Is this Police Speed van parked legally?

[Guest]

Hi all, 

 

Can someone tell me if this police speed van is parked legally? Its on a grass verge on a public footpath neatly hidden behind a bus stop

[TomsFocus]

It isn't actually on the footpath...it's legal to cross a footpath for access.  It also looks like that's just public land so again not illegal to park there.  There's enough space for them to see past the bus stop so should be enough for you to see it really.  

They seem to be putting out quite a few camera vans lately, because that's ideal  this time of year when everyone's being blinded by the sun so they can't see the speedo or much distance in front.   Did you get caught by it?  

 

[Gizza11]

As this is a police van I expect they can do whatever they like. I have seen them regularly  here in Telford where I live parked in the middle of  the road usually on some  white cross hatching monitoring the traffic not just for speed but everything else  like mot and tax insurance etc. and this is basically a rural town

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

It isn't actually on the footpath...it's legal to cross a footpath for access.  It also looks like that's just public land so again not illegal to park there.  There's enough space for them to see past the bus stop so should be enough for you to see it really.  

They seem to be putting out quite a few camera vans lately, because that's ideal  this time of year when everyone's being blinded by the sun so they can't see the speedo or much distance in front.   Did you get caught by it?  

 

What would be interesting is if i parked there and see how long it takes to be moved on. 

Nah i was going 27/30 in the 30 zone. Started getting paranoid when i took pictures as the guy was giving me funny looks, probably edit the tape to say i was speeding 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Gizza11 said:

As this is a police van I expect they can do whatever they like. I have seen them regularly  here in Telford where I live parked in the middle of  the road usually on some  white cross hatching monitoring the traffic not just for speed but everything else  like mot and tax insurance etc. and this is basically a rural town

A police van manned by a civilian not in an emergency....just funny because if it was one of us i can bet we would be moved on.

[Stoney871]

Mobile camera sites are pre-surveyed and authorised by local road safety partnerships.

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[Stoney871]

What would be interesting is if i parked there and see how long it takes to be moved on. 
Nah i was going 27/30 in the 30 zone. Started getting paranoid when i took pictures as the guy was giving me funny looks, probably edit the tape to say i was speeding 

It's not illegal to take photos or video in public areas unless you're doing it while driving using a hand held device.
Anyhow, they can't edit footage.
Any video or stills recorded have the speed data hard coded to the media.

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[Gizza11]

11 minutes ago, Stoney871 said:

It's not illegal to take photos or video in public areas

I know this is off subject but try to take a picky of you own kids in my local park in Telford where the kids are. you will get an obnoxious gentleman on a  push bike from the council  to tell you other wise. But I do see your point

[simonb65]

34 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

It isn't actually on the footpath...it's legal to cross a footpath for access.

 

It's only legal to cross a footpath if there is a dropped curb at to point of crossing! I know someone who converted their front garden into a hard standing for their car and was prosecuted because of their access over the footpath ... they hadn't got approval from the council and dropped the curb, hence not making it a right of way!

So, it is illegal in how it got there! It depends who owns the land it's parked on as to whether its trespassing or not and it can legally take photos in a public place. However, in order to prosecute, the camera location used has to be approved and listed. That applies for both fixed and mobile camera units.

[Gizza11]

6 minutes ago, simonb65 said:

the camera location used has to be approved and listed. That applies for both fixed and mobile camera units

I don't disagree with this but here they always almost to the van park where it is partially concealed if the above statement is correct then I wonder how they get approval makes me wonder.

[simonb65]

1 minute ago, Gizza11 said:

I don't disagree with this but here they always almost to the van park where it is partially concealed if the above statement is correct then I wonder how they get approval make me wonder.

I don't understand either how these vans can be concealed and they don't have to put out warning signs that there is a camera about ... unlike fixed camera, which have to have signage and be highly visible! The fact they are not operated by the police, but civilians makes you wonder what other 'normal' 'safety camera' loop holes these things hop through!

There are a few interesting YouTube videos of people parking or just standing in front of them, blocking the camera view. Don't think there is anything they can do other than move 

[Stoney871]

I know this is off subject but try to take a picky of you own kids in my local park in Telford where the kids are. you will get an obnoxious gentleman on a  push bike from the council  to tell you other wise. But I do see your point

It is not illegal to take photos of anyone anywhere (except where law forbids like military sites or socpa [2005] protected areas) however be prepared to justify yourself.
The thing a while back of schools banning parents taking photos & video at sports days was utter tosh and not legally enforceable.

Have you seen reality cop shows where scrots put camera phones in Officers' faces?
I've had it happen to me and it's deeply annoying but we can't stop them as they have a legal right.

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[Gizza11]

It is not illegal to take photos of anyone anywhere (except where law forbids like military sites or socpa [2005] protected areas) however be prepared to justify yourself

on this bit yes I know I worked for the MOD for 18 years as a civil servant manager

6 minutes ago, Stoney871 said:

Have you seen reality cop shows where scrots put camera phones in Officers' faces?
I've had it happen to me and it's deeply annoying but we can't stop them as they have a legal right.

And yes its all over Utube they seem to think its funny or one over the cops but in my experience I've never bean stopped by the cops for no reason even if it seem so at the time. I think we are lucky with or Police probably  the most tolerant and best  in the world .

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, simonb65 said:

It's only legal to cross a footpath if there is a dropped curb at to point of crossing! I know someone who converted their front garden into a hard standing for their car and was prosecuted because of their access over the footpath ... they hadn't got approval from the council and dropped the curb, hence not making it a right of way!

So, it is illegal in how it got there! It depends who owns the land it's parked on as to whether its trespassing or not and it can legally take photos in a public place. However, in order to prosecute, the camera location used has to be approved and listed. That applies for both fixed and mobile camera units.

There is no dropped curb anywhere along that whole road...so illegal then? 

[Guest]

This is nothing about hating coppers or anything like that, its more the principle of the situation, if one of us did that, we'd get the police chapping on our windows/ fines or whatever. 

Just because its a police vehicle doesn't mean it can make the law up as it goes along right?

Theres no dropped kerb and there was no emergency..........to me that seems like an illegally parked vehicle ( parked being : engine off, stationary vehicle) 

[Guest]

Although, did find this online from wigan police, bearing in mind I am in scotland but could the same apply? 

 

3. With regard to Clearways in general, under Section 5 (1) Road Traffic 
Regulation Act 1984, it is an offence for a person except upon the 
direction or with the permission of a police constable in uniform to cause 
or permit any vehicle to wait on any of those main carriageways forming 
part of a 'specified trunk road' (The vehicle must not be on the 
carriageway, it may stop in a lay-by or completely on the verge).

There are several exemptions to that specific regulation, notably for 
fire, police or ambulance purposes. Safety Cameras in Wiltshire & Swindon 
are operated by the police.

N W Blencowe 
Acting Inspector, Safety Camera Unit.

[TomsFocus]

16 minutes ago, fraserrg said:

This is nothing about hating coppers or anything like that, its more the principle of the situation, if one of us did that, we'd get the police chapping on our windows/ fines or whatever.  

Tbf, I'd hope the actual police have better things to do than telling you not to park on a verge...assuming it's council owned, the worst that could happen is a council parking attendant asks you to move on or leaves a fine on your windscreen.  If it is council owned they will have most likely given permission for the van to park there anyway.

[stef123]

makes a change from them being parked in bus stops up my way!!

[Stoney871]

Parking matters were decriminalised so all down to councils and civil enforcement unless we consider the parking to be a hazard to road users.
All camera locations are approved, surveyed, sited within signed areas and mostly blackspots for speed related incidents.
Invariably they are sites where fatalities have occurred.

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[AlexBartlam]

5 hours ago, Gizza11 said:

I have seen them regularly  here in Telford

ah im also from telford, they are always on the EP (estern primary or A442) dodgy buggers althrough i never speed they always make me paranoid, they like to hide around corners around our area i find. off topic but did participate in the charity cruse with defined ridez.

[Jonro2009]

topics like this one get discussed all the time (not just on here), camera vans always seem to be in places that the public deem to be dangerous, sneaky or illegal. As @Stoney871 says though, the locations have all been passed as acceptable. If you get caught by one which you feel was somewhere it shouldn't have been you can check the camera databases or challenge the ticket, which would prove futile anyway. I hardly expect the police to say "we caught you doing 45 in a 30 but we shouldn't have been there so we will cancel the ticket", the driver was breaking the law so has to face that. The operator of the van may face a few questions, but it doesn't alter the fact that someone was caught doing something illegal. and as far as them being in plain sight, I have never understood that. They are there to catch law breakers and its much easier to do that if they cant be seen. It is not true that they should be a visual deterrent, if that was the case - which it is, people just look out for them more whilst speeding. If they were hidden then people would probably start to drive slower everywhere as there is a bigger risk of being caught. the fine then becomes the deterrent not the van. I would like to see the money being used for something that was visible to the public, to prove it is not just a revenue machine for the 'policeman's ball' lol. For instance when a new roundabout is built or a new section of dual carriageway is laid to bypass a village, there could be signs saying 'This road improvement was made possible by.....'. then we could all say we owned some real estate haha. I once saw a 'safety' van parked in the middle of a busy section of road in the red cross hatchings, now there is no way that was an agreed position.

 

 

[Stoney871]

A favourite trick is to park a van underneath a fixed camera facing oncoming traffic to get drivers that gun it to the cameras then anchor up before the lines.

For info-

Gatso cameras do take photos from both directions, but the forward facing (approach) speed is set way higher than the posted limit (say 60 in a 30 zone) as they are not 'Type Approved' to take approach photos, generally due to the white flash among other factors.

Approach photos are therefore not admissable as evidence, although going fast enough to set cameras off on approach on purpose is 'VERY DUMB'.

While on blue light runs I often set off approach photos and the white flash is extremely distracting.

 

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[Turvey]

7 hours ago, Stoney871 said:

Have you seen reality cop shows where scrots put camera phones in Officers' faces?
I've had it happen to me and it's deeply annoying but we can't stop them as they have a legal right.

 

I was watching an Aussie cop show the other day and a young 'bush lawyer' muppet was thrusting a phone in the sergeant's face giving it all the "I know my rights" malarkey. The serg put up with it for a while before replying "You also have the right to remain silent, but you don't seem to be excersising  THAT particular right!!!"  Top reply!