Ford recall - software update clutch slip 18S07

[Botus]

I still don't believe this is new software "just to detect clutch slip..."   the vehicle already came with both audible and visible clutch slip detection …. it makes a noise and the needle goes round the rev counter, the more you do it the worse it gets...  and then it has odour detection as well !!

I think this is purely a get the emissions fixed before a big fine from the EU

[TomsFocus]

2 hours ago, Botus said:

I still don't believe this is new software "just to detect clutch slip..."   the vehicle already came with both audible and visible clutch slip detection …. it makes a noise and the needle goes round the rev counter, the more you do it the worse it gets...  and then it has odour detection as well !!

I think this is purely a get the emissions fixed before a big fine from the EU

We have a mechanical understanding though...a lot of drivers don't.  I often cringe watching elderly people set off uphill at 5000rpm and 10% clutch bite... 😮

 

[Tomson]

Booked mine in today - I have my suspicions that this may have something to do with emissions, but only Ford will know about this.

Have many had it done? has anyone noticed a drop in performance since having it done?

[TitXlover]

Had mine done with a service a couple of weeks ago. Can't say I have noticed any difference.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[pcaouolte]

Mine was done about 6 weeks ago. No change in performance.

[Phil 3747]

Originally had mine booked in for yesterday, as it was a day off, but I called in last week to see how long they would need it for, only to be told that "it depends on the internet speed on the day"and that if it was running slow, then it could take all day and I would just have to leave it with them !!!!

When I told them I wasn't prepared to wait all day, the only option they gave me was to cancel it...so I did, and won't be going back any time soon !!

How come they have to download it from the internet...surely they could just have it stored on a laptop or memory stick or something ????

I HATE MAIN DEALERS !!!

[JW1982]

The Ford FRDS diagnostic system Thar Ford dealers use is a web based system. This diagnostic system needs an internet connection.

However my experience is that even with a low bandwidth internet connection the PCM update should not take longer than 15 minutes.

[Martyb1973]

I’ve noticed no difference so it’s just a case of getting you to the dealership so they can try and sell you a car while you wait. It’s common practise across the industry. 

On another note I don’t think my car has traction control, isn’t this standard? 

[Mr Toad]

Hi,

I recently received my 18S07 Clutch Recall. I'm a bit miffed because the car went in for 2 days in July 2018 for the 17S09 Coolant Recall.

My next service was in August 2018 where clutch18S07 recall wasn't done. I've read the previous thread and it seems that some have been lucky in having 18S07 done in September 2018 on their Ford service.

The other reason why I'm miffed is because I'm using Bluefin which boosts the car from 182ps to over 200ps with a K&N airbox. So this will be 3 times in 6 months where I am going back to Bluefin to restore the software.

[iantt]

Don't bother getting the recall done then . Not essential if your mechanically minded ,know when a clutch slips and you do something about it before it destroys itself. 

[Mr Toad]

Hi, I have driven focus 1.0 zetec's. They are very nice cars, but not a model that pins you back in your seat under acceleration.

I can understand why this recall is not a problem for you, but it is for me - because of the power difference and the subsequent potential to burn out clutches.

I have been driving for many years, had many cars, and I really do know about clutch slip. 

I think that this recall is about Ford detecting that a certain batch of clutch plates had a manufacturing fault and that is why for me, I need to have this recall.

     

[iantt]

1 hour ago, Mr Toad said:

Hi, I have driven focus 1.0 zetec's. They are very nice cars, but not a model that pins you back in your seat under acceleration.

I can understand why this recall is not a problem for you, but it is for me - because of the power difference and the subsequent potential to burn out clutches.

I have been driving for many years, had many cars, and I really do know about clutch slip. 

I think that this recall is about Ford detecting that a certain batch of clutch plates had a manufacturing fault and that is why for me, I need to have this recall.

     

If you know about clutch slip then your ok not to bother with the recall. It's not a faulty batch of clutches if that's your worry. 

[Botus]

I'm confused, is the update really about fixing multiple serious faults whilst the car is in and by using stupid words about clutch slip detection, it makes it sounds all cuddly and caring like ford love you?

on the 1.6 turbo is there 3 major faults and if so which causes the car to set fire to itself and take you back to a body in white (grey) in just 10 minutes?  my understanding:

1) self destructing turbo wastegate fault, masked with a software bodge

2) coolant lost leading to overheating (and the engine fire ?)

3) emission fix to get it legal

4) totally mental enhancement, if one sat there with clutch slip for 30 minutes it might break warning light

FYI my sister was never informed about a coolant fix (even though it lost water recently - allegedly a mate fitted a new expansion bottle and its all good now???), she's just been in for 3.5 hrs to have this clutch slip recall and claims it doesn't drive any differently afterwards.  any info around issues appreciated

[Mr Toad]

According to iantt it's not due to substandard clutch plates - but then doesn't state why Ford have issued this 18S07 Safety Recall.

Ford state in both the Coolant Recall 17S09 and 18S09 letters that there is a fire risk. Whilst I could ignore these recalls, my insurance company would not pay out when they discover negligence on my part. 

[iantt]

4 hours ago, Mr Toad said:

According to iantt it's not due to substandard clutch plates - but then doesn't state why Ford have issued this 18S07 Safety Recall.

Ford state in both the Coolant Recall 17S09 and 18S09 letters that there is a fire risk. Whilst I could ignore these recalls, my insurance company would not pay out when they discover negligence on my part. 

18s07 is deemed a safety recall due to smoke / fire risk in extreme cases where owner ignores the clutch slipping due to normal wear and tear and clutch completely wears out , having potential to break up with consequence of parts of clutch and transmission hitting bonnet/surounding area

All this is clearly explained in the letter customers receive.

[isetta]

"18s07 is deemed a safety recall due to smoke / fire risk in extreme cases where owner ignores the clutch slipping due to normal wear and tear and clutch completely wears out , having potential to break up with consequence of parts of clutch and transmission hitting bonnet/surrounding area" 

is the risk of that happening any greater than on any car that does not have clutch slip detection?

I had not heard of clutch slip detectors until a few days ago. I can tell myself when the clutch slips. It's one of those things you should always test for when buying an old second hand car - and the first second hand car I bought on my own I was caught out buying one which had a slipping clutch, because I did not know much.  And my brother did the same. Luckily we had the ability to replace the clutches ourselves by following Haynes manual (only replacing the plate with the linings on due to lack of funds). This was over 30 yrs ago.

Are clutch slip detectors common place now?

[RobNick]

I have a Ford Mondeo 1.6 ecoboost 2012 Start/Stop. Just before Xmas I received a recall notice and my car is booked in for the software upgrade on 4th Jan.

However, what concerns me is that my clutch had to be replaced in August 2018 due to symptoms very similar to those described in the recall notice. There was an acrid burning smell and the gear change arrow flashed wildly from red to green. The AA tracked me back to my local ford dealer who eventually determined both the clutch and flywheel needed replacing and charged me £1150 for the pleasure of doing the work.....the car had done only 47000 miles and my driving habits had never resulted in any clutch problems in my previous 50 years of driving!

Clearly Ford knew of this problem at the time and the dealer must also have been aware of this issue happening elsewhere....but they happily took my money managing to keep a straight face in the process! I have written to Ford Customer service asking for my money back.....I live in hope!

[Mr Toad]

Hi RobNick, As we have similar engines but in different cars (mine being Ford Focus), please could you tell me if you've owned your car from new?  I don't doubt that you are a good driver and treat the clutch with respect. So I'm still questioning if these might be substandard clutch plates.

I've also read isetta's post and I also recall changing clutch plates decades ago. They used to wear down to the rivets and if left too long it then scored the flywheel. But in my experience ( and those of my mates who were doing the same), the clutch plate lining never broke away. As stated above, I'm still questioning that the clutch plates may be substandard.

[isetta]

the only car I ever had where the linings came adrift from the rivets was an Isetta bubble car. But it was probably down to me starting to use it after it had stood for years and years so the flywheel and pressure plate were rusty which made it hard to slip the clutch and it probably just ripped the linings off. 

I'm not sure we will get to the bottom of what happened if we can't inspect the actual parts from the car.  Even if Ford handed over some parts you couldn't know if they were the actual parts unless you watched the dismantling.

[iantt]

I've changed plenty of clutch plates over the years where the friction material has broken up leaving a plate with rivets. Normally driven by the elderly until the car won't go any more. It's nothing new. The transmissions removed and you get showered in bits of clutch 

[FatHead1979]

8 hours ago, iantt said:

I've changed plenty of clutch plates over the years where the friction material has broken up leaving a plate with rivets. Normally driven by the elderly until the car won't go any more. It's nothing new. The transmissions removed and you get showered in bits of clutch 

Ah, tight arsed coffin dodgers.  Either never change gear and do 30 MPH in an urban area in 2nd gear (4000 RPM) amd/or massively slip the clutch when pulling off so it sounds like a lazy launch start (I love the smell of clutch in the morning) 

[Ford1]

The issue detailed in the letter is claimed to be slipping the clutch may overheat the clutch mechanism causing the PRESSURE plate to fracture (not the friction disc).

The DVSA website has this the other way round, stating a fractured pressure plate causes the slipping.  This is logical as the incorrect pressure may be applied depending where the fracture is - the main plate or one of the springs.  I have emailed them to ask for clarification.  http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/expand.asp?uniqueID=4E44140329ABAC698025825600386067&freeText=Blank&tx=0.869682

It is of interest the way this is treated differently in the USA.  ( I do not believe the model of vehicle matters as this is a drivetrain issue.  The Focus in the USA does not have a 1.6L option therefor only lists for 1.0L.  The USA Fusion appears to be our Mondeo)  In the USA a 1.6L engine and B6 transmission receives a replacement clutch -  https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2018/RCMN-18V169-6244.pdf  )

According to DVSA the 1.6 drivetrain is being treated differently here in the UK -

1.6l with Engine Stop Start - Software Update

1.6l without Engine Stop Start - Alternative Clutch

My local dealer could not clarify anything asked about this recall, confusing things even more when taken alongside the DVSA information.

When I contacted Ford UK Customer services to ask about the engine derate, warning light and drive cycle strategy detailed in the DVSA bulletin, they referred me back to the dealer.

ZF Sachs (The OE Supplier of the clutch) referred me back to the dealer.

I would like to know how Ford can guarantee without physical inspection of the pressure plate, that it is not already fractured, just not to the point of catastrophic failure at this time.

It would be usual for a clutch that has been slipped to the point of catastrophic failure to be deemed driver abuse and for the customer to foot the bill.  Why are Ford so concerned about 2 drivetrains in particular?

The update takes 20mins according to that NHTSA file.  A modest cost to Ford of a few million @ £90ph labour rate - to restrict a problem with a known substandard part turning into a catastrophic safety problem that could in extreme cases result in death (as could any mechanical problem left unattended, worn brakes, suspension etc).  Much cheaper than replacing the substandard part which I recon would run into 10's of millions ££ for the 120K+ vehicles worldwide this affects. ( I have read onlinewith a pinch of salt that the clutch has been modified in 2016 and the pressure plate material changed when production was moved from the UK to Europe - I cannot find verification of that on an official site like DVSA)

Cheaper for them to install software to say your clutch is worn, take it to the dealers and they'll change it for you for £500+ as its normal wear and tear (or is that premature wear and tear???), or as they did with the powershift issue, use the opportunity to upgrade you into a newer car,  either way - customer pays.

 

 

 

[WES180]

Mine is in for the software update tomorrow. Total inconvenience having to clean the car today! 😄

[Swiftfocus69]

3 hours ago, WES180 said:

Mine is in for the software update tomorrow. Total inconvenience having to clean the car today! 😄

Mate had his done yesterday, Bristol street motors . They even washed and hovered it inside for him, and did a short video of them checking his tyre depth .

Should have left it .

[WES180]

1 hour ago, Swiftfocus69 said:

Mate had his done yesterday, Bristol street motors . They even washed and hovered it inside for him, and did a short video of them checking his tyre depth .

Should have left it .

I always think that nice clean cars get treated better than filthy ones so I like to give it a good clean before it goes in for a service. They probably don't get treated any differently but then there's also the embarrassment factor of handing over my keys knowing it's rotten if I don't do it!