Bleeding car

[oldrocker72]

Ok iv put a new light bulb in the car and went to the garage and asked them to confirm what brake pipes need changing and they said its the metal pipes and not the flexi pipes, they said if they do the work it's £75 per side and £150 to check and fix the problem with the ABS fault.

[oldrocker72]

Well the car went to the garage today for the them to check the codes on the ABS and find the fault they phoned me and explained that the code popped up straight away stating the ABS pump has failed and needs replacing along with the front passenger wheel sensor,  the guy who owns the garage said that if i want to fix it i'm looking at £500/600 to fix the pump and sensor,

He did mention that getting a secondhand pump would be difficult because if the serial numbers don't match with the old pump no matter what we do it won't program in  with the ECU unit, Anyway if we don't want to Shell out the money he will give me £100 cash for scrape for the car but the wife was not impressed when i told her all this,

So now we are scouring the marketplace on Facebook,  Gumtree, and eBay for a new car,

On the plus side the wife hasn't spoke to me for hours 🤣🤣. 

[JW1982]

This garage is talking crap.

If the ABS pump is faulty (which I doubt) it it very easy to install a secondhand one. There is no need to reprogram the ABS pump (the focus MK1/MK1.5 is not that advanced). If the ABS pump really needs to be replaced just find yourself a secondhand ABS pump from a similar car of about the same age and it will be plug and play.

A 2002/2003 focus MK1.5 is known for its classic instrument cluster problems. Corrosion on the circuit board causes a shortcircuit between the traces on the circuit board. common symptons when this happens are an illuminated ABS light and/or an illuminated parking brake light. In most cases this problem can easily be solved by cleaning the instrument cluster circuit board using alcohol and a soft brush. 

Secondhand focus MK1/MK1.5 parts are pretty inexpensive these days. A lot of these cars are scrapped because of age so parts are easily available for low prices. 

[Tdci-Peter]

18 hours ago, oldrocker72 said:

He did mention that getting a secondhand pump would be difficult because if the serial numbers don't match with the old pump no matter what we do it won't program in  with the ECU unit,

I was a bit suspicious when the garage said it would be £150 to check & fix the ABS, without apparently knowing what, if anything, was wrong with it.

And then, like a miracle, two codes (unspecified) pop up which prove that both the pump and one sensor are faulty. Codes are a diagnostic aid, and should rarely be taken at face value without additional diagnostics, especially if there are several pointing at different faults. One fault can easily fool the software into seeing another problem that is not real.

Then the stuff about serial numbers matching raised alarm bells. But as I know so little specifically about the Mk1 Focus, it is great that Wilco has popped up to confirm that the garage is making most of it up.

But before getting too carried away, there is significant work to be done, checking the IC, and maybe sorting out an ABS fault if one exists. Also corroded brake pipes may be an indicator of a lot more corrosion around the rear of the car. My Mk2 Focus has been very prone to underbody rust at the back. I have spent ages cleaning and rustproofing the rear suspension etc. So a good look under the back, brushing off road dirt, might be a good idea before committing to more expenditure.

In my opinion, it would be great to see the life span of a 1.8TDCI Mk1 Focus extended, It can be a ******* good car. But not if the work and cost is crippling!

[oldrocker72]

12 hours ago, JW1982 said:

A 2002/2003 focus MK1.5 is known for its classic instrument cluster problems

It's funny you say that Wilco as just recently on my instrument cluster the needle of both the fuel and temp gauge sit in the middle of each gauge when i turn the engine off also ever since iv had the car the mileage would flash up on the digi clock every few seconds is that bit correct, but the bit that puzzles me the most is the ABS/BTCs lights will come on and could be on for weeks but they can just as easy be off for weeks as well, or they would flash on n off for a few seconds then either stay on or go off completely,

 

7 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

But before getting too carried away, there is significant work to be done, checking the IC, and maybe sorting out an ABS fault if one exists. Also corroded brake pipes may be an indicator of a lot more corrosion around the rear of the car. My Mk2 Focus has been very prone to underbody rust at the back. I have spent ages cleaning and rustproofing the rear suspension etc. So a good look under the back, brushing off road dirt, might be a good idea before committing to more expenditure.

 

Tdci-Peter the underneath of my car is not rusty at all as iv already looked i have taken a load of pictures of the underneath will upload them and you can tell me if its been painted with some kind of rust proof paint as i think it has by looking at it myself, 

Anyway from what i can gather from both of you is it may not even be a fault in the ABS pump and the sensor on the wheel could be the problem or even the instrument cluster either way it needs more investigation before letting ASM autos come and collect the car,

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, oldrocker72 said:

the underneath of my car is not rusty at all as iv already looked

Make sure you have checked all the complicated suspension bits: springs, anti-roll bar, control arms, hub carriers, sub-frames, brake backplates, etc. It is those bits that have been worst affected by rust on my car, the floor pan and main bodyshell have mostly been ok.

Ford Instrument Clusters have often been a bit prone to problems, the 2006 Focus is really notorious, as I found out rather suddenly and inconveniently, a couple of years ago. Since the garage you have been using seems to be somewhere between mis-guided and telling deliberate lies, it is probably worth a bit more work, or a second opinion, before accepting their not very generous sounding offer.

Having you own diagnostic system would be very useful. You may be able to verify if a garage is being honest. As I said a few posts back, Forscan is only about £17 on a Windows laptop, a little more for Forscan Apps  on IoS or Android smartphones / pads. Lots of people on this site can help with how to interpret the codes, and use other diagnostic facilities. Error codes due to faulty clusters would be very different to ones from a failed ABS pump or wheel sensor. And I know people have used it on a Mk1 Focus. All you need is an adapter like:

https://tunnelrat-electronics.fwscart.com/

I know I have just said that codes are not 100% reliable, they are only aids, but without them working on modern cars can be like searching a haystack for a pin, in complete darkness, with thick gloves on!

 

[JW1982]

10 hours ago, oldrocker72 said:

It's funny you say that Wilco as just recently on my instrument cluster the needle of both the fuel and temp gauge sit in the middle of each gauge when i turn the engine off also ever since iv had the car the mileage would flash up on the digi clock every few seconds is that bit correct, but the bit that puzzles me the most is the ABS/BTCs lights will come on and could be on for weeks but they can just as easy be off for weeks as well, or they would flash on n off for a few seconds then either stay on or go off completely.

 

These are all classic symptoms of the well known focus MK1.5 instrument cluster problem. This is a common problem on 2002 --> 2004 instrument clusters. Back in the days a lot of these instrument clusters were replaced under warranty. 

The warning lights going On / Off is usually caused by humidity. Humidity affects the conductivity of the corrosion between the traces on the circuit board. 

The burning Traction Control warning light is a bit strange. Most focus MK1.5 cars do not even have Traction Control. Back in the days this was a pretty expensive option and because of this a focus MK1.5 with Traction Control is very rare. A burning Traction Control warning light on a car without traction control also points to an instrument cluster problem.

 

Personally I would start with checking the circuit board of the instrument cluster and giving it a good clean. 

[oldrocker72]

10 hours ago, JW1982 said:

Personally I would start with checking the circuit board of the instrument cluster and giving it a good clean.

How difficult is this to do Wilco because i don't want to take something apart and think how the hell do i put this back together, also how would we know if the car has traction control fitted or just the light fitted but it seems strange to me that they would fit a warning light when it isn't needed, anyway the wife thinks we should fit a new wheel sensor and see what happens but her mum is pushing for us to sell it along with my old 98 shogun to ASM autos as the have offered £414 pounds for both and we can use that to put towards a new car,

18 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

Make sure you have checked all the complicated suspension bits: springs, anti-roll bar, control arms, hub carriers, sub-frames, brake backplates, etc. It is those bits that have been worst affected by rust on my car, the floor pan and main bodyshell have mostly been ok

Will check out the rear suspension on the car and if it's really bad i think that will force our hands and we will scrap the car and sell it to ASM autos as the have offered £165 on its own without the shogun as well, anyway will check tomorrow as the weather is supposed to be slightly better tomorrow. 

[oldrocker72]

Ok Tdci-Peter i have had a look underneath the car and i don't think it's that bad, but will post a couple of pictures and see what you think,

Do you think this is worth saving or not considering everything else that's wrong with the car.

 

[Tdci-Peter]

It looks remarkably similar to my Mk2, both in design and where the rust is starting. Most of the thicker parts look ok, the thinner sections like the little Vee shaped angle brace and the section high up above the wheel might be getting a bit weak and near to perforation. The top of the visible spring looks rusty, and some on the anti-roll bar. These highly stressed parts are more sensitive to corrosion, and it will make them crack and break. But they look treatable at the moment. Without getting fingers and a trusty old screwdriver in there it is hard to be sure though.

If you want to keep it going for more than a year or two, it is in need of some Jenolite, phosphoric acid or other rust convertor, then some soft, sticky anti-corrosion coating. I use Waxoyl, but longer lasting coatings are available for quite a bit more cost.

 

3 hours ago, oldrocker72 said:

Do you think this is worth saving or not considering everything else that's wrong with the car.

I will have to sit on the fence here! Yes, I think the things wrong with it are worth fixing, but only if most it is DIY. At garage rates it would probably be too expensive for the remaining life. To be honest, keeping a 16+ year old car going will always be a labour of love. When I had my MoT done last month, I saw a Wolsey, very similar to the car my father bought in about 1965, in the garage. It looked like it was getting some fairly hefty welding done! That did look like a labour of love to keep it going all these years. Whether a Mk1 Focus will become a similar classic, I am not so sure. The complex electronics may be its downfall, like all modern cars!

 

 

 

 

 

[oldrocker72]

3 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

I think the things wrong with it are worth fixing, but only if most it is DIY

The problem is i have a limited budget and i don't want it to become a money pit which i think it will as the time goes by, so we will probably be getting rid of it to ASM autos as we have already spoken to them about it.