Mk2 1.6TDCi tapping noise

[south_bound]

Hi all, just wondering if I have a problem developing - driving along today and I could hear a fast tapping type of noise coming from the engine.  It only happened when accelerating under load at lowish revs and I could only hear it with the window down and as it was reflected off garden walls and houses.  No noise when in neutral or cruising/decelerating in gear, or at higher revs (unless the noise of the engine itself was drowning it out).  Opened up the bonnet when I got home and there was nothing untoward, no obvious leaks on hoses or at the injectors, and no noise at all even when revving it up.  the only thing I noticed is that the oil was a bit low (expected that as I have a small drip from the sump plug) but it seemed a bit watery, not as black as normal.  Last changed about 7000 miles ago and due again soon.

Just wondering if this is the symptom of something about to cost me a load of money.  For info this is a 2007 1.6 TDCi engine with 135k miles on the clock, DPF and EGR disabled some years ago.  The car drives fine, except for this annoying noise. 

[isetta]

The tapping does not sound quite like this, but could it be injector seals leaking at base of injectors. usually more of a chuffing sound. is there wet diesel residue around any of the injectors?

It is not rare for these injector base seals to leak.  On my previous 1.6tdci fiesta they all leaked at different times, I cured them by doing them up a bit tighter (however you have to be careful because if you strip a thread or snap the stud you will have a major problem to sort out). Most people would say replace the copper washer seal.

[TomsFocus]

Low, thin oil won't be helping the lifters or chain tensioner.  I'd see if the noise goes after an oil change.

I had a weird tap on mine that was only noticeable when reflected off streets or central carriageway barriers, couldn't replicate it on the driveway...other people seemed to have it as well but no-one knew what it was, never got worse or better in all the time I owned it...still have no idea what it was!  

[south_bound]

My first thought was the injectors but it is more of a ticking or tapping noise than chuffing, and also it only happens when accelarating at low revs.  Nothing at idle or revving without driving and the injector seats look dry.  It disappears when the revs get above about 1800.

 

Tom, how long did you have that noise going on in your case?  I plan on changing the oil pretty sharpish and see how it comes out and if new oil and filter helps.

[south_bound]

Forgot to add that the Internet us full of scare stories about rod ends and bearing or drive train wear, some if them to do with lack of lubrication.  Is there any known  link between the turbo problems and general oil circulation on these 1.6 diesel engines?

[zain611]

1 hour ago, south_bound said:

Forgot to add that the Internet us full of scare stories about rod ends and bearing or drive train wear, some if them to do with lack of lubrication.  Is there any known  link between the turbo problems and general oil circulation on these 1.6 diesel engines?

Theres a oil feed pipe bolt which has a filter on it to stop any objects from going through it. If you don't keep up with the oil changes there starts to be small particles accumulating and begins to block the filter, restricting the oil getting to the turbo and eventually leading to premature turbo failure. 

Here's just a few pictures of removing my oil feed bolt. You take the cat off to get access to it. 

[TomsFocus]

14 hours ago, south_bound said:

Tom, how long did you have that noise going on in your case?  I plan on changing the oil pretty sharpish and see how it comes out and if new oil and filter helps.

3 years/30k miles...  I really don't think it was a 'fault' as such, but weird that I could never find what caused it.  I now drive a mk3 with the 8v 1.6TDCi and that doesn't make the same noise. 

14 hours ago, south_bound said:

Forgot to add that the Internet us full of scare stories about rod ends and bearing or drive train wear, some if them to do with lack of lubrication.  Is there any known  link between the turbo problems and general oil circulation on these 1.6 diesel engines?

Yes, the turbo problems are caused by lack of oil due to carbon blockages as Zain says.  However, the turbo would be the first thing to break from lack of lubrication due to the speeds it spins at.  Rod ends are a heavy knock not a light tap so won't be them.  I really would just change the oil and filter before worrying about it too much.

[south_bound]

So changed the oil and filter the other day and thought this had fixed it...but once the engine is warmed up the noise came back.  Maybe slightly less noisy, maybe not as I am just listening more intently.

 

As said above,  this is a quick tapping noise during acceleration at lowish revs up to about 1700 or 1800 rpm then it stops.  No other noticeable difference in the way it drives.  I haven't checked any codes yet so maybe that is the next thing to do although I only have a cheap bluetooth one that uses the Torque pro app on the phone so might not pick anything up anyway. 

[south_bound]

No real update except that the noise is really starting to wind me up!  Would a shot of 2 stroke oil or injector cleaner help I wonder - I have read about possible benefits before so might be worth a try anyway (can't do any harm)?  The other thing I have had half a mind to do is get a Terraclean treatment so this might be the time to do it.

[JONATHAN_11_80]

Hi, Our cmax 1.6tdci occasionally makes a tapping noise on overrun.  In our case it's the ecu calibrating the injectors.  Not sure if this is your issue.  To be honest all ford engines make some odd noises as they age.  My focus 1.8 petrol currently has an odd rattle from the engine which Is driving me nuts and has done 5000 miles so far since it started.

[south_bound]

2 hours ago, JONATHAN_11_80 said:

Hi, Our cmax 1.6tdci occasionally makes a tapping noise on overrun.  In our case it's the ecu calibrating the injectors.  Not sure if this is your issue.  To be honest all ford engines make some odd noises as they age.  My focus 1.8 petrol currently has an odd rattle from the engine which Is driving me nuts and has done 5000 miles so far since it started.

 

This noise only happens when accelerating at lowish revs once the engine has warmed up, not in overun or in neutral so sounds like something different.  I only noticed it a couple of weeks ago but that was with the windows down and radio off so maybe it was happening before and I just didn't know it.  Now of course I hear it all the time because I know its there!

[TomsFocus]

With noises being hard to describe online, could you ask a trustworthy garage to have a listen?

[JONATHAN_11_80]

Your oil feed to the turbo looks ok.  Have checked for end float on the turbo,  ie do the turbo vanes move.

[south_bound]

The turbo vanes look and feel fine as I check them every time I do an oil change.  I took a close look at the injectors and they don't seem to be leaking, as no noise and no mess around them (except some oil that missed the spout once when refilling).   I'm thinking it is either a belt tensioner or pulley that is starting to wear out, or maybe just a loose bolt that makes a rattle when the engine is in a particular rev range.  I need to find time to investigate some more...we'll see where it leads. 

[michaelburrows]

Iv a 2013 tdci 163 focus .i know exactly the noise you r refering to. Mine also does it. It sounds like an old petrol engine with the ignition timing wrong. The term was pinking. I have triedmiller diesel treatment  redex diesel treatment and super diesel. All to no avail. Just livi g with it.it seems to start when accelerating from low revs. I.e 2000 re s in 6th or 5th u till tbe poi t that i ease off on the accelerator.

[south_bound]

Yeah, I read about diesel pinking, and they have some other names for it as well when you go looking on the internet.  I haven't really found a site I can trust which offers a cure though - some say it needs a software update, some say to get Ford to recode the injectors, some say to change the injectors, some want to run an additive, some tell you to stop putting petrol in the diesel tank...you can see where this is going!

It hasn't affected the performance or fuel consumption over the past couple of tanks since I noticed the noise so I will keep driving while researching and trying a few low cost things like different fuels or additive.  The only thing is I have a long holiday drive (6 hrs+) coming up in July and don't want to be stranded on the side of the road if I can help it.