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Condensation in rear lights


naefuse
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In the Ford manual they say anything more than light misting is a fault. 
 

“Examples of unacceptable condensation are..

a water puddle inside the lamp 
 

streaks, drip marks or large droplets present on the interior of the lens”

 

If Ford are suggesting it’s unacceptable, it’s a fault in my book and needs correcting.

 

 

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Oh well, it's not the first time I've been the only voice in the wilderness and I don't expect it to be the last.

H

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My rear light was misted up/droplets/streaks from about October ( maybe earlier in the year but that is the earliest I had photographic evidence of it )  to late May  - and even then because we had consecutive weeks of zero rain. I ran a hose over the back and got a little misting in there to show Ford, but nothing like as bad so they relied on my photographic evidence. So for months It looked utterly cr*p, let the car down enormously (which we otherwise love btw ) and was something I focussed on every time I looked at the car. No pun intended, it put a real dampener on our purchase which was the most I have ever spent on a car.

I personally think driving around with a misted light unit for over half the year is unacceptable. I have had the occasional sign of misting on a rear cluster, but it disappears soon enough and I am fine with that - the issues people have reported with this central light , including myself, is a different beast I feel - too much water ingress and not designed to vent easily enough.  Is it the design, or the fitment, I don't know but hoping someone will figure it out so we can at least DIY it. I do suspect it might be a conflict of design when running modern LEDs i.e. where heat is not helping the dissipation

 I really wish I had been able to keep the old light unit so I could do some experiments to see where the problem lies,  e.g. maybe seal the bulb holes and done a dunk test , as I feel I will at some point have the same issue.  Saw a youtube of a guy who removed it, dried it out and sealed across the top but not convinced - not seen a follow up vid to confirm it was a good fix.    I think I would be more relaxed if it was a little misting that cleared up over a couple of days - it honestly looked like it had been dragged out of a lake sometimes 🙂

 

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16 hours ago, Hamster said:

Oh well, it's not the first time I've been the only voice in the wilderness and I don't expect it to be the last.

H

It’s not that your a voice in the wilderness. I think we would all agree that some misting due to temperature change is expected. But if you drive for months on end through fairly consistent temperatures and the misting, or in my case big water droplets doesn’t go away, that’s not acceptable. 

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I have same problem on my 2017 Edge as described in many of these posts for last 2+ yrs of 3 yr lease.  In my case the moisture never dries and is constant and it obvious. I wrote it off to a design flaw until this week when I had my lease turn in inspection. Ford is saying this due to a hairline crack in the lens and is my fault and they want tack $1800 on to my cost to turn in the vehicle. I’m floored. First there is no crack that I can see with naked eye. My wife has never backed up into anything.  I will fight this to the bitter end. 

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Unfortunately condensation is a thing in LED lamps and the "recommended" way of clearing it is to leave your lights on for 20-40 mins to clear it. However the fact that some you guys are being turned away from your dealers when there is physical water droplets in the light unit is terrible. I have to be careful what I say but these units should be replaced under warranty without a doubt.

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1 hour ago, MasterTechTip said:

Unfortunately condensation is a thing in LED lamps and the "recommended" way of clearing it is to leave your lights on for 20-40 mins to clear it. However the fact that some you guys are being turned away from your dealers when there is physical water droplets in the light unit is terrible. I have to be careful what I say but these units should be replaced under warranty without a doubt.

I can't believe LED's get hot enough to dry anything out, they barely get warm. Halogen and tungsten bulbs get too hot to hold.

I'd try taking it off, remove whatever access point there is and drying it with a heat gun. Then i'd stick in a few silica gel bags and seal it up. Got to be better than the water droplet pics on here. For the cost of the car there has to be a better sollution than fitting another part that will do the same thing.

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12 hours ago, fiestaecoboostman said:

I can't believe LED's get hot enough to dry anything out, they barely get warm. Halogen and tungsten bulbs get too hot to hold.

I'd try taking it off, remove whatever access point there is and drying it with a heat gun. Then i'd stick in a few silica gel bags and seal it up. Got to be better than the water droplet pics on here. For the cost of the car there has to be a better sollution than fitting another part that will do the same thing.

They get mildly warm haha, like I said that's Ford's recommendation 

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OK, so it doesn't look like this is going away.

I'm pretty much into 'modding' anything so, access the back of the light cluster and/or bar. Create a 40mm square hole in the rear case. Purchase the required number of these fans -:

Noctua NF-A4x10 FLX, Premium Quiet Fan, 3-Pin (40x10mm, Brown)

Wire up the fans to a live source. Mount the fans so the airflow is into the light unit from the car to create positive lamp pressure. 
 
You can bet your life the problem condensation will go away.
 
H
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3 hours ago, Hamster said:

OK, so it doesn't look like this is going away.

I'm pretty much into 'modding' anything so, access the back of the light cluster and/or bar. Create a 40mm square hole in the rear case. Purchase the required number of these fans -:

Noctua NF-A4x10 FLX, Premium Quiet Fan, 3-Pin (40x10mm, Brown)

Wire up the fans to a live source. Mount the fans so the airflow is into the light unit from the car to create positive lamp pressure. 
 
You can bet your life the problem condensation will go away.
 
H

Before Ford replaced mine, I was thinking of ways to address this - I wondered if a very small hole at the rear of the light cluster, with a very small rubber tube into the actual boot space would be a) enough for moisture to dissipate but b) not so much that it would introduce too much moisture into the internal cabin space ( e.g. probably no more than could be introduce with wet shoes during a downpour ) .  I consider myself quite 'creative' but not confident with anything electronic! 

 

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  • 1 month later...

interesting problem. If the lights are sealed how is the condensation getting in? I live in Florida (USA). My thinking is the humidity seeps in somehow and can't escape. Removing the trim and installing silica packs seems like the most obvious short term solution.

💙🇺🇸💙

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55 minutes ago, Fernando4949 said:

If the lights are sealed how is the condensation getting in?

The issue with sealed units are that they need to be sealed with an inert gas in them (like double glazed windows are), but they aren't due to cost, so it depends on the humidity control of the manufacturers. From my experience, the manufacturers in India I've visited, don't have good environmental humidity control! So the moisture is present from day one. It then just needs the right external temp and pressure to bring it out and once its condensed out of the air, it won't evaporate back! I've worked on everything from instrument clusters to ECU's and moisture, condensation is only controlled by a breathable Gortex plug/membrane or internal heater elements.... which would make a significant impact on the build cost of a light cluster (not so much on a cluster or ECU)!

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Hang on, I bought a really expensive bathroom cabinet with mirrors in the doors, everytime I have a shower the mirrors foggy up.

Should I take it back to Wickes for a refund?

H

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3 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Should I take it back to Wickes for a refund?

Just get a heated one! :wink3:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Condensation.thumb.jpg.cc6cef416dc4e7a629aa2a58f2c689dd.jpg

On 9/4/2020 at 3:59 PM, Hamster said:

Hang on, I bought a really expensive bathroom cabinet with mirrors in the doors, everytime I have a shower the mirrors foggy up.

Should I take it back to Wickes for a refund?

H

I bought a really expensive, $1800 reflector panel attached to a 2017 Ford Edge. It has water puddled up in the corners that sloshes around and never goes away. The dealer says the warranty ran out in April.

Should I take it back to Wickes for a refund?

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On 9/4/2020 at 8:59 PM, Hamster said:

Hang on, I bought a really expensive bathroom cabinet with mirrors in the doors, everytime I have a shower the mirrors foggy up.

Should I take it back to Wickes for a refund?

H

Cone on Hamster. There is a distinct difference between condensation forming on the outer surface of something, to water sloshing about on the inside of a car light unit. I know you have your own view on these, but I certainly wouldn’t criticise somebody for wanting their car to be fit for purpose. I got mine replaced by Ford and so should anyone who has lights that are sub-standard. 

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On 7/13/2020 at 7:30 PM, Edge of Reason said:

In the Ford manual they say anything more than light misting is a fault. 
 

“Examples of unacceptable condensation are..

a water puddle inside the lamp 
 

streaks, drip marks or large droplets present on the interior of the lens”

 

If Ford are suggesting it’s unacceptable, it’s a fault in my book and needs correcting.

Totally agree! Ford themselves define the line between acceptable and no acceptable ... if your light cluster crosses that line, it's Fords responsibility to rectify it! (unless there is small print in the manual saying that everything written in it is to be taken with a pinch of salt and is just made up for the hell of it! :huh:

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From a marketing perspective, I would have thought Ford would not want relatively new cars driving around looking like this - it would put me off the brand if I saw too many.  How many modern cars do you see driving around with such an obvious 'in your face' flaw?  I know this thread is the gift that keeps giving, but to clarify I am not talking about a small amount of 'acceptable' condensation which probably does affect other brands/models  - but by design.  I don't know if it is the design/manufacturing/materials - but nothing will convince me that these examples are acceptable even on a budget car.

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I believe these have a couple of vents on the back covered in some kind of mesh or fabric. Mine are covered in something blue that is less than a cm in diameter. I drilled a couple of 3/16" (about 5 mm) holes in each of the lower corners on the back. I don't see any standing water in the corners this evening, but the lens is still plenty wet. Hopefully with the drainage and the ventilation the condensation will eventually dry out. I'll keep you posted if there is a change.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good News!

My light is now nice and dry after almost 2 weeks with several inches of rain and driving through a car wash a couple of times. This was after reinstalling the light with the water still inside, as there was no practical way to get it out.

I highlighted the area where I drilled a small hole (on each side). You can just barely see it. I also highlighted the upper corner where there may have been a slight separation between the clear and the black plastic. It was open just enough to slip in a thin piece of paper, although I couldn't tell if it went all the way through. I rubbed in a little silicone sealant on each corner at the seam. Of course, this was all done with the light removed.

If you try this take precaution that the bit doesn't drill too deep and damage the inner parts!

So far, so good.

Mike

 

Fixed light.jpg

Tail light circled.jpg

Upper tail light.jpg

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Nice one Mike - I am sure this will come in handy for many searching for an answer to this issue and I personally would be looking to do something like this if I have issues again. Out of interest did you just drill in horizontally or at an angle? Any idea of drill size?  Please keep us posted if the situation changes with your fix!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/27/2020 at 9:05 AM, undercoveredge said:

Nice one Mike - I am sure this will come in handy for many searching for an answer to this issue and I personally would be looking to do something like this if I have issues again. Out of interest did you just drill in horizontally or at an angle? Any idea of drill size?  Please keep us posted if the situation changes with your fix!

I drilled straight up through the black plastic underneath. I used a 3/16" or about a 5 mm bit. I wrapped several rounds of tape around the bit to keep from going too deep and hitting the red plastic.

So far the moisture has not returned. 

My idea to use such a small bit was to keep out insects. I suppose you could drill a bigger hole and maybe glue a piece of window screen around it if necessary. 

Best to everyone and hope yours works out. 

Mike

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  • 4 weeks later...

Here's a few observations I did for the FaceBook Edge group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/138628829877764/?ref=bookmarks ) where the same issues are constantly being discussed

A couple of months on I have not seen any signs of excessive condensation anywhere in the light unit - just the faintest of misting on one side - I will see how it goes over winter before coming to any firm conclusions

Rear Lightbar.pdf

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  • 6 months later...

What if drill  a small hole on the side of rear lift light bar... otherwise there is no change in condensation already for a month.... ????? Did that... now have to wait for a warm weather and have the rear in sun for some time...?

 

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