Battery

[The Latman]

My heated front screen hasn't been working recently & I've discovered that neither is the auto stop start system.  I stuck a meter on the battery and found it sitting dead on 12v ).  The car starts OK, sounds a little wheezy, just a touch though, when turning over.

I had her out on an 160 mile round trip a week and a half ago, but nothing major since.  Could the battery be dodgy, or is it just the cold eking away the charge?

Lat

[FatHead1979]

If the battery voltage at "rest" was 12 volts then that's not far off being dead, although you may have parasitic draw which is sapping the battery charge.

What kind of journeys do you normally do each week?  (Diesels take quite a lot of power to start, especially in cold weather and with all the modern modern toys turned on so if the car is mainly just doing short journeys the battery might not be getting the chance to charge back up after the initial hit from starting your car).

[The Latman]

At the moment only really short journeys, so youve  basically confirmed what I suspected.

 

took her out for a run this evening, about an hour in total cruising on motorways.   Checked the battery again when I got home and it’s now showing 12.30. (Start stop still not working, but it’s -1/0 degrees at the moment and I’ve read low temps can also disable the start stop system?)

is it a new battery situation or just make sure I give the car a good run every week?

Thanks,

 

Lat

[pragmatix]

It's surprising how short a journey it takes to recharge to full capacity with a modern Ford with smart charge, 

[FatHead1979]

15 minutes ago, The Latman said:

At the moment only really short journeys, so youve  basically confirmed what I suspected.

 

took her out for a run this evening, about an hour in total cruising on motorways.   Checked the battery again when I got home and it’s now showing 12.30. (Start stop still not working, but it’s -1/0 degrees at the moment and I’ve read low temps can also disable the start stop system?)

is it a new battery situation or just make sure I give the car a good run every week?

Thanks,

 

Lat

I part I guess it depends how much damage has been done to the battery, lots of garages will do a free battery check which is a proper test that should confirm if the battery is still capable of delivering the performance required.

[cjay1]

I would fully recharge the battery with a charger then reset the battery by switching ignition on for 10 seconds then press fog lights x5 then hazard switch x3 the battery light should then flash. Of stop start still don't work replace the battery.

[The Latman]

Thanks all, think I’ll try and get it checked over the next few days.

out of interest, what should a fully charged battery show voltage wise?

[cjay1]

12.7+

[pragmatix]

Voltage alone is no a true indicator of a batteries health, it needs a proper load test, lots of places will do battery checks but make sure they do a load test with a proper tester and not just a multimeter

[The Latman]

2 hours ago, pragmatix said:

Voltage alone is no a true indicator of a batteries health, it needs a proper load test, lots of places will do battery checks but make sure they do a load test with a proper tester and not just a multimeter

True..

The car is being booked into the dealer at the end of the month.  On reflection, this all seemed to start after they recalled the car to upgrade the parking brake software.  Not saying that's why this is happening, but it is a coincidence.  I went through most of last year with a few weeks going by at a time without any big journeys and the car never let me down.  

I stuck my meter back on the battery this morning and got 12.15, didn't seem as cold last night either. What temperature range should the stop start be active in?

Thanks for all the replies and advice all, very helpful bunch you are :-)

Lat

[Kyutu]

Just to chime in with my own experience with this:

I have an Econetic variant with the Start/Stop and neither that nor the heated front screen ever work for me neither, and I also do regular short journeys.

I chucked it in to Ford once to see what they could do and they simply charged the battery, which fixed the issue temporarily but it soon returned to it's usual non-functioning self.

I have since purchased a decent Ring battery charger and have only so far charged it overnight on occasion and it seems to take the car numerous hours (think overnight) before it learns the new battery charge state, and as such you'll find it tends to all work again the following day after charging.  The charger always says that my battery level is 70% whenever i check it, and from what I have read the car requires 76% or there abouts before it'll allow the SS/HFS to be used.

 

I'm currently contemplating replacing the battery to see if that helps keep a better charge, otherwise my only other alternative is to give it a really good overnight charge again and ensure I do regular longer journeys.  I always find it frustrating that my mk7 fez never let me down in this department but the Mondeo just has too much going on to keep its charge.  Still, can't blame it with a ruddy big screen thats always on etc.

[The Latman]

12 minutes ago, Kyutu said:

Just to chime in with my own experience with this:

I have an Econetic variant with the Start/Stop and neither that nor the heated front screen ever work for me neither, and I also do regular short journeys.

I chucked it in to Ford once to see what they could do and they simply charged the battery, which fixed the issue temporarily but it soon returned to it's usual non-functioning self.

I have since purchased a decent Ring battery charger and have only so far charged it overnight on occasion and it seems to take the car numerous hours (think overnight) before it learns the new battery charge state, and as such you'll find it tends to all work again the following day after charging.  The charger always says that my battery level is 70% whenever i check it, and from what I have read the car requires 76% or there abouts before it'll allow the SS/HFS to be used.

 

I'm currently contemplating replacing the battery to see if that helps keep a better charge, otherwise my only other alternative is to give it a really good overnight charge again and ensure I do regular longer journeys.  I always find it frustrating that my mk7 fez never let me down in this department but the Mondeo just has too much going on to keep its charge.  Still, can't blame it with a ruddy big screen thats always on etc.

Thanks for the post.  Mine is the econetic too and most last year was shorter journeys, it’s only been since the cold snap (as well as the software upgrade!) that this has started.  

Ive a funny feeling the dealer will just charge the battery and be done with it.  Honestly as long as I keep giving her a run once a week that should do the trick!

[The Latman]

Decided to pull out an Apple cable (though it wasn't connected) and a USB phone charger (again not connected) from the 2 front sockets, took her for another smaller run, this time the resting voltage when I got back was 12.5v (Stop/Start still not working).  Wonder if one of these 2 devices has developed a fault and is drawing too much power or something, I'll try and narrow it down by elimination later this evening.

I've had an Apple cable develop a fault, but the car would report this every time I connected the cable by telling me this accessory was drawing too much power or something.  That cable was subsequently binned as it didn't work anyway.  

She's booked into the dealer for the end of the month anyway.

[Kyutu]

Decided to pull out an Apple cable (though it wasn't connected) and a USB phone charger (again not connected) from the 2 front sockets, took her for another smaller run, this time the resting voltage when I got back was 12.5v (Stop/Start still not working).  Wonder if one of these 2 devices has developed a fault and is drawing too much power or something, I'll try and narrow it down by elimination later this evening.
I've had an Apple cable develop a fault, but the car would report this every time I connected the cable by telling me this accessory was drawing too much power or something.  That cable was subsequently binned as it didn't work anyway.  
She's booked into the dealer for the end of the month anyway.

I have a 64gb usb thumb drive permanently plugged in the arm rest usb socket on mine, the thought has crossed my mind that there could be an issue with power usage but have not really tried troubleshooting, I'm assuming a simple MP3 drive wouldn't warrant worrying about. But I have certainly heard of people having genuine power drainage via their usb devices leading to naff batteries.

If be interested to hear your findings with your cables...

[The Latman]

34 minutes ago, Kyutu said:

I have a 64gb usb thumb drive permanently plugged in the arm rest usb socket on mine, the thought has crossed my mind that there could be an issue with power usage but have not really tried troubleshooting, I'm assuming a simple MP3 drive wouldn't warrant worrying about. But I have certainly heard of people having genuine power drainage via their usb devices leading to naff batteries.

If be interested to hear your findings with your cables...

I actually just completed another resting voltage probe with my multimeter, nothing is plugged into the car and as I mentioned when I left her last night the meter read 12.5, today its reading 12.3, whilst shes been in the driveway overnight.

I don't think these plugged in devices were causing a drain as power to those sockets is cut off shortly after locking the car, I was more concerned they were preventing the battery from getting enough power to charge.

I'll try the same route again with one of them connected, then again with the other and see what happens.  (Costing me a fortune in Diesel :-) )

[pragmatix]

Don't forget that low temperature will give a low voltage reading

[Proz]

I was having the same issue ... i replaced the battery and problem solved 

Heated screen works every time and start stop works so well its getting annoying 

See here ...

 

[The Latman]

On 1/13/2018 at 1:44 PM, Proz said:

I was having the same issue ... i replaced the battery and problem solved 

Heated screen works every time and start stop works so well its getting annoying 

See here ...

 

Excellent, I hope the dealer changes the battery - I doubt it though.

So further weirdness occurred.  On Sunday, took the car out for a family run, plenty of time in the car and plenty of miles.  By Sunday evening, Start/Stop still was not working.  Took her out yesterday evening for a quick 10 minute trip to the shops, 5 minutes in and I'm stopped at a roundabout, SS icon is greyed out, I deactivated the system, then reactivated it, and lo and behold the car stopped.  I then drove to another roundabout and stopped, the grey icon appeared, then about 2 seconds later it went green and stopped again.

Seems to be quite intermittent that it will actually work automatically, but Im going to test it by deactivating then reactivating whenever possible!

Lat

[Bob3]

One of the problems on the Mk5 is that the alternator only charges on acceleration and decouples on the overrun. I wonder if these fancy pulleys are to blame.


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[FatHead1979]

12 hours ago, Bob3 said:

One of the problems on the Mk5 is that the alternator only charges on acceleration and decouples on the overrun. I wonder if these fancy pulleys are to blame.


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Ah, one of fun engineering decisions made on most modern cars to maximise MPG, personally I think I'd rather have a fully charged battery! 

[Bob3]

Yes along with plastic thermostat housings, but thats a story for another day....


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[The Latman]

Update....

Was out for a 150 mile round trip drive on Wednesday, on the initial leg of 75 miles S/S did not operate, when I returned it did and whilst in S/S if I turned on the front heated screen, S/S cancelled and returned the engine to service. I presume this meant the screen was heating and needed the engine on to compensate for the power usage.  Car was booked into the dealer yesterday, and once again the S/S didn't operate until I got there (about 15 miles).

Spoke to the tech yesterday afternoon, he reckons the battery is suspect but all the diags come back as a good battery.  They're going to do a cold start this morning and let me know (good morning for it, frosty and really cold.)

Still waiting for an update from them.

[Proz]

My car ( MK 5 ) showed no sign of any battery issues ... started fist time every time. No hint of any kind of battery weakening at all.

The only reason i decided to change the battery was by being on here and on google. 

Everything with heated screen and S/S issues was found to be battery related so i took the plunge and changed it myself even though the car is still under the 3 year warranty.

I couldn't be bothered with the usual issue of not having the car for days while they mucked about then say theirs nothing wrong with it.

As said i googled something like " heated screen and S/S issue " and almost everything stated battery would be at fault on all the forums.

[The Latman]

OK, so despite all their testing telling them the battery is good, they have a battery on order and my car is booked in a week Friday to have it changed.  Annoyingly, since I got the car back, S/S  has worked flawlessly.

[Proz]

5 hours ago, The Latman said:

OK, so despite all their testing telling them the battery is good, they have a battery on order and my car is booked in a week Friday to have it changed.  Annoyingly, since I got the car back, S/S  has worked flawlessly.

They've probably charged the battery ...