FIESTA Mk7.5 1.6 TDCI 95DPF VNT TURBO RETROFIT

[M6 44t car park attendant]

Hi guys

First off let me introduce myself, you won't have met me yet....I'm the new boy 😊

I have a background as a semi skilled mechanic, semi, as I don' yet know it all!!

 

So, I'm about to start retrofitting the GTC1244VZ VNT turbo from a 2015 1.6tdci Focus 115bhp, Ford could have saved me a job and just released the Fiesta with the correct power output but they didn't!! 😏 (that should give you some idea as to what comes next!)

I'm lead to believe the current turbo is a wastegated TD025 however I've inspected the plate on the compressor housing, it wasn't all that revealing 😒

The current turbo appears to be ECU controlled by vacuum via a N75 type 'pressure converter valve' fed by the brake pump.

My first consideration is the action of a wastegate being either open or closed, generally speaking at least; VNT has many increments between rest and full travel. Secondly, the wastegate is normally closed at rest, providing max boost; provided it has spooled up. Whereas the VNT setup (usually) the vanes are fully open at rest which obviously results in no boost at low rpm.

This effectively means, although both engines are identical. The boost control is controlled in an opposite fashion.

So, flash the ECU with the correct software to operate a VNT Turbo?? The map from the Focus 115 should do? Actually no, the 115 and the 105 use the Siemens ECU so the only option would be the old 110 hdi/tdci maps, they operated on an older Bosch ECU so it's not guaranteed to work either.

My ECU is a EDC17C10 with the latest tricore and password protection, I'm sure it could be done, but it could go horribly wrong and cost thousands for a new ecu set plus it's keyless 😣 moving on then!!

My next consideration is using an electronic controller, it is supplied as a full kit taking some sensor readings from it's own included sensors. T into the vac pump use it's own N75 valve and hey presto we should have VNT on the fizzie.

I have ordered the kit 160 all in if it won' work the seller will allow a return for refund so it's a fairly safe gamble. I have a mechanical boost gauge installed anyway so I can shut it down if it goes a little Pete.

Any suggestions out there? I know there will be some out there who will start by saying 'buy a bigger car' 'bigger turbo' ECT....if I wanted to drive something bigger I'd jump in the 13l R450 Scania, unit only turn the traction control off and have some real fun. Please, those types of comments are not required or wanted please troll elsewhere.

Pics will start as it develops....first, the donor turbo 

[M6 44t car park attendant]

I've had the compressor housing off to check and clean ECT...

Turbine housing this weekend, controller arriving sometime next week

[Ryan_Tango]

Following. Would be interested to see what you can make of this, I'm after putting a bigger turbo in my 1.6 115ps TDCi not sure where to start but this would give me a few ideas. :)

[M6 44t car park attendant]

**please delete post**

Edited December 30, 2017 by M6 44t car park attendant
Messed up the quote

[M6 44t car park attendant]

3 hours ago, Ryan_Tango said:

Following. Would be interested to see what you can make of this, I'm after putting a bigger turbo in my 1.6 115ps TDCi not sure where to start but this would give me a few ideas. :)

A bigger VNT setup should be easy; provided you have the 115ps Focus.

You already have VNT control, the question is. How much bigger?

As a general rule of thumb the following applies.

GT C 1244 VZ

GT = this represents a series or model of turbo by Garrett

C = this is an optimised version of the second generation of turbo charger (B is second gen, D is third gen and first gen don't include a letter after GT)

12 = Compressor wheel size

44 = turbine wheel side (exhaust)

V = VNT/VGT

Z = Just means compact size

What turbo do you have? What pressure do you want to run? What pressure are you running now?

It's worth noting that you must keep the turbo to the right of the surge line on the compressor map. It looks alot more complicated than it is, see the compressor map below for a GT1241 the surge line is the curved line on the left, rising from bottom left to center right.

To the left of this area the compressor wheel will exert too much thrust against the film of oil that normally prevents metal to metal contact, eventually the turbo will fail. Surge is caused by too high a pressure and too low air flow; it is more complex than this but in layman's terms. 

Another consideration is EGT, it is entirely possible to melt the turbine wheel by either injecting too much diesel or by trying to overdrive the turbine wheel.

I would suggest unless you can get your head around all the turbo tech,(Garrett has some good info for any tech level) you stick to what the manufacturers put on this vehicle. The GT1544v from the older Focus has a larger compressor wheel and should see you right for 150hp ish; with a remap that is!! Although the current turbo should put you around 130hp with remap. Compare the differences in the map for the 1544v against the 1241v

Ok so it's not a perfect comparison, it's a 1241 not a 1244 but it won' be far off.

Hope this helps ya pal, good luck 😉

 

sorry, still trying to get used to this site 😂

Also, a larger FMIC would help you a great deal, even on stock pressures....dense air = more volume = more fuel can be introduced.

Ever noticed how much faster your car is on a cold winter morning 🤗

[TomsFocus]

Looks like an interesting project!  I've seen standalone Raspberry Pi used for VNT control on older cars so that might be a possibility, but not sure how well it would work on modern stuff.  I wonder if the EDC16 of the 110 Focus would be useful?  The engines are quite different, 16 valve, bigger but less efficient VNT turbo (GT1544) and the injectors are different as well, but the 16 is fairly easily mappable and already contains VNT control.  Whatever you do, the mapping will be the hard part tbh.  You've also gotta be careful to keep the soot levels down for the DPF unless you're planning on removing that - not really recommended these days though.

I know it's not a Peugeot, but there are some VERY knowledgeable HDi guys over on 306oc.co.uk that I'm sure could advise you...turbo swaps are far more common over there than they are on here lol!

[Ryan_Tango]

6 hours ago, M6 44t car park attendant said:

A bigger VNT setup should be easy; provided you have the 115ps Focus.

You already have VNT control, the question is. How much bigger?

As a general rule of thumb the following applies.

GT C 1244 VZ

GT = this represents a series or model of turbo by Garrett

C = this is an optimised version of the second generation of turbo charger (B is second gen, D is third gen and first gen don't include a letter after GT)

12 = Compressor wheel size

44 = turbine wheel side (exhaust)

V = VNT/VGT

Z = Just means compact size

What turbo do you have? What pressure do you want to run? What pressure are you running now?

It's worth noting that you must keep the turbo to the right of the surge line on the compressor map. It looks alot more complicated than it is, see the compressor map below for a GT1241 the surge line is the curved line on the left, rising from bottom left to center right.

To the left of this area the compressor wheel will exert too much thrust against the film of oil that normally prevents metal to metal contact, eventually the turbo will fail. Surge is caused by too high a pressure and too low air flow; it is more complex than this but in layman's terms. 

Another consideration is EGT, it is entirely possible to melt the turbine wheel by either injecting too much diesel or by trying to overdrive the turbine wheel.

I would suggest unless you can get your head around all the turbo tech,(Garrett has some good info for any tech level) you stick to what the manufacturers put on this vehicle. The GT1544v from the older Focus has a larger compressor wheel and should see you right for 150hp ish; with a remap that is!! Although the current turbo should put you around 130hp with remap. Compare the differences in the map for the 1544v against the 1241v

Ok so it's not a perfect comparison, it's a 1241 not a 1244 but it won' be far off.

Hope this helps ya pal, good luck 😉

 

sorry, still trying to get used to this site 😂

Also, a larger FMIC would help you a great deal, even on stock pressures....dense air = more volume = more fuel can be introduced.

Ever noticed how much faster your car is on a cold winter morning 🤗

My head just exploded, going to save all that and read a few more times lol, I am currently running 150bhp on the standard turbo looking at getting it to at least 185. Thank you for your help I'm sure it will shed light on a few things for other members too :) Not sure how much boost pressure I currently have will have to try get the car plugged into the laptop see what that can tell me other than that It will; be going to a mechanic who can help me find out, once again thank you for your help.

[M6 44t car park attendant]

10 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Looks like an interesting project!  I've seen standalone Raspberry Pi used for VNT control on older cars so that might be a possibility, but not sure how well it would work on modern stuff.  I wonder if the EDC16 of the 110 Focus would be useful?  The engines are quite different, 16 valve, bigger but less efficient VNT turbo (GT1544) and the injectors are different as well, but the 16 is fairly easily mappable and already contains VNT control.  Whatever you do, the mapping will be the hard part tbh.  You've also gotta be careful to keep the soot levels down for the DPF unless you're planning on removing that - not really recommended these days though.

I know it's not a Peugeot, but there are some VERY knowledgeable HDi guys over on 306oc.co.uk that I'm sure could advise you...turbo swaps are far more common over there than they are on here lol!

I believe the controller to be something along them lines, it interrupts the factory map sensor. Tells the ECU it' getting a max of 18psi. The ecu won't detect an overboost but the DPF pressure sensor may sense a pressure difference (edit *Also the MAF might, I have a theory on a cure for that) but my aim isn't to up the max boost pressure anyway, rather to have the benefit of a higher flow and boost at practically any RPM. The other thing is the wiring plug for the VNT turbo, here's hoping the ECU doesn't throw a code for the actuator not directly responding to it's vacuum commands. I do have a theoretical work around for this too but I won' know until I actually get arms deep. It'l be next weekend weather permitting!!

Since there aren't many photos of the exh side of the GTC1244VZ I'll post one 😊

If anything, this should make it less sooty as it will be burning lean In low to mid range, I can account for this by a VERY slight tweeks to fuel rail pressure. (It can take a little more, manufacturers do tend to be fairly safe with high pressure liquids on the design capability side)

I had hoped for a more efficient atomization with the old focus/hdi 110 injectors. Back to the drawing board if it' a different head altogether, they will be too long.

What about the Bosch 0445110188 they are fitted to the 8v 109hp HDI and Volvo motors?

No, I don't want to remove the DPF, I personally don't like black soot billowing out. Besides, DVSA are pulling cars and they CAN tell it's been removed. It already was an offence to remove the internals only now it' being policed. I'm a great believer in efficiency over brute force. My next steps will be a FMIC to further reduce charge density.

The EGR However, it' days are numbered, I don't believe for one second that destroying engines is any better for the environment than the benefits it provides. Any ideas on That? 

I agree it's a PSA motor but I'm having nothing to do with the frenchies 😁😝

Edited December 31, 2017 by M6 44t car park attendant
Marked edit

[TomsFocus]

The DPF pressure sensor shouldn't cause a problem, it doesn't directly measure pressure, just the pressure difference between the top and bottom of the DPF core so it'll only throw a fault/start a regen if there's a blockage in the core.  Depending on how you choose to map and which ECU you go with, it might be easiest to remove the MAF from the map with no bad effects.  I know quite a few people that run MAFless maps on HDi's.  The EGR is easy to map out, and physically blank at the same time.  However the EGR is used to help heat up the exhaust during DPF regen.  The fuelling is also adjusted and a few other things (intercooler bypassed, glow plugs used etc) so it may regen ok in the real world without the EGR but I can't say for sure.  

I agree it should be less sooty but only if it's mapped right.  VNTs don't quite give boost from idle so you don't want too much fuel at the bottom end smoking pre-boost, and as the sensors go out of range at the top end and the VNT goes out of it's efficiency band, it will usually be sooty at high rpm as well.  You don't want it to lean out too much either though, and melt the engine together after a week lol.  As I say, it shouldn't be an issue for a mapper to set up right and you'll rarely be hitting that top end anyway due to the midrange torque.

I'm not sure which injectors would be best, I think the head on the 8v DV6 is (was) a totally new design but hopefully someone else has a better input there!  The 110 injectors were never great though, they were a good replacement for the Mk6 Fiesta but were a bit limiting on the Focus.  Depends how much power you're after I guess though, as you say it's more about the driveability than outright power.

FMIC should definitely help further, are you going to buy a 'proper' upgraded one or use a generic eBay kit?  If using an eBay kit, definitely get a pipe beader...I had pipes popping off all over the place to start with!  

[M6 44t car park attendant]

5 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

The DPF pressure sensor shouldn't cause a problem, it doesn't directly measure pressure, just the pressure difference between the top and bottom of the DPF core so it'll only throw a fault/start a regen if there's a blockage in the core.  Depending on how you choose to map and which ECU you go with, it might be easiest to remove the MAF from the map with no bad effects.  I know quite a few people that run MAFless maps on HDi's.  The EGR is easy to map out, and physically blank at the same time.  However the EGR is used to help heat up the exhaust during DPF regen.  The fuelling is also adjusted and a few other things (intercooler bypassed, glow plugs used etc) so it may regen ok in the real world without the EGR but I can't say for sure.  

I agree it should be less sooty but only if it's mapped right.  VNTs don't quite give boost from idle so you don't want too much fuel at the bottom end smoking pre-boost, and as the sensors go out of range at the top end and the VNT goes out of it's efficiency band, it will usually be sooty at high rpm as well.  You don't want it to lean out too much either though, and melt the engine together after a week lol.  As I say, it shouldn't be an issue for a mapper to set up right and you'll rarely be hitting that top end anyway due to the midrange torque.

I'm not sure which injectors would be best, I think the head on the 8v DV6 is (was) a totally new design but hopefully someone else has a better input there!  The 110 injectors were never great though, they were a good replacement for the Mk6 Fiesta but were a bit limiting on the Focus.  Depends how much power you're after I guess though, as you say it's more about the driveability than outright power.

FMIC should definitely help further, are you going to buy a 'proper' upgraded one or use a generic ebay kit?  If using an ebay kit, definitely get a pipe beader...I had pipes popping off all over the place to start with!  

I believe the leaner you run a diesel the cooler it will run, petrol is quite the opposite however..

I'm going to keep the factory Ford map and sensors as mentioned in the first post, I'd be surprised if they didn't spend thousands into designing it to be a good all round usable and efficient power under most situations, if I can accentuate the action that the ECU is taking in response to it's sensor readings(rail pressure, injection modulation ECT.) By essentially fooling the sensors and thereby the parameters the map is supposed to adhere to. #Think like a volume switch or amplifier. - This way, I retain its features such as it backs off the fuel at high rpm for less soot. 

I'm not expecting boost at idle of course, only when we have an energetic exhaust flow will the turbo spool up.

I read somewhere that using the nozzles from the 335d m3 on the focus 110 injectors made them much better but if they were only fitted to the 16v it's out the window 😆 having more pressure in the rail is an easy way to increase the spray atomisation at the expense of the injector and pump but I'll only be making minor increases anyway.

That's interesting about the EGR 👍 I suppose in that case, I could recirculate fresh charge from the intercooler and blank the exhaust....The EGR valve would need relocating to the inlet side before the butterfly. Activation of the EGR already causes more fuel to be injected and later too so it should only help to reduce the soot anyway. The NOx will increase however....a sport cat could combat that if it's ever tested at MOT.

I don't think I'll be looking for an intercooler yet but it may well be a China special 😊 I don' see why not, most things come from there anyway, just gotta watch the QC 👌

[M6 44t car park attendant]

Here goes.

 

It fits, however there really isn't alot of room down there now......shoe-horning springs to mind!! The original turbo was tiny 😆 for reference it's a TD02H2 

The oil feed and return pipes are not interchangeable, the Transit connect 1.6tdci also uses this new turbo and the parts are somewhat easier to come by 👍🏻

I'm using an electronic boost controller called a Digibooster S; it takes the factory MAP sensor and limits it's signals to the factory maximum pressure in this case 20psi. For it's own calculations and to control the vanes it uses a separate 3bar map sensor(more than enough😁) a power feed and a vacuum controller, obviously it requires a feed from the vac pump.

 

I decided to just see what the car thought and fired her up, it was obvious fairly quickly that it would grossly overboost it it was allowed to, also due to the nature of the resistance values from the sensor. (They'e almost opposite to each other.....) 

Standard turbo wastegate position sensor:

##(The sensor on the VNT is virtually opposite on resistance direction I.E starts at the other end of the scale)##

With the actuator resting i.e. engine off 4k ohms, after engine start the vehicle pumps down the actuator and 'closes the wastegate' the resistance drops to around 1.9k ohms this returns a voltage of around 4.1v to the ECU for positional info.

In the above operation I hoped to find that the system may 'regulate' it' own boost afterall it has a map sensor?? .....it did not however. Also, it could not find it's factory set point 'That magical voltage' it also overboosted because the wastegate acts much faster for a shorter travel and so the resistance values were out of sync; it basically would not respond to that calibration. I know think I can overcome this recognising it's calibration by swapping pins 2 and 3 in the sensor plug, this makes both sensors operate down the same scale with full vacuum as a LOW resistance. However I still think that it will overboost it doesn't have the control aspect in it's maps.

For the meantime at least, I have the Digibooster S controlling the VNT I can adjust the turbos spool characteristics from that unit and fine tune max pressures to emulate the previous turbo with NO ERRORS 😁🍻 However, it's a bodge for now as it's my daily and it must run! I took the actuator off the old turbo and rigged it up to the cars vacuum controller and sensor, it actually pulls too far and goes out of sync since it isn't hitting the wastegate and stopping....two copper wasters slid on and keep it upright and she runs.....

Chances are I could loose this bodge by getting a vacuum sensor that replicates the resistance values of the original turbo wastegate.....in relation to the vacuum controller.

With regard to having this mapped in permanently, I'm in contact to the only other person in Europe at least that has done this and it's positive... he has managed 140bhp and 320mn on the standard injectors, you would need an intercooler for that however as the standard one doesn't do enough.  I'l post more details about this as I progress.

What I can say is the car pulls really hard, It has 5 psi at 1500rpm,

15psi by 1700rpm  

20psi by 2000rpm

24psi  by 3500rpm

Ps. I measure pressures before the intercooler these are slightly higher

At the manifold the maximum pressure observed was 21.5 psi

 

This is with the controller on a med-low setting

Pick up/max boost respectively. 

The absolute biggest difference is the pick up, the motor seems so much less restricted now and is rev happy!

The EGT is very slightly lower than before which indicates I am now running lean, I'll need to increase the fuel or drop the boost back to heat the DPF core, otherwise I'll quickly have problems!!

 

Any questions?? 🤓

[M6 44t car park attendant]

I'm back to update this post.

 

I removed this turbo due to underboost/overboost faults when on motorway.

 

I'm currently working on a more OEM fit option.

I'll be back!

[Nightraven]

Apologies for restarting an old thread. Do you have any updates after that? Were you able to install an OEM fit option?