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Marshin

Focus 1.6tdci engine help

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I think the oil pump may stop you sliding the sump across without dropping the exhaust unfortunately.  It's not too hard though, as usual Haynes over complicates it lol!  Says you need to remove grill and radiator etc...I didn't bother.  I made a DPF change guide on here a couple of years ago if you want to see it.  Basically just removed the fan cowling, airbox and heatshields then it was just a v band clamp around the turbo end and two nuts at the other end.  May need more access on the fiesta but I'm not sure.

As for the plastic filter housing, the crack was very obvious to see on the inside when changing the filter, couldn't really see it from outside though, I guess it had been over tightened previously.  Caused a fine oil mist on the pipes etc below the filter.  Oil on boost pipes may come from splits or loose jubilee clips on the pipes themselves but it's worth checking the filter casing next oil change.

The standard Focus cat-back exhaust does seem to made pretty well, it's one thing that still looks surprisingly good on mine too.  

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On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:37 PM, TomsFocus said:

Wow, that's impressive mileage for a DV6 engine!  Has it had anything major replaced so far?  

Also I've gotta ask, what happened to the sump?  Either the sump bolt rounded  and got stuck or the threads stripped out I guess?

Don't say that! i just hit 120k. I'm getting an odd whine on the belt side and the clutch is about to fail but shes still mostly ok...

3 hours ago, isetta said:

 

Sump looks easy to get off. Haynes manual says the front part of exhaust needs removing to do it but it looks to me like I could undo the sump and then swivel it around 90 degrees or so and then drop down. But until it is tried I can't be sure. (This is mk6.5 fiesta, it might differ from focus in how tight or otherwise the clearence is)

 

sump will come off without the DPF/Flex being removed. bit fiddly, but doable, get a bendy ratchet spanner tho!

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oh just mind to put the plug back in, there is about 100ml of oil in the bottom of the sump, taking it off without being careful or not putting the plug back in will make a mess, an probably all down your neck and face for good measure!

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1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

I made a DPF change guide on here a couple of years ago if you want to see it

Yes mate, if you have the link?  

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1 hour ago, Dee_82 said:
On 20/10/2017 at 7:37 PM, TomsFocus said:

 

Don't say that! i just hit 120k

Only just run in then Dee :biggrin:........

I'm aiming for 200k.  It's either that or the car will die of hard work first as I intend to run it in to the ground!  Would love to know if anyone has achieved that in a DV6 on here.......

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its a bomber engine in my opinion... if looked after.  I'm slightly concerned that every company i contracted about referbing my turbo didn't even bother to reply so i expect that's a new turbo before that decides to end its life as well.  90% of my miles are motorway but shes definitely not as tight as she used to be, a lot more knocks and rattles then when i got her, after this DMF and clutch is changed i plan to get a new turbo and run her in to the ground as well.  with the age and number of miles she is worth little more than scrap anyway, if i had the space i might even break her 

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11 hours ago, Albert27 said:

Yes mate, if you have the link?  

I do...  But photobucket ruined it! :sad:  As usual it's full of my waffle but you get the idea! :laugh: 

12 hours ago, Dee_82 said:

Don't say that! i just hit 120k. I'm getting an odd whine on the belt side and the clutch is about to fail but shes still mostly ok...

The odd whine is probably the alternator if it's a high pitched whine over the turbo whine at idle?  Try it with the aux belt off and see, mine does it as well if it's that.  I'm starting to worry about my clutch/DMF now, that roughness I was getting seems to be getting worse, the speed related one has been reduced by new tyres, but the engine related one is more noticeable now and the roughness at idle doesn't show any signs of improvement.  Can only be the gearbox or DMF which is worrying.  :unsure: 

10 hours ago, Dee_82 said:

its a bomber engine in my opinion... if looked after.  I'm slightly concerned that every company i contracted about referbing my turbo didn't even bother to reply so i expect that's a new turbo before that decides to end its life as well.  90% of my miles are motorway but shes definitely not as tight as she used to be, a lot more knocks and rattles then when i got her, after this DMF and clutch is changed i plan to get a new turbo and run her in to the ground as well.  with the age and number of miles she is worth little more than scrap anyway, if i had the space i might even break her 

Realistically, either a turbo, DPF or DMF failure would write off one of these if paying garage prices now.  The market has really dropped out for them, I thought it was due to the 'diesel is killing everyone' headlines but other diesels seem to be holding value ok, including the VAG stuff that the original headlines were about...

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On 20/10/2017 at 10:22 AM, TomsFocus said:

A lot of the issues are caused by the DPF which was fitted to 110 models only until 2010, it gets far hotter than just a cat.  The turbo oil feed pipe runs right past it so the oil is basically cooked above it's operating temperature in that pipe.  There is also a gauze filter at the end of the pipe, this gauze blocks with the sludgy/carbonised oil stopping oil getting to the turbo bearings so they overheat and the turbo breaks.  If the turbo does break, the oil pump and feed pipe must be replaced and the oil system flushed before new turbo is fitted.

DPF regens cause the sump to fill with diesel which thins the oil reducing it lubrication properties and overfilling the sump, creating excess oil pressure which ends up blowing through the oil breather and adding to the ash in the DPF.  Eolys fluid, the stuff that helps the DPF work, also creates ash in the DPF lol, and if the fluid runs out the DPF doesn't work properly so blocks with soot. Soot is usually burned and turned into ash, but ash cannot be pushed through the DPF, once it's in there that's it.

The DPF causes a lot of back pressure against the turbo turbine which is another factor in how long it lasts, the more it blocks, the more back pressure there is.  When something like EGR, injector or glowplugs fail, this can all cause more soot than the DPF can burn, as well as a faulty DPF pressure sensor.  

One thing that is an issue with both 16v engines is the poor sump design, it means some old oil is always left behind after an oil change, leaving carbonised, sludgy oil mixed with diesel to immediately contaminate the fresh oil.  And of course, the mk2 doesn't have a service indicator on the dash, so a lot of them went well over the recommended intervals.  So some 90 turbos do still fail, but nowhere near as many as 110s.   

I should also add, some improvements were made to the 110s over the life of the facelift.  The gauze was removed from the turbo feed pipe and the pipe routing changed slightly to reduce the heat and risk of blockage there.  The DPF was changed to a much more efficient coated DPF instead of the old Eolys one, it works better at lower temps, doesn't block as much and has no fluid to either run out or cause ash in it, all of which reducing backpressure against the turbo.  PSA introduced a specific DV6 oil change procedure to try to ensure as much old oil was removed as possible at services to try and reduce the oil contamination.

 

 

Which I had known about this when fighting my extended warranty after my 1.6 ran away on its own oil. Anyone know what the real cause behind this would have been? I'm guessing a combination of the above and possibly the injector issues known to occur on these engines??

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Well if it had enough oil to run away it doesn't sound like the usual oil feed pipe blockage in your case.  Though maybe the drain pipe blocked and forced the oil through the turbo oil seal instead.

Was there any investigation into it at all?

It's not that uncommon for oil seals to fail on any turbo so you may have just been unlucky with it.  I've had 2 fail on previous cars but luckily it was exhaust side so got plumes of smoke but it couldn't run away.

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Without trying to take this topic completely out of context, this was the only inspection I had done which was on the turbo and wrote off the chance of any further inspection, and the warranty refused to pay out on the grounds of "carbon build up"

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How many miles was on it?  Blocked DPF, seized VNT vanes and turbo oil leak...sounds like it was knackered anyway.

If that is the case then yeah, that's the usual DV6 carbon issues unfortunately.  Common fault but caused by 'neglect'  so won't be covered by warranty.

Without seeing the car we'll never know if that was correct or not now.

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On 18/10/2017 at 7:37 PM, TomsFocus said:

Yes, it's the same engine.  You'll need to swap injectors and turbo if it's a different power output though (changing 110ps for 90ps for example).

What's actually happened to yours out of interest?  Blown a headgasket or blown a rod through the block lol?

Thanks for the reply, the car decided to drop all of its water and the block has cracked, im having a hard job finding an engine with the same engine code and didnt know if an engine with a diff engine code would fit?

 

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Oh dear, where did the water come from?  Split pipe or waterpump maybe? 

Which engine code are you looking for?  DV6ATED4 or G8DA are the codes for these iirc.  The code itself shouldn't make much difference if you'll be swapping ancilliaries though.  The main engine block & head is the same on any of the 16v 1.6 TDCi/HDi/TD as far as I know.  Should be able to use one of a similar age from Focus, Fiesta, 307, 407, C4, V50 etc I think, but do double check it all looks the same first.

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Not sure, the car went onto 3 cylinders and the water was forced back up throuth the water bottle, and when it was taken apart there is a crack down one orbthe bores, my code is g8db, ive found loads with code g8da but was told a few bits may be different/may not fit

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Not sure what would've caused that tbh, manufacturing defect maybe, it's usually oil issues rather than water issues with these engines lol!

The DB only has minor differences in bolt on parts, the actual blocks are the same so as long as you have the parts from your current engine to swap where needed it should all be fine.  

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Do you know the difference between the g8db and g8dd? I have the chance of a 2010 g8dd complete engine

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12 hours ago, Marshin said:

Do you know the difference between the g8db and g8dd? I have the chance of a 2010 g8dd complete engine

I don't know of an exact list of the changes, Ford might be able to tell you on their helpline number but it's not cheap.  DD came with the new turbo oil feed pipe (different shape and no gauze) and a cDPF so has a few different sensors, but the main block will still be the same.  

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On ‎23‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:24 AM, TomsFocus said:

I do...  But photobucket ruined it! :sad:  As usual it's full of my waffle but you get the idea! :laugh: 

The odd whine is probably the alternator if it's a high pitched whine over the turbo whine at idle?  Try it with the aux belt off and see, mine does it as well if it's that.  I'm starting to worry about my clutch/DMF now, that roughness I was getting seems to be getting worse, the speed related one has been reduced by new tyres, but the engine related one is more noticeable now and the roughness at idle doesn't show any signs of improvement.  Can only be the gearbox or DMF which is worrying.  :unsure: 

Realistically, either a turbo, DPF or DMF failure would write off one of these if paying garage prices now.  The market has really dropped out for them, I thought it was due to the 'diesel is killing everyone' headlines but other diesels seem to be holding value ok, including the VAG stuff that the original headlines were about...

Without the Aux Belt? might have  problem getting her started with out that one surely? The whine is fairly loud but gets quieter the longer i drive, I'm a little nervous that its a Pulley or something going to pop, cant see anything obvious but as you know, there isn't a lot of room down that side to get in and look.  Could do with getting some kinda tool that i can direct to see where its loudest. like a stethoscope for Mechanic or something! probably quite useful to have in the tool box for other jobs too.

My DMF is on its way out but it doesn't make it rough, she just clunks a lot, esp if i put her under load but low revs then release, ill get a loud knock and whoosh whoosh whoosh sound as the clutch slips about. it wont be the gearbox if the clutch isn't engaged though.  Did you ever replace the lower Mount?

 

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No issue starting and running without the aux belt...it only runs the alternator and AC.  Plenty of power in the battery to start and run the engine for a few minutes without the aux belt.  I was surprised it didn't even cause the battery or engine malfunction light in that time.

A long screwdriver can act as a stethoscope, just don't get it caught in any moving parts lol! :laugh:

I haven't replaced the mount.  Spent the money replacing tyres instead as they'd be needed for MOT in Jan and seemed best to do it before the bad weather starts.  One of the noises has been removed with the new tyres, as has the dodgy steering feel.

The odd DMF/gearbox noise is still definitely there but I don't have any more money to spend tracking that down now lol.

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