Where’s my EGR?

[RyanM]

Hello all,

I have a 2012 Mondy Titanium X Sport 2.2 TDCI (Duratorq) and have been having some acceleration and cruising problems for some time. It has been diagnosed as my EGR intermittently sticking.

I am looking at deleting it with a blanking plate and re-mapped.

But, all the blanking plates and kits I’ve seen are for a front-fitted EGR, I’m led to believe mine is at th back - is this the case? Can anyone advise or share a photo as to where exactly it is?

Also, any recommendations on where to get a decent plate or kit from?

Any help appreciated

Ryan

[Frembrit]

It is at the back somewhere. I've not done anything with mine as I dont have any problems.

Have a read here https://talkford.com/community/topic/239322-2011-22-tdci-egr-valve-removal-and-cleaning/?hl=%2Begr+%2Bvalve#entry3049905

and here https://talkford.com/community/topic/325801-22-titanium-x-engine-malfunction/?hl= egr valve

and you should be able to fine more information with a google search.

[RyanM]

Thanks Frembrit - appreciate your response 

[Kawakev]

Hi Ryan

Just wondered if you got your problem fixed. I have the same issue on diagnosis check and thought about blanking the egr. Did this work for you.

[thanuttiscotsman]

I do not advise anyone in the uk to fit a blanking plate as of may earlier this year it's an MOT fail now. Any kind of tampering or modification will fail the MOT test now. Also egr's save you fuel. They are easy enough to periodically remove and clean out with petrol and a brush. A soak overnight usually fixes even the worst ones. 

Also eml light on is a fail now too and blanking it "without" deleting it will bring eml on. 

Rossco

[FatHead1979]

On 9/1/2018 at 12:40 PM, thanuttiscotsman said:

Also eml light on is a fail now too and blanking it "without" deleting it will bring eml on. 

Generally yes but there are exceptions to the rule, the Euro 4 1.8 TDCi will usually quite happily run with the EGR blanked off and not throw an EML.

[thanuttiscotsman]

This may be true but bear in mind any euro 4 diesels fitted with a dpf will fail the MOT if there is any visible smoke.

Egr's reduce combustion chamber temperatures and emmisions so you would need to be sure there was no visible smoke had you blanked it off. 

You would probably want to avoid strict testing stations as well because another new rule is that any visible sign of tampering with the system "big shiny blanking plate" is also a fail. 

So blankers be prepared for what they are looking for 👍🏼. 

[FatHead1979]

On 9/3/2018 at 3:09 PM, thanuttiscotsman said:

This may be true but bear in mind any euro 4 diesels fitted with a dpf will fail the MOT if there is any visible smoke.

Egr's reduce combustion chamber temperatures and emmisions so you would need to be sure there was no visible smoke had you blanked it off. 

You would probably want to avoid strict testing stations as well because another new rule is that any visible sign of tampering with the system "big shiny blanking plate" is also a fail. 

So blankers be prepared for what they are looking for 👍🏼. 

Thankfully the 1.8 TDCi wasn't ever fitted with a DPF despite being Euro 4 but I agree that some of the "tricks" some of us have got away with in the past may come back to bite us on the backside come MOT time (going forward).

[Dee_82]

The opacity test on my Euro4+DPF car got better afer removing the DPF and blanking the EGR... go figure!

I did get rid of it though because the DPF can easily be detected as gutted these days so, time to go.

my 2.0 TDCI has its DPF intact but the EGR was mapped out a while back, no visible smoke. which makes sense since the reduced combustion temp has nothing to do with soot or smoke of any colour and only in reducing cylinder temps to stop NOx being Formed in high quantities. 

As for seeing it being modified... they could, but they would need to change the rules again

[thanuttiscotsman]

5 hours ago, Dee_82 said:

The opacity test on my Euro4+DPF car got better afer removing the DPF and blanking the EGR... go figure!

I did get rid of it though because the DPF can easily be detected as gutted these days so, time to go.

my 2.0 TDCI has its DPF intact but the EGR was mapped out a while back, no visible smoke. which makes sense since the reduced combustion temp has nothing to do with soot or smoke of any colour and only in reducing cylinder temps to stop NOx being Formed in high quantities. 

As for seeing it being modified... they could, but they would need to change the rules again

Lol well that goes against the laws of physics and car design so I'd guess either your dpf was clogged with crap causing all the smoke or your egr system was not functioning as it should, even a clogged up egr valve or pipe can cause issues.

Factually speaking a healthy modern Diesel engine once at full operating temp should not make a lot of smoke, dpf's are only there to catch the worst of the soot which in a modern diesel only happens during start up/warm up and under heavy acceleration they tend to let out a little puff.

Most diesels that pour out smoke either have a dpf/egr issue or a dodgy injector.

yeah exactly matey egr is all about nox gas reduction and only because it's more harmful than most other gases. 

Most people with healthy cars won't have issues

[Dee_82]

the only way an EGR causes smoke is when it messes with the air fuel ratio so it was never an issue after I had it mapped out of the Focus. before hand it might have had an effect on opacity tests but its fairly common, quite a few folk on here said they had similar results after a DPF / EGR removal, Its not against physics at all, its about a cleaner running engine produces less visible crap and EGR, DPF removal (and usually the associated remap that goes with it) cleaned up my focus no end. in fact it was as clean as it was on its first ever test it had

my 2.0 is as clean as a whistle now, it does have a DPF in place which isnt ideal but at least its a simple job to replace on the mondy. the 1.6 was a complete pain in the bum.

NOx might be a problem but on the scale of problems its probably not as bad as you might think, deliberately wrecking engines with EGRs isnt cool, especially when the least likely people to afford the repairs are the most likely to end up with the problems.

anyhow, point is, no one is going to get done for blanking an EGR just yet, the test measures opacity, not NOx and unless its really obvious its been tampered with, which would be hard to see without taking it apart or connecting up a computer, no ones going to see it as being done.

[thanuttiscotsman]

Well exactly egr's cause problems when they get gummed up. When they are clean enough they work perfectly fine and so do the cars. 

Egr's and dpf's are there to reduce emmisions and that is what they actually do. Removing them will not make your car less polluting it will only stop the car from gumming itself up with crap. 

A missing dpf will be obvious to any knowledgable MOT tester and is now a fail as I've already said. Lots of people have pals who'll just give them an MOT no problem so won't be an issue for them. 

The basic fact is egr's and dpf's do reduce your emissions but also yes do gum up your car. Cleaning these out is part of the maintenance of the vehicle and tbh isn't hard, an afternoon of light work will see it done and it's not like it's a monthly task.

People who look after their cars will not have issues with these systems or their emmisions test, people who don't look after them will see problems with them when the crap builds up.

Im a mechanic by trade running my own company and offer advise to people for free online to help them get by with their motors. I wouldn't ever offer people bad advise because it just won't help them. 

There will be people reading this who will happily bypass this and remove that and other people who would prefer to have their car as it's always been. I for one shall leave it to them to decide what they do as it's their life and their car I'm only highlighting the reality of it for those who are going to be making this decision so they are better informed. 

[Dee_82]

TO be fair, there is little you can do to prevent the EGR getting gummed up, its the accumulation of soot and oil vapour from the PCV that builds up and cooks hard. DPFs can be seriously screwed over if not driven correctly, but beyond driving it correctly, there isnt a maintenance procedure to help them.

What would be interesting is to see what effect / cost to the environment an EGR has over one that doesn't. I.E Yes you get reduced NOx but you also use more fuel, would reducing fuel also decrease NOx (over the life of the car) and what about other gasses and pollutants? then you have the added cost of repairs, how much pollution / gas is generated from making new parts that wouldn't otherwise need to be made and decommissioning of them (presumably being melted). 

undoubtedly it would be better to have the devices, but by how much, over the life of a car if it only makes say, 10% of an improvement, is it worth the increase in financial cost of say adding an extra 10% to the cost of the second hand car (from fuel and repairs)

 

[RyanM]

On 9/16/2018 at 11:55 AM, thanuttiscotsman said:

Well exactly egr's cause problems when they get gummed up. When they are clean enough they work perfectly fine and so do the cars. 

Egr's and dpf's are there to reduce emmisions and that is what they actually do. Removing them will not make your car less polluting it will only stop the car from gumming itself up with crap. 

A missing dpf will be obvious to any knowledgable MOT tester and is now a fail as I've already said. Lots of people have pals who'll just give them an MOT no problem so won't be an issue for them. 

The basic fact is egr's and dpf's do reduce your emissions but also yes do gum up your car. Cleaning these out is part of the maintenance of the vehicle and tbh isn't hard, an afternoon of light work will see it done and it's not like it's a monthly task.

People who look after their cars will not have issues with these systems or their emmisions test, people who don't look after them will see problems with them when the crap builds up.

Im a mechanic by trade running my own company and offer advise to people for free online to help them get by with their motors. I wouldn't ever offer people bad advise because it just won't help them. 

There will be people reading this who will happily bypass this and remove that and other people who would prefer to have their car as it's always been. I for one shall leave it to them to decide what they do as it's their life and their car I'm only highlighting the reality of it for those who are going to be making this decision so they are better informed. 

I’m happy to sort it myself and clean the EGR. But, I don’t know where the EGR is located, and isn’t there a risk of some kind of done by the untrained eye? (I can’t remember what it is or where I read it). I’d say I’m good with cars and done more complex things under the bonnet - but I know where it’s located and funnily enough nobody else seems to know the answer to that either...I just know it’s at the rear of the engine somewhere....

[thanuttiscotsman]

Hey, well the best advice I can offer you there given I don't know the layout of the engine myself would be that the egr valve is the gateway between the exhaust manifold and the intake manifold. 

A pipe usually joins the two manifolds and is usually about 15mm in diameter and shiny. At one end of the pipe will be the egr itself. 

If you go on to the euro parts website put your reg in and look up egr's you'll be able to see what it looks like. Then following the above info you should be able to find it. 

Cheers