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Marshin

Focus 1.6tdci engine help

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Hi guys i need help i have a 58 plate 1.6 tdci focus titanium and the engine has blown, does anyone know if a 2010 1.6 tdci focus engine will fit in mine?

cheers

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Yes, it's the same engine.  You'll need to swap injectors and turbo if it's a different power output though (changing 110ps for 90ps for example).

What's actually happened to yours out of interest?  Blown a headgasket or blown a rod through the block lol?

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make sure they have same number of camshafts and valves. I am not sure exactly when they changed from dohc 16v to sohc 8v.  I don't know if the two are interchangable 

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10 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

They changed for the 8v 115ps engine in the mk3, 2011 onwards.  :smile: 

Tom, am I right in thinking the turbo issues stopped once it changed to the 8v on the focus?  I know Ian said it did on the transit connect so presumably it's the same 1.6 tdci engine......

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20 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Though with your mk2.5 being a 90ps model you should avoid the turbo issues anyway, it's more of a 110 problem.

I hadn't realised that the 90 doesn't have the issues with the turbo.  Why is that?  I've avoided the DPF as well! When I bought it 4 years ago I had no idea about cars, it was just the nearest one that looked ok at the time! Got off lightly.....

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A lot of the issues are caused by the DPF which was fitted to 110 models only until 2010, it gets far hotter than just a cat.  The turbo oil feed pipe runs right past it so the oil is basically cooked above it's operating temperature in that pipe.  There is also a gauze filter at the end of the pipe, this gauze blocks with the sludgy/carbonised oil stopping oil getting to the turbo bearings so they overheat and the turbo breaks.  If the turbo does break, the oil pump and feed pipe must be replaced and the oil system flushed before new turbo is fitted.

DPF regens cause the sump to fill with diesel which thins the oil reducing it lubrication properties and overfilling the sump, creating excess oil pressure which ends up blowing through the oil breather and adding to the ash in the DPF.  Eolys fluid, the stuff that helps the DPF work, also creates ash in the DPF lol, and if the fluid runs out the DPF doesn't work properly so blocks with soot. Soot is usually burned and turned into ash, but ash cannot be pushed through the DPF, once it's in there that's it.

The DPF causes a lot of back pressure against the turbo turbine which is another factor in how long it lasts, the more it blocks, the more back pressure there is.  When something like EGR, injector or glowplugs fail, this can all cause more soot than the DPF can burn, as well as a faulty DPF pressure sensor.  

One thing that is an issue with both 16v engines is the poor sump design, it means some old oil is always left behind after an oil change, leaving carbonised, sludgy oil mixed with diesel to immediately contaminate the fresh oil.  And of course, the mk2 doesn't have a service indicator on the dash, so a lot of them went well over the recommended intervals.  So some 90 turbos do still fail, but nowhere near as many as 110s.   

I should also add, some improvements were made to the 110s over the life of the facelift.  The gauze was removed from the turbo feed pipe and the pipe routing changed slightly to reduce the heat and risk of blockage there.  The DPF was changed to a much more efficient coated DPF instead of the old Eolys one, it works better at lower temps, doesn't block as much and has no fluid to either run out or cause ash in it, all of which reducing backpressure against the turbo.  PSA introduced a specific DV6 oil change procedure to try to ensure as much old oil was removed as possible at services to try and reduce the oil contamination.

 

 

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4 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

A lot of the issues are caused by the DPF which was fitted to 110 models only until 2010, it gets far hotter than just a cat.  The turbo oil feed pipe runs right past it so the oil is basically cooked above it's operating temperature in that pipe.  There is also a gauze filter at the end of the pipe, this gauze blocks with the sludgy/carbonised oil stopping oil getting to the turbo bearings so they overheat and the turbo breaks.  If the turbo does break, the oil pump and feed pipe must be replaced and the oil system flushed before new turbo is fitted.

DPF regens cause the sump to fill with diesel which thins the oil reducing it lubrication properties and overfilling the sump, creating excess oil pressure which ends up blowing through the oil breather and adding to the ash in the DPF.  Eolys fluid, the stuff that helps the DPF work, also creates ash in the DPF lol, and if the fluid runs out the DPF doesn't work properly so blocks with soot. Soot is usually burned and turned into ash, but ash cannot be pushed through the DPF, once it's in there that's it.

The DPF causes a lot of back pressure against the turbo turbine which is another factor in how long it lasts, the more it blocks, the more back pressure there is.  When something like EGR, injector or glowplugs fail, this can all cause more soot than the DPF can burn, as well as a faulty DPF pressure sensor.  

One thing that is an issue with both 16v engines is the poor sump design, it means some old oil is always left behind after an oil change, leaving carbonised, sludgy oil mixed with diesel to immediately contaminate the fresh oil.  And of course, the mk2 doesn't have a service indicator on the dash, so a lot of them went well over the recommended intervals.  So some 90 turbos do still fail, but nowhere near as many as 110s.   

I should also add, some improvements were made to the 110s over the life of the facelift.  The gauze was removed from the turbo feed pipe and the pipe routing changed slightly to reduce the heat and risk of blockage there.  The DPF was changed to a much more efficient coated DPF instead of the old Eolys one, it works better at lower temps, doesn't block as much and has no fluid to either run out or cause ash in it, all of which reducing backpressure against the turbo.  PSA introduced a specific DV6 oil change procedure to try to ensure as much old oil was removed as possible at services to try and reduce the oil contamination.

 

 

That's one of the most informative answers I've ever had on here to one of my questions!  Fascinating stuff.  I change my oil between 6k and 10k and have just had the sump replaced (don't ask, DIY disaster Oil change!).  The service record before me is pretty good too. Considering I'm at 152,000 and on the original turbo, somethings been done right anyway....long may it continue.

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Wow, that's impressive mileage for a DV6 engine!  Has it had anything major replaced so far?  

Also I've gotta ask, what happened to the sump?  Either the sump bolt rounded  and got stuck or the threads stripped out I guess?

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on my 1.6tdci I stripped the sump plug thread after about 8 or 9 oil changes. Perhaps Ii did it up too tight, always a temptation to do up just that little bit tighter to seal the copper washer. i wasn't using a torque wrench.

easy to buy new sumps for these on ebay, the availability makes we wonder if there is high demand due to stripped thread

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Tbh I think they're really only designed for about 12 oil changes over the life of the vehicle, one a year for 12 years.  The service book only has 10 or 12 slots iirc.  I know I had to move onto the paint record paint for my most recent change!

I always use a torque wrench on sump bolts after a bad experience a few years ago.  Offered to do my mate a service for free...  Couple of days later his sump plug fell out and he kept driving it for another few miles.  Surprisingly it didn't do any damage and was fine after a new bolt and oil refill.  I still help him out with car work but I always torque it and he always double checks the sump bolt after an oil change since! :laugh: 

I would imagine people probably replace the sump while they're doing the oil pump etc after a turbo blows which could explain the easy availability.

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15 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Wow, that's impressive mileage for a DV6 engine!  Has it had anything major replaced so far?  

Also I've gotta ask, what happened to the sump?  Either the sump bolt rounded  and got stuck or the threads stripped out I guess?

I guess it is! I'm sure someone on here is on 170,000, I've got a feeling its Lenny.... I've owned it from 77,000 and it was a lease car before then with no major issues.  Since I've had it, the main things have been, injector seals (£125), glow plugs (£300 @ Ford), clutch (done twice, due to a dodgy garage not replacing the slave cylinder on the 1st change) and that's about it other than the timing belt and the usual minor things like the electric window button etc.  I have been getting blue smoke on starts the last 18 months and rough idle - i suspect that's down to the EGR which i plan to remove and clean.

I started car maintenance just over a year ago being completely clueless.  On my first oil change i did the sump plug up as tight as i could with a ratchet.  All was fine til the next change when i found the thread was stripped.  I temp sorted it with a longer bolt but in the end thanks to advice on here tried a retap kit but still dripped after that.  With it still leaking i tried ptfe, sealant and a bonded 'dowty' washer. Still leaked.  Not having the confidence to do the sump myself i took it to the garage and he replaced the sump.  Although he did complement my final botch job - he said he couldn't get the plug out so had to use a hammer and chisel on the sump itself lol.  I suppose that was a small consolation :biggrin: You'll be pleased to know i now have a torque wrench!

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I didn't realise Lenny's mileage was that high - his has had constant maintenance and modification though, I dread to think what it's cost him over the years lol!  I've seen a couple of DV6 taxi's being sold spares/repairs at around 200k but rarely see personal ones even close to that. 

£300 for glow plugs seems a bit much, think mine cost £40 for decent branded ones but fitted myself, that's a high labour rate! :ohmy:  I do keep an eye on the injector seals, knowing they're a common issue, seem ok so far though, I tweak the injector bolts slightly when I've got the engine cover off for oil changes to hopefully stop them loosening enough to leak.  Next big thing on mine is likely to be the clutch I would expect, but I'll most likely change it for something else by then.  I used to chop and change cars all the time but have owned the Focus for over 3 years now...thought it would be cheaper to buy and keep one newer, lower mileage car long term but it hasn't worked out like that, especially adding the depreciation in. 

Everyone has to start somewhere with car maintenance, at least you'll only make that mistake once! :biggrin: 

 

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20 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Everyone has to start somewhere with car maintenance, at least you'll only make that mistake once!

Once bitten, twice shy as the saying goes :biggrin: I think it was Lenny but I can't find him in the list to tag him and ask.  I plan to keep mine going as long as possible so watch this space.  The idea is to learn more as more things go wrong so from that angle, with the age/mileage it's a good car to learn on. I'm hoping I'll get a chance to do aspects of suspension, bearings etc in the next few thousand miles..  All good practice.

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I bought my DV6 engine 2007 Fiesta 1.6tdci in 2007 with 1,600 miles on it. Sold it to my brother a year ago on 146k miles. It now has somewhere between 155-160k miles on it. 

Things that have been done on the engine when I had it:

(not been in a garage since the 1 year service, since than all done by me) Cambelt at about 115k.       Fuel filter at about 120k.  Air filter at about 120k.  Oil change with Castrol magnetec and genuine ford filter each 15k miles (which I know is above the recommended 12.5k).  Fuel injector nuts done up tighter when seals leaking - but seals not replaced.  Runs a bit rough on start up  when cold- suspect glow plug(s) . Last time I did the oil change I stripped the sump thread. Managed to get the plug in with a load of araldite. A real bodge I know, but I had to fix it that day for work, very very slight drip from it, I mean really small and does not need topping up, been like that for nearly two years now. My brother has not changed the oil and it now has not been done for over 20k miles. He has not tackled it because of the glued in sump plug. Bit foolish but he is lazy and just keeps his fingers crossed that it keeps going. Nothing at all has been done to it in his ownership.

A superb engine in my experience. I loved the power a torque (90bhp twin cam 16v engine). No dpf.

It seems to have so much more go in in compared to my current 2015 1.5tdci 95bhp fiesta. I sometimes have a drive in that older fiesta just to remind me how good it is

 

 

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You certainly know how to get your money's worth!!

Did you really not change the fuel or air filter until 120k?  I take it you don't use cheap diesel or drive dusty country lanes lol?  

I'm not sure I'd risk not changing the oil on a DV6 for 20k+, even using a suction pump to avoid the glued bolt would be better than nothing. :unsure: At some point either the turbo will pop or the top end will start rattling.  

 

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First oil filter swap was 120k, that was only because car kept cutting out (on left hand turns strangely) and fault code said low fuel pressure.

I only changed the air filter at same time because it looked like it was about to start breaking up and I thought it being sucked into the intake would be undesirable. It did not look too dirty.

Car never used in dusty type conditions, but I only ever put cheap diesel in, standard Asda diesel, my brother does the same now. 

I did suggest sucking the oil out to him. I did try putting some pipe down the dipstick tube for him but I could not get it down into the sump, it was getting stuck at bottom of the tube. We did not make all that much effort as at that time we did not have a suitable pump to suck the oil up anyway, I was just seeing how easy it might be to try to get him interested in the idea. It would be a shame for him to wreck it through neglect after I had nurtured it to 146k (well I know it does not sound like I really nurtured it).

Other things done on car.  Front brake pads changed at about 75k and 150k. Discs not changed, they are still good.  I took rear drums off at about 140k to check inside, brake shoes were about half worn so left as is.  Rear silencer changed at about 4-5 years old - that was very disappointing, the pipe just ahead of it had a small hole in and the silencer was splitting open along whole length.  Many tyres - front last about 25k, rear about 50k. A few light bulbs. That's about it.  When I bought the car it was 5 months old and had Guernsey plates on and had been a hire car there I believe.  It was like brand new, it could have passed as brand new other than there was no new car smell

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8 hours ago, isetta said:

First oil filter swap was 120k, that was only because car kept cutting out (on left hand turns strangely) and fault code said low fuel pressure.

I only changed the air filter at same time because it looked like it was about to start breaking up and I thought it being sucked into the intake would be undesirable. It did not look too dirty.

Car never used in dusty type conditions, but I only ever put cheap diesel in, standard Asda diesel, my brother does the same now. 

I did suggest sucking the oil out to him. I did try putting some pipe down the dipstick tube for him but I could not get it down into the sump, it was getting stuck at bottom of the tube. We did not make all that much effort as at that time we did not have a suitable pump to suck the oil up anyway, I was just seeing how easy it might be to try to get him interested in the idea. It would be a shame for him to wreck it through neglect after I had nurtured it to 146k (well I know it does not sound like I really nurtured it).

Other things done on car.  Front brake pads changed at about 75k and 150k. Discs not changed, they are still good.  I took rear drums off at about 140k to check inside, brake shoes were about half worn so left as is.  Rear silencer changed at about 4-5 years old - that was very disappointing, the pipe just ahead of it had a small hole in and the silencer was splitting open along whole length.  Many tyres - front last about 25k, rear about 50k. A few light bulbs. That's about it.  When I bought the car it was 5 months old and had Guernsey plates on and had been a hire car there I believe.  It was like brand new, it could have passed as brand new other than there was no new car smell

That's quite a feat! :biggrin:  

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10 hours ago, isetta said:

First oil filter swap was 120k, that was only because car kept cutting out (on left hand turns strangely) and fault code said low fuel pressure.

I only changed the air filter at same time because it looked like it was about to start breaking up and I thought it being sucked into the intake would be undesirable. It did not look too dirty.

Car never used in dusty type conditions, but I only ever put cheap diesel in, standard Asda diesel, my brother does the same now. 

I did suggest sucking the oil out to him. I did try putting some pipe down the dipstick tube for him but I could not get it down into the sump, it was getting stuck at bottom of the tube. We did not make all that much effort as at that time we did not have a suitable pump to suck the oil up anyway, I was just seeing how easy it might be to try to get him interested in the idea. It would be a shame for him to wreck it through neglect after I had nurtured it to 146k (well I know it does not sound like I really nurtured it).

Other things done on car.  Front brake pads changed at about 75k and 150k. Discs not changed, they are still good.  I took rear drums off at about 140k to check inside, brake shoes were about half worn so left as is.  Rear silencer changed at about 4-5 years old - that was very disappointing, the pipe just ahead of it had a small hole in and the silencer was splitting open along whole length.  Many tyres - front last about 25k, rear about 50k. A few light bulbs. That's about it.  When I bought the car it was 5 months old and had Guernsey plates on and had been a hire car there I believe.  It was like brand new, it could have passed as brand new other than there was no new car smell

Pretty sure you meant fuel filter there...120k oil filter would be interesting! :laugh:  That's surprising though, the Focus ones seem to clog fairly regularly, I know its a different shape to the Fiesta but I wonder if it has better filtration inside as well, seems odd to need extra protection for the same fuel pump and injectors though.  My air filters always look dirty after just a few months, but I do a lot of rural driving so there's a lot of dry mud and pollen etc floating around, particularly at harvest time.  I went to change the filter on a mates car once, not sure how many miles were on it but he wasn't a fan of servicing...the engine had sucked a hole right through the middle of it! :lol: 

I must admit, I haven't used a suction pump on a DV6 so maybe there is something at the bottom of the tube to stop it.  I did it on the ST150 after rounding the seized sump bolt without too much difficulty.

Brake discs suffer from low mileage, they really need to be used regularly to keep them well, you obviously cover a decent yearly mileage and owning it from (nearly) new obviously helps.  The ones on my Focus were wrecked when I bought it at just 46k, a good inch plus of rust on the insides and deep grooves both sides, however the ones I replaced them with still look new at 20k, even the pads haven't worn much.     I wouldn't expect the exhaust to rot so quickly on a regularly used car though!  I guess it was either poor quality control or just cost cutting to keep the price of the Fiesta low.

 

I bought mine with just a service book but no actual paperwork at 46k/6 years old.  It seems in that time it had just had one full set of tyres (using DOT code) and one battery under warranty at 2 years old.  And then just serviced yearly, with the mileage ranging from 2000 to 12,000 each year (1 businessman and 2 retired owners).  

I've actually kept a spreadsheet record of all the money I've spent on the car, including parts, modifications, tax, insurance, fuel etc.  Average miles per gallon over 3 years is 57.5mpg which works out at 9.3 pence per mile if you were wondering lol.  The parts I've had to change so far are:

Reverse light switch 46k
DPF, oil & filter 48k
2x tyres & wheel alignment 49k
Oil & filter, oil filter housing (cracked), air filter, fuel filter, pollen filter 52k 
Other 2x tyres & wheel alignment (wasn't right first time) 52k
Front discs & pads 53k
Glow plugs 57k
DPF again, oil & filter 58k
Full set of Wiper Blades 59k
New windscreen 60k
Brake bulb 61k
Oil, oil filter, air filter 63k
Top engine mount 64k
Oil, oil filter, air filter, fuel filter, pollen filter 68k
Pair front lower arms 72k
Full wheel alignment 72k
Cambelt, waterpump, aux belt etc 73k
MAF sensor 73k
Aux belt tensioner 73k
Pair tyres fitted 74k
Pair tyres (soon to be fitted) 74k

That's not good value for 3 years/30k, even before the depreciation on top!




 

 

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yes I did mean fuel filter at 120k, not oil filter.  

I did have a windscreen replacement too but that was replaced due to damage from an external cause so wasn't a service item or a fault as such. However, before it got damaged, there were some lines in the quickclear windscreen that had stopped working leave 3 or 4 strips about an inch wide which did not clear, it did not go like that in one day, it had got progressively worse. I think it was about 6-7 years old then.

All in all I was very pleased with it. I did keep a list of expenditure. I reckon over 145k miles it cost me max 18p per mile  including fuel / parts / depreciation (price I paid for car £9699 less what I sold it for £1250)

Might have another go at getting a piece of hose down dipstick tube, might try chamfer on end of hose to see if it sill will go further. I am wondering if there is a slight ledge where dipstick tube fits in to engine block and it's just getting caught on it, as oppose to being too wide to go further.

Sump looks easy to get off. Haynes manual says the front part of exhaust needs removing to do it but it looks to me like I could undo the sump and then swivel it around 90 degrees or so and then drop down. But until it is tried I can't be sure. (This is mk6.5 fiesta, it might differ from focus in how tight or otherwise the clearence is)

 

 

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, isetta said:

Haynes manual says the front part of exhaust needs removing to do it

This was the bit that put me off and I couldn't find a section on removing just the front exhaust in haynes.  Tbh, i'd got fed up of the stress by that point and just wanted the drip to stop :biggrin:

 

7 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

oil filter housing (cracked)

I have a very minor oil leak - i find oil on the bottom of the turbo intercooler pipe (the big thick downward one) and it runs pretty much directly under the oil filter housing.  Would that be the most likely cause?  And any tips on finding a crack to be sure?

That's the other thing - never had any part of the exhaust replaced either!

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