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PATS error code 16 - 56 Reg Mk2 Focus


LTIronWolf
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6 hours ago, deluxor said:

i have to check c113 in the morning.

If you get 60 ohms, try wiggling the wires around near the connectors C112 & C113. If the resistance varies, there is still a bad joint, it could be a connector, or even wires broken inside the insulation.

If the resistance is stable at 60 ohms, try connecting to OBD. Ideally with Forscan, or another good system that can deal with unusual codes. Record, then clear any codes. Then see what happens, if any codes keep coming back, or if it starts ok.

If it will not Connect using Forscan, and you have a stable, reliable 60ohms, then it gets harder. Most likely is some sort of ECU related problem, as all Forscan needs is a powered up ECU and a CAN bus connection to it. You could even try with the IC unplugged, it should still connect to the ECU. Then double check all ECU fuses, and the battery volts. If the ECU really is fully powered (it has several power wires), and properly connected to a known good ELM327, but will not Connect, then that would point to a faulty ECU. But that is the last option to consider!

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Can i take ecu, gem, coil and keys from other car? Should be the same engine or just tdci? Any programming needed in that case?

Best regards, LUka

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59 minutes ago, deluxor said:

Can i take ecu, gem, coil and keys from other car?

To avoid re-programming the immobiliser (PATS), you would need the ECU and IC from a donor car. They are paired. There should be no need to change the GEM (aka passenger fusebox or BCM). Also no need to change the PATS sensing coil. The ECU would have to be from the same engine, and same or very similar date. It is probable that injector calibration codes would have to be entered, and possibly throttle or EGR calibration re-done, all via a diagnostic system. The IC odometer reading will also be wrong. Forscan can adjust them upwards, but not down. So it is not as easy as the sellers would have you believe.

ECUs are very closely matched to their individual engine, and adapt to its exact characteristics.

If the problem was in the wiring, which is what it seems at the moment, then changing ECU will not fix it, of course!

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funny thing is the car was not in use for 3 months. before it ran just fine, than this problem occured. could this be somehow connected?

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1 hour ago, deluxor said:

funny thing is the car was not in use for 3 months. before it ran just fine, than this problem occured. could this be somehow connected?

Bad connections can get worse more rapidly with lack of use. No vibration, and condensation can build up and remain due to less ventilation.

I assume you have checked the battery. Low voltages can cause all sorts of odd problems.

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Yes we did. do you maybe have ecu wiring diagram to check where i should have 12v to see if ecu power supply is good?

 

 

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tried with new bat same issue. i hear a buzzing noise from ecu cause we opened it. is this normal?

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6 hours ago, deluxor said:

do you maybe have ecu wiring diagram to check where i should have 12v

It may not be easy to get to the ECU connectors, they are usually held in by a headless security bolt that has to be drilled or ground out!

There are 3 12v supplies to the ECU:

battery direct from the 3A fuse F30 (EJB), via C90 pin 13 to ECU C417 pin G4

Main 12v from relay R6 via F36 (EJB), via C90 pin 41 to ECU C419 pins K1, K2 and J1.

Ignition supply from F138 (PJB), via C90 pin 37 to ECU C418 pin C3.

There is a line from the ECU to energise relay R6, which must be pulled to ground to turn on the main 12v (above). This is on ECU C418 pin c3.

Note: EJB is Engine bay fusebox, PJB is Passenger fusebox. C90 is the big connector in the EJB.

There is pinout of C90 in this thread, above. Also there is a link to the full schematic (it is 130+ pages, and very detailed).

Also there are links to obtain an ELM327 and download Forscan. Link here back to C90 pinout:

 

Pinouts for C417, C418 & C419 below.

I am not sure why the ECU would buzz, it is mostly solid state. There may be some little pcb mounting relays on it though.

C419-2-0.PNG

C418-2-0.PNG

C417-2-0.PNG

Edited by Tdci-Peter
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Thank you so much. You have been really helpfull. I actualy made progress yesterday, when repeating contiunity test and now it pointed to IC fail (120 ohm reading on EJB) on obd. Got another cluster and car now cranks with PATS 15 error. I have also obtained a key from the donor car. Is this only a matter of programming keys or more? I still cant connect with my diag tool which have worked before on this car, the bluetooth i have is likely not compatible with forscan and windows. Probably the right way is buying elm 327 to usb and proceed, but this problem not beening able to connect like before with the same tool in making me nervous. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, deluxor said:

repeating contiunity test and now it pointed to IC fail (120 ohm reading on EJB) on obd. Got another cluster and car now cranks with PATS 15 error.

120 ohms reading can be an IC error, or wiring to ECU, or the ECU itself. To test, remove C90 (in the engine bay fuse box), and re-measure the resistance. If it stays 120, then the IC is ok, and the fault is somewhere between the DLC (OBD connector) and the ECU. If resistance jumps up to a much higher value, then the fault is in the IC, or the wiring between the DLC and the IC.

PATS code 15 is incorrect key, and because if you swap the IC but not the ECU, they are no longer matched, I suspect this error will occur with any key, old or new.

The £16 or so for the ELM327 is likely to be a good investment anyway for any Ford owner, and it can be used (with other software) on many other cars too, the ELM is a universal automotive bus interface. It is just possible that another OBD interface may be more sensitive to needing the 60ohm value of a properly terminated bus. I found from experience that my ELM and Forscan would work if one termination resistor was missing (so read 120 ohms), though in my case it was the IC end that was broken and the ECU end was ok.

Termination resistors are used at each end of a digital electronic bus to prevent echoes. The digital signals can bounce up and down the bus, interfering with later data and causing data errors if it is not properly terminated at both ends. The resistor absorbs the signal when it gets to the end of the line, so it does not bounce back. However CAN is relatively slow (960 times slower than USB2 for example!), so in many cases the bus will work to some extent with a missing termination.

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tried to programm keys after IC replacement, both keys are recognized, car still wont start.

 

codes

u1900 b1213 u2510 9213 e510 d900 pats key flags 5

 

is it possible to swap ecu from 1.8 tdci same year?

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11 hours ago, deluxor said:

is it possible to swap ecu from 1.8 tdci same year?

No, it is a very different engine.

I think key recognised means that it does contain a working PATS capsule, but if it will not start, and with it reporting less than two keys programmed, neither are accepted as valid programmed keys for the car. That stacks up for a mismatched ECU & IC.

I am not sure if it is now connecting to Forscan, or if all the codes were read from the IC via the secret menu. 9213 is the IC version of P1900, e510 is U2510, etc. Before trying to change the ECU, is it certain that all other causes of a fail to connect have been ruled out? The ECU will need to be from the same engine type, and similar year.

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I am spinning i circle. Now continuity always shows 120ohms no matter what i disconnect. No voltage on pins 6 and 14 also. Power supply to ecu is good on all 3 wires. Same situation with both ICs i have. Car cranked only once when we connected the new IC and after that no more. When connecting with DIAG sw i can see 5 modules, ACM GEM IC RCM and FACM.

ACM no DTCs

FACM U1900

GEM no DTCs

IC U1900 and C1750

RCM no DTC

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11 hours ago, deluxor said:

Now continuity always shows 120ohms no matter what i disconnect. No voltage on pins 6 and 14 also. Power supply to ecu is good on all 3 wires. Same situation with both ICs i have. Car cranked only once when we connected the new IC and after that no more. When connecting with DIAG sw i can see 5 modules, ACM GEM IC RCM and FACM.

I don't know what DIAG sw is, but it has really narrowed down the problem for you, pointing almost directly at the cause. It must be reading both the MS-CAN and HS-CAN buses, as RCM, ACM and GEM are on the MS-CAN bus (from IC to GEM).

FACM is on the HS-CAN bus, but it is on the IC side of C113. The order of modules and connectors on the HS-CAN bus is:

IC, DLC, C112, FACM, C113, ABS, EHPAS, C90, (TCM if Auto gearbox), ECU.

So the HS-CAN bus is clearly broken between FACM and ABS, since the diagnostic unit connected at the DLC can not locate ABS, EHPAS or ECU. That would stack up with the 120ohms. If you unplug the IC at its main plug on the pcb, the resistance reading should rise to a high value.

C113, the higher of the 3 connectors by the passenger door is an obvious possibility. If not there, it will be in the wiring between FACM (under the rear seat), and the ABS. Testing from pins 17 & 18 on both sides of C113 will narrow it down further to one side or the other of C113.

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hi, i have tried to get to c113 but impossible to reach since i have a LHD car. is there any other way than taking the dash out? maybe to put new wires directly from facm to abs to bypass c113?

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1 hour ago, deluxor said:

i have tried to get to c113 but impossible to reach since i have a LHD car. is there any other way than taking the dash out? maybe to put new wires directly from facm to abs to bypass c113?

On an LHD car, I assume the passenger fuse box is on the right. C113 should also be on the right. But maybe it is further forward into the fascia area than on a RHD car.

It would be easy enough to get to the FACM, and cut the HS-CAN bus wires there (but don't mix it up with the MS-CAN, which has the same colour codes!). However the ABS is a bit difficult to reach, and the engine bay looms are better protected and fixed. If you could locate the bus near the EHPAS, under the right hand headlamp, and identify the pair coming from the ABS, it would be possible to re-route the signals there. It would result in a rather long spur to the ABS, so is not ideal, But from most evidence, CAN is not as sensitive to spur length as most faster buses.

Someone else had a similar problem and decided to re-wire almost all of the CAN bus, though it seems to have only partially worked.

 

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thank you. will check this tomorrow and report back. i think positive 🙂 have a nice start of the week

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Hi,

big thanks and quick update, the problem was with c113, now i can see all the modules. Managed to code 2 keys to my old IC with low milage, no PATS errors on cluster now. Car cranks but no start (it seems it wont feed fuel to filter and to hp pump)

In PCM i have 1 fault which comes back when deleting 

P0238-f1 Turbocharger/Super-charger boost sensor #A Circuit High

In IC i still have 1 fault which comes back when deleting

U1900-60 CAN Communication Bus Error

Any ideas?

 

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2 hours ago, deluxor said:

Car cranks but no start (it seems it wont feed fuel to filter and to hp pump)

In PCM i have 1 fault which comes back when deleting 

P0238-f1 Turbocharger/Super-charger boost sensor #A Circuit High

In IC i still have 1 fault which comes back when deleting

U1900-60 CAN Communication Bus Error

For Cranking with no start and no errors, the most likely cause is air in the fuel supply to the pump. There is no lift pump in the tank, the main pump has to draw fuel all the way up to the filter and to its inlet, but it will not work on air. It needs some sort of priming system to force fuel quite hard into the main pump. A priming bulb used before the filter is the simplest way. It is very important to avoid introducing any dirt (not even the tiniest particles) into the system after the filter. Some people have used a tow start to get enough rpm to self prime, but if the car has been idle for 3 months, the pump may be dry, and forcing it to run dry will damage it. So I do not recommend this, nor the use of Easy Start or similar.

The high pressure system from pump to injectors is self priming once fuel reaches the pump inlet, and should not be disturbed. Loosening off injector unions on a common rail diesel is very bad practice.

I would ignore the U1900 if it occurs without other CAN bus related errors. It can be a result of the diagnostic process.

I doubt if the boost sensor (MAP) error will prevent starting. It sounds like a bad connection between the MAP sensor and the ECU. Or possibly a faulty MAP sensor. Remove, clean & replace the sensor plug as a first step.

 

 

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Hi, trought car diagnostic sw i have option tol prime fuel system. Is this recomended?

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6 hours ago, deluxor said:

Hi, trought car diagnostic sw i have option tol prime fuel system. Is this recomended?

Today i bought a primiming bulb and primed hose to the filter, changed the filter and put fuel to the top, also primed fuel almost to the pump. Car starts but only runs on fuel from the hose after the filter to the pump which lasts for 2 or 3 seconds, like it wont pull fuel from the filter or before. 

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14 hours ago, deluxor said:

Car starts but only runs on fuel from the hose after the filter to the pump which lasts for 2 or 3 seconds, like it wont pull fuel from the filter or before. 

At least it shows the car will start!

All the information I have seen, including parts lists, just says the unit in the tank is a sender unit, ie a level gauge with no pump. So it is very difficult to see what a diagnostic system can do to prime the system. The car has no capability to do it, it needs external equipment like a priming bulb or pump. It is possible that some non-UK cars may have a tank pump, but I have not heard of it. The fuel pump fuse F111 in the PJB is usually not fitted on a deisel.

Does the priming bulb pull fuel from the tank, or are you using fuel from a can or syringe to fill the filter and pipes. That would check for blockages in the fuel lines or tank pick-up. Diesel left in a tank for months will have some water in it, if only from condensation, and living organisms can thrive in there, and block pipes.

Most priming bulbs are very poor quality, mine was useless until I modified it by removing mold flash from the valves and adding a good non-return valve. You need to be able to pull fuel from the tank, and ram it with some force into the main pump. That way you can get all the air out. There may be a little air bubble trapped at the top of the filter, and when this reaches the main pump, the engine stalls.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just a quick update, we managed to solve the issue. Fuel system was cloged, injectors were cleaned, tank also. car is running smooth again. 

Managed to somehow damage my original cluster with original milage on, bought 2nd hand cluster with high milage. I know that milage cant be reduced, is it possible to replace just a chip from my original IC? 

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On 9/4/2019 at 4:09 PM, deluxor said:

Just a quick update, we managed to solve the issue. Fuel system was cloged, injectors were cleaned, tank also. car is running smooth again. 

Managed to somehow damage my original cluster with original milage on, bought 2nd hand cluster with high milage. I know that milage cant be reduced, is it possible to replace just a chip from my original IC? 

if anyone is interested. it can be done and it is working like a charm.

20190906_094326.jpg

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