin miles away, through the tiniest gaps in trees (though that is due to light diffraction, similar to sound) and only glimpse it for a millisecond to know what it is.  You don't get anywhere close to this sort of light even with 6000k bulbs so I've never really understood the stance. 

Not dazzling other road users, yeabsolutely. I also can't stand tosspots in their X5s who insist on getting 3 inches from your back windscreen apparently only for the purpose of blinding you...

The next one will be in for a surprise with my Cree reverse lights! Lol...

I honestly don't know if blue tinges are legit or not, seems a little daft as you say if that's the case, even perfectly legit Xenons can have a rather nifty blue / purple line around the cut off and as you also mention, a true blue from an ESV is instantly noticeable even after multiple reflections . 

I was under the impression that blue blue is a no no, higher wattage and crap patterns are still no, but less likely to get you in trouble unless your taking the pee. i wasn't aware that white blue tinges are illegal, pretty sure the MOT guide even says that lamps might have a blue tinge to the light coming out of them

Many of the bulbs sold in Halfords are perfectly fine so long as they don't bump up the wattage to compensate for the reduced light output from filtered glass, which is essentially what all those "white" Halogens do.

 

[Philf1]

I tried 6000k and 5000k HIDs and the 5s we’re far better. If you don’t want HIDs what about LEDs CEUK seem pretty good my son and daughter both have them


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[DJ_Andy_M]

9 hours ago, Philf1 said:

I tried 6000k and 5000k HIDs and the 5s we’re far better. If you don’t want HIDs what about LEDs CEUK seem pretty good my son and daughter both have them


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He'll need projectors with auto levelling and washers if he wishes to use either HID or LED in his headlights otherwise they are illegal and will likely void his insurance policy.

[Dave_TDCI]

5000K should be considerably brighter than 6000k as the higher temperature you go from 4300k the more lumens you tend you loose. Also the warmed colour of the 5000k should be far better in the rain.

Are the LEDs not ment to have disastrous beam spread in comparison to even HIDs in reflector lamps?

[Dee_82]

7 hours ago, DJ_Andy_M said:

He'll need projectors with auto levelling and washers if he wishes to use either HID or LED in his headlights otherwise they are illegal and will likely void his insurance policy.

That's not strictly speaking true (in respect of England Scotland and Wales.)  you can have HIDs without levellers and washers (some cars were made like that) but if you do have levellers and washers then they must work and they must abide by the pattern test and are visibly the correct colour (in respect to the MOT check)  The law change in question was more to do with putting HIDs in a reflector which is a big no no. but a HID in a proper projector so long as it doesn't break any other law, is as far as I'm aware, legal? 

6 hours ago, Dave_TDCI said:

5000K should be considerably brighter than 6000k as the higher temperature you go from 4300k the more lumens you tend you loose. Also the warmed colour of the 5000k should be far better in the rain.

Are the LEDs not ment to have disastrous beam spread in comparison to even HIDs in reflector lamps?

Proper LED setups and by that i mean ones that are actually good and not some cheap Chinese knock off jobs that will more likely set fire to your car to light up the road ahead, are actually perfectly fine, they use purpose built LED projector lamps to have the correct pattern.  Basically, if you haven't spent more than £250 quid on the LED lights + projectors, they will probably be pish. legalities aside an all that jazz.

[Philf1]

I get dazzled by misaligned halogen headlights more often than HIDs or LEDs. As long as they are installed in projectors and correctly adjusted i doubt there’s anything the police would do

 

 

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[Dee_82]

i suspect your right, the MOT isn't a sign of what's legal and what isn't. as for the insurance, tell them the truth, you have upgraded projector Lamps, they wont ask for details and you have done your part so are not misleading them.  If i read the T&C correctly on all of my insurance to date, you can only have your insurance pulled if you deliberately mislead them.  If you unintentionally mislead them to the point that they wouldn't have given you the cover OR the premiums would be significantly more than what you were paying had they known, they are obliged to give you your premiums back and cancel your insurance., its the deliberate part that is important and will royally screw you and leave you out of pocket.  When it comes to insurance its always best to tell them, with the exception on my rear disc brake mod, ive not found a single insurance company that wont give me insurance with all my modifications.