1.6 tdci engine stutter 18-2200 revs

[isetta]

I too have the tunnelrat £16 code reader and the free software. Every Ford owner should have one just in case. It saves you the inconvenience of driving to a garage to get the does read, let alone saving the cost.

One of the problems with the codes being read is that they do not show dates/times so when you get to the garage you find there are say 5 codes but you don't know if any are two weeks old and any are two hours old.

At least with your own code reader you can reset/clear the codes and then when the fault/stutter shows up you can check it straightaway to see what code appeared at that point.

My brother's car is playing up, I read the codes and there were about 8 varying things. I cleared them, drove round the block and only 2 codes reappeared which helps narrow it down.

[n_hudson]

So the car has FINALLY been into my Local Ford Garage and they think they have found the fault... which could possibly explain the clutch problem I reported here - 

 

 

They think my clutch is slipping, intermittently, causing the lack of power, engine rev problems and the clutch pedal problem is likely the Slave Cylinder failing. 

Now, I'm no expert, but I had a clutch slip on an old car and when that was going, the clutch slipped and the revs kept climbing, not dropping? 

Anyone heard of this, intermittent clutch slip and climbing\falling revs?

Cheers again. 

 

 

[Tdci-Peter]

34 minutes ago, n_hudson said:

Now, I'm no expert, but I had a clutch slip on an old car and when that was going, the clutch slipped and the revs kept climbing, not dropping? 

Anyone heard of this, intermittent clutch slip and climbing\falling revs?

I have had clutch slip on two cars, and it was extremely obvious, the revs would just start to rise if you opened up the throttle, without any appreciable speed increase.

It went through three stages: First it would slip if I applied power while releasing the clutch on a gear change, but if I was gentle with the change, it would then grip ok. Second it would start slipping under full throttle. Third it would slip at any appreciable power, and I could pull away like in an auto, with the clutch fully released. Fourth, take it to the garage, and pay under £100 (then!) for a new clutch.

These old cars did not have ABS, traction control or ESP. But this all works off speed differences between wheels. It can not really detect rising revs and cut the power, or you would notice it cutting in on some gear changes. So I can't see this making any difference.

If the slave cylinder was sticking in mid travel, then surely the slip would be severe and very obvious to the driver, with rising revs.

Without actually driving the car, it is hard to be sure, but I think I would seek another opinion before splashing out on a clutch & slave cylinder change.

 

[n_hudson]

1 hour ago, Tdci-Peter said:

I have had clutch slip on two cars, and it was extremely obvious, the revs would just start to rise if you opened up the throttle, without any appreciable speed increase.

It went through three stages: First it would slip if I applied power while releasing the clutch on a gear change, but if I was gentle with the change, it would then grip ok. Second it would start slipping under full throttle. Third it would slip at any appreciable power, and I could pull away like in an auto, with the clutch fully released. Fourth, take it to the garage, and pay under £100 (then!) for a new clutch.

These old cars did not have ABS, traction control or ESP. But this all works off speed differences between wheels. It can not really detect rising revs and cut the power, or you would notice it cutting in on some gear changes. So I can't see this making any difference.

If the slave cylinder was sticking in mid travel, then surely the slip would be severe and very obvious to the driver, with rising revs.

Without actually driving the car, it is hard to be sure, but I think I would seek another opinion before splashing out on a clutch & slave cylinder change.

 

What you describe, is what I imagined and experienced on other cars. 

I've booked it in for clutch, DMF, slave with the diagnostic, all in £745 and some change. Which is much cheaper than I was quoted elsewhere. 

I think the Slave needs changing anyway due to the clutch pedal travel issue, so was expecting that, so with the box off, I probably should just get it all done anyway and not worry (touch wood) for another 60k+. 

On a side note... I read the EGr is quite reliable on this car (?) but where is it located in the 'bay and how easy is it to clean and remove?

 

[Tdci-Peter]

4 hours ago, n_hudson said:

where is it located in the 'bay

It is at the bottom of the photo below, the slightly conical black thing above the white paper is part of it.

It looks like it would be very easy to remove if the engine was not in the car, but rather hard to get at in-situ!

I seem to recall iantt saying it rarely went wrong, but I can't find the thread.

[n_hudson]

So to add to this long running topic - 

I have had the clutch, DMF and Slave replaced... ALL previously mentioned complaints seem to be gone!  

 

** Although ** 

I've now noticed, since I have had the car back, that there is a knocking noise (metal on metal) like something is loose intermittently, when I turn right whilst moving. I haven't had the chance to get the car up and get the tray off to have a look, but I did check the wheel bolts etc.  

What has to be removed, dropped to get the box out and clutch replaced? 

Reading google search threads, could it be a CV or lower ball joint? 

I'm dreading having to take it back and possibly be charged for MY time and THEIRs...

Cheers!  

[n_hudson]

Hopefully video links are allowed and work - 

I discovered this to be the issue after my recent clutch change at a Ford Main dealer... its being investigated by Ford on Monday 

 

 

 

[Dee_82]

Damn! 

looks like the knuckle is moving about!

[TomsFocus]

Which dealer was that!?

I reckon they popped the wishbone off to save messing with the ball joint and left one of the wishbone bolts loose.

[FatHead1979]

15 hours ago, n_hudson said:

Hopefully video links are allowed and work - 

I discovered this to be the issue after my recent clutch change at a Ford Main dealer... its being investigated by Ford on Monday 

 

 

 

WOW, how can a so called "certified" mechanic let a car leave the workshop like that?!? 

[Dee_82]

that is a proper case of, holy crap -  shortly followed by an untimely death.

Dodged a bullet there mate, might want to put a lottery ticket on an blag as many freebies from them for keeping your mouth shut 🙂

 

 

 

[TomsFocus]

After watching it on the larger screen of the laptop, it looks like the wheel bearing may have collapsed, was the driveshaft bolt tight or even still in there when you took the wheel off?

[Dee_82]

right enough, the calliper doesn't appear to be moving and the disc is

[Phil21185]

Someone taken it for a spirited test drive?? Even so, unless your bearing was shot when you took it in (and you would know lol) that looks like total collapse.

Surely it's got to be a loose drive bolt? Would they have needed access behind the hub etc?

I ran on a dodgy front bearing for a while in a 1999 Laguna before scraping the cash together to get it done.

Guy said when he pulled the hub, the bearing just crumbled in his hands...

Lucky escape for you either way I think!

[n_hudson]

Well, i forgot to update.... 

 

YES it was the bearing apparently and wasn't anything to do with Ford... although I personally can't understand what a coincidence it was... 

As a show of good faith and the fact I'd just spent nearly £800 with them on the clutch etc, they did the wheel bearing for 50% of the cost, which still came to over £150... 

I've also noticed that since having all this work done, I think I have either a warped disc or the drivers side bearing is about to fail. 

[n_hudson]

On 5/21/2018 at 9:16 AM, TomsFocus said:

After watching it on the larger screen of the laptop, it looks like the wheel bearing may have collapsed, was the driveshaft bolt tight or even still in there when you took the wheel off?

I wouldn't know what I would have been looking at to be honest, I was only checking the wheel bolts lol

[Tdci-Peter]

3 hours ago, n_hudson said:

it was the bearing apparently and wasn't anything to do with Ford... although I personally can't understand what a coincidence it was... 

If the wheel bearing was on the way out before the clutch change, you would almost certainly have noticed a whining or droning noise that was very speed dependant. I have had both front wheel bearings go, about 12 months apart. In both cases I noticed the noise months before it became at all apparent that it could be the bearing. And my car is on 165k miles, possibly with original bearings.

Also from that, I know that driveshafts rust into the hubs, and it takes a lot of force to remove them. And also that this type of bearing is very, very sensitive to excess force applied axially. If the bearing is being changed, it does not matter if it gets damaged when hammering out the driveshaft. But it must be very tempting to whack the driveshaft with a big hammer when trying to free it off to remove a gearbox. And that will destroy the bearing almost certainly.

I can not say that is what they did, but if you had no symptoms of bearing failure before the change, and it failed a few dozen miles after ...?

In their defence, if the driveshafts have never been removed from new, it may have been almost impossible to remove them without damage, it is a very bad design in my view. But they could have warned you, and given you a price to do the bearings at the same time. A lot of the labour time would be common.

PS: I had the bearings done at a very good, experienced, local garage. (Central Motors, Bridport, in case anyone is local!) The owner immediately diagnosed the problem from a short test drive, and they seem to have done a good job. It was about £220 per wheel (inc VAT), not £300. The Ford dealer may not be being so generous as they claim.

 

[TomsFocus]

13 hours ago, n_hudson said:

I wouldn't know what I would have been looking at to be honest, I was only checking the wheel bolts lol

Behind the wheel in the centre of the hub there's a single bolt...can't go wrong checking that!  

I asked because I had one come loose on a Fiesta (although it's a nut rather than bolt on those)...drove on it for a few hundred miles thinking it was just dodgy tracking causing the weird pull as I'd just bought the car and had tracking booked in.  Wasn't until I jacked it up and found the wheel about to fall off lol.  Amazingly the bearing wasn't damaged at all, I just tightened the bolt and it's still on there now.  The bearing was almost certainly 'finished' by the driveshaft being removed for a clutch change, even if it was already on the way out, I think Ford are being a bit cheeky saying it's nothing to do with them but bearings don't just randomly collapse in my experience.  Either way, glad it's all sorted now!  

[n_hudson]

Thanks for the replies people... 

Just another Q... (FFS I hear you all sigh) 

I've noticed they opposite side that had the bearing replaced, the disc which is pretty new, is either now warped or not on perfectly.  I have taken the wheel off to try and reseat it, but I'm not sure thats the problem. 

I am about to light a fire... 

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, n_hudson said:

the disc which is pretty new, is either now warped or not on perfectly.  I have taken the wheel off to try and reseat it, but I'm not sure thats the problem. 

It could be there is some dirt under the disk, between disk and hub. To see this you would have to remove the caliper and caliper bracket. Quite an easy job as these things go, but needs care and a few good tools. Or go back to the garage, and hope they don't try to blame the disk, and say you need two new disks (at dealer rates)!