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Ford recall - software update clutch slip 18S07


granville_focus
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9 hours ago, Middleman said:

So. It's none of the parts they have changed (and I paid for) and there is probably some part still left in my car that can easily do the same thing again. All the more reason to make Ford change the whole assembly including flywheel and input shaft at their expense. I have not yet mentioned that when my wife picked it up after the clutch plate and cover had been changed and drove the few miles home from the dealer she noticed a small judder whenever she changed gear. I took it out myself and drove it down a faster road. The clutch judders were quite obvious and got worse as the speed increased. Then they just stopped and the gear changes have since been just as smooth as they were in the 15 months before it apparently stripped in 24 hours the whole of the clutch plate surfaces that should have lasted some 7 years. Where do you go from there?

take it easy with the clutch and let it bed in, its a bit like brakes the parts need to settle in, (if the flywheel, centre plate and pressure plate were new then should be little to bed in) if one part is old will take longer.  one main driver of clutch issues is if you want to put 150 bhp / 170 ft  lbs through a manual clutch and yet have a light fluffy pedal somethings compromised

you've got the spring off a 1 ltr Micra and the power output of an 3.1 RS  = clutch slip 

 

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Just on this. Is it always best to release clutch in neutral with say auto start off rather than clutch FULLY depressed if stopped say 30 secs to 1 min at lights.

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2 hours ago, Botus said:

 one main driver of clutch issues is if you want to put 150 bhp / 170 ft  lbs through a manual clutch and yet have a light fluffy pedal somethings compromised

 

Completely agree with this, biggest issue with the 1.0EB clutch imo.  It's just designed to be a cheap, light clutch for an elderly lady to operate on her weekly trip to the church rather than a realistic abusable daily that we've all become used to on cars of the last 10/20 years.

I'm terrible for clutch abuse, slipping in 2nd in traffic, holding it on the clutch on hills etc, but in 10 years I've never worn one far enough to lose all drive even on 100k+.  My long term cars have all been fairly large capacity, torquey diesels though.  The clutches are designed to take the torque, plus an expectation of towing etc but yeah they do feel a bit heavy...  The 1.0EB clutch is designed on a budget (as is the rest of the engine), and to be very light (both in rotational weight and pedal feel) and to 'just' cope with the power, bearing in mind the majority of 1.0EB drivers won't ever hit 5k let alone overboost…  The clutch is one of the main reasons I've been completely put off a 1.0EB Focus knowing I'd have to be constantly aware of clutch use not to ruin it!

It's also worth noting that other small, cheap cars have exactly the same issues with clutches wearing out at low mileages, the city bugs (Aygo/C1/107) are notorious for clutch failures because again they're just designed to be cheap and light, not designed for longevity and a realistic modern traffic driving style.

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On 1/8/2019 at 1:06 PM, TomsFocus said:

Dual mass flywheels can easily be damaged by labouring an engine, that's what causes the wear resulting in a rattling/shuddering DMF.

The software update does reduce torque partly to help with the clutch & DMF and partly to reduce the emissions, the majority of people won't drive hard enough to notice this though which is why you'll find a lot of people saying there's no difference on their car.

I have just found this contribution on page 4 of this thread and along with what you and Botus have written on page 9, I am beginning to think that we might have been making some wrong assumptions. I am not sure if a reply to a post on page 4 will be squeezed onto that page or will go to the end of the thread, so I will not say any more in this post but will continue with a new post on page 9 (or it might even be page 10 by now). TBC.

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On 7/20/2019 at 12:56 PM, TomsFocus said:

Completely agree with this, biggest issue with the 1.0EB clutch imo.  It's just designed to be a cheap, light clutch for an elderly lady to operate on her weekly trip to the church rather than a realistic abusable daily that we've all become used to on cars of the last 10/20 years.

I'm terrible for clutch abuse, slipping in 2nd in traffic, holding it on the clutch on hills etc, but in 10 years I've never worn one far enough to lose all drive even on 100k+.  My long term cars have all been fairly large capacity, torquey diesels though.  The clutches are designed to take the torque, plus an expectation of towing etc but yeah they do feel a bit heavy...  The 1.0EB clutch is designed on a budget (as is the rest of the engine), and to be very light (both in rotational weight and pedal feel) and to 'just' cope with the power, bearing in mind the majority of 1.0EB drivers won't ever hit 5k let alone overboost…  The clutch is one of the main reasons I've been completely put off a 1.0EB Focus knowing I'd have to be constantly aware of clutch use not to ruin it!

It's also worth noting that other small, cheap cars have exactly the same issues with clutches wearing out at low mileages, the city bugs (Aygo/C1/107) are notorious for clutch failures because again they're just designed to be cheap and light, not designed for longevity and a realistic modern traffic driving style.

OK it is page 10 now, so I will continue here with my post above. It is your comment on dual mass flywheels that caught my eye. Coupled with the comment by Botus " you've got the spring off a 1 ltr Micra and the power output of an 3.1 RS  = clutch slip"  I realised that my wife trying to continue her journey up the motorway on that "black Thursday" did not have the power output of a 3.1 RS any longer but, thanks to this 18s07 software that Ford has put on our car, now had the power output of a 1 ltr micra also most of the time to go with the dual mass flywheel of the 3.1 RS (= disaster?).

So I asked her again exactly what she had seen, heard and felt in more detail. On the first 2 occasions she had seen the orange message warning her that the clutch needed a service , about half a mile from home on the Wednesday evening and a similar half a mile from home at the start of the journey early on Thursday, she was able to stop very shortly afterwards but did not see, hear or smell anything unusual. She then stopped the engine to think about what to do but found on both occasions that when she restarted it the warning message had gone. So she decided to continue the journey. These are both on 30/40 mph speed limit roads.  She did not notice any power loss until she got onto the faster roads to the M40 motorway but still did not think it was much to cause concern. On the motorway though the power loss was more obvious. She found that it was struggling to maintain a speed much above 60 mph especially when going up hills. After about 5 miles the orange message came on again but now there was nowhere to stop legally before Oxford services around 15 miles further on. By now she knew that pressing OK to the warning message reduced it to an icon that looks like an eye but once again after restarting the engine the warning had cleared completely.

She had not much to add about the rest of the day to what I have told you previously although she did say that getting a bit fed up with everyone else on the motorway overtaking her she had coaxed the speed up to around 70mph for parts of the journey. A bit noisier again but nothing else to tell. Nothing really to indicate what was happening to the clutch plates. We did agree that when the RAC and AA men told her about not being told by Ford what the messages meant it was probably just the messages generated by 18s07 that they were talking about.

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'A bit noisier' probably means it was revving it's knackers off trying to maintain 70mph with a slipping clutch which would explain the huge amounts of dust in your clutch cover lol!

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…. if you get clutch slip, lower gears, higher revs and low throttle input is the way to go (and accept on a hill you'll need to allow the car to drop speed or it'll just rev = more wear = even more slip)

5 or 6th on a hill using the turbo's added torque to get it up the hill will increase the likelihood of it slipping. 

however there was a unusually weak design / fault / driving style earlier in its life and the clutch wore out...   on that journey it seems it was a heavily worn centre plate that gave up, rather than your wife did anything that caused it to die on that journey

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14 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

'A bit noisier' probably means it was revving it's knackers off trying to maintain 70mph with a slipping clutch which would explain the huge amounts of dust in your clutch cover lol!

Yes perhaps so but let us apply some logic to this. It could also be a bit noisier because the engine is working harder than it would normally have to in order to maintain a speed of 70 mph, and the reason that it has to work harder is because the software that was installed by the update which is the subject of this thread, is preventing the full engine power from being applied to the transmission. How does the software do that? Was it reducing the amount of fuel that would normally be supplied with the accelerator pedal pressed down to whatever position my wife was holding it at? Or perhaps it was reducing it by preventing a turbo that would normally be applied at that speed from being actuated? We do not know. I find it hard to believe though that the software was deliberately slipping the clutch to lose that power.

Ford tell us that the reduction is applied when the software detects that the clutch is slipping and It seemed to my wife that the engine power was being reduced throughout the journey along the motorway. We presume that the warning message was displayed when the slipping clutch is first detected but we also know that stopping the car and engine turns the message off. It does not appear again when we restart the engine and continue the journey but remains off for perhaps half an hour before it comes on again. That probably means that the clutch was not slipping for that half hour, but it seems to my wife that the power is still being reduced. What starts the clutch slipping again? Probably the same thing that started it slipping in the first place but Botus tells us that he cannot see anything in the pictures of the parts that were replaced that might do that.

So where do I go from here? I am trying to prevent Ford from slipping out from their obligation to supply me with a complete new clutch system under warranty. That means that they cannot pretend that it was "normal wear and tear" that caused the clutch to be wrecked. Can I do that?

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9 hours ago, Middleman said:

Yes perhaps so but let us apply some logic to this. It could also be a bit noisier because the engine is working harder than it would normally have to in order to maintain a speed of 70 mph, and the reason that it has to work harder is because the software that was installed by the update which is the subject of this thread, is preventing the full engine power from being applied to the transmission. How does the software do that? Was it reducing the amount of fuel that would normally be supplied with the accelerator pedal pressed down to whatever position my wife was holding it at? Or perhaps it was reducing it by preventing a turbo that would normally be applied at that speed from being actuated? We do not know. I find it hard to believe though that the software was deliberately slipping the clutch to lose that power.

No, you've misunderstood this I'm afraid.  The clutch is a fully mechanical system, there is no electronic input to it, the ECU cannot cause clutch slip.  The reason the engine was noisier is because you were losing torque between the engine and the gearbox.  When the clutch is fully engaged (let's not start that one again! :laugh: ) there is 100% of the torque being transmitted from the engine to the gearbox, but with a slipping clutch you may only be getting 70% of that torque (for example), with the rest of the energy being lost as heat.  So it feels like the engine has less power, when in fact the power is still there at the flywheel, it just can't reach the road.  This means you have to apply more torque to maintain the same speed.  So whereas normally you might use 2000rpm to maintain 70mph, the losses between the engine and gearbox mean you're now having to use 3000rpm to maintain the same speed.  This is why the engine is noisier with a slipping clutch, it's simply because you're having to rev it higher.  Applying more torque also causes the clutch to slip more though and this is what will kill a clutch and cause all that dust you saw, you can use mechanical sympathy to extend the life of a slipping clutch by using less torque as Botus described in an earlier post, but the majority of drivers would not know how to do this.

When clutch slip is detected, the PCM restricts torque by reducing the amount of fuel injected and altering the timing, as well as reducing the amount of boost from the turbo.  It has no control over the clutch itself.  It can only restrict torque so far, it's not going to stop a slipping clutch, it just reduces the amount of slip and ultimately the risk of fire which is why the clutch slip software was a free safety recall instead of being a more optional paid-for update.

Clutches don't all 'look' bad and you can't always tell that anything is wrong just by looking at them.  It could be as simple as a weak diaphragm spring, but how can you prove that?  I can't tell you what first started the clutch slip I'm afraid, and you won't be able to prove that it wasn't caused by driver error, I don't see you being able to get to anything from Ford, other than possibly a goodwill gesture due to the low age & mileage.

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18 hours ago, Middleman said:

because the software that was installed by the update which is the subject of this thread, is preventing the full engine power from being applied to the transmission. How does the software do that? Was it reducing the amount of fuel that would normally be supplied with the accelerator pedal pressed down to whatever position my wife was holding it at? Or perhaps it was reducing it by preventing a turbo that would normally be applied at that speed from being actuated? We do not know. I find it hard to believe though that the software was deliberately slipping the clutch to lose that power.

. That means that they cannot pretend that it was "normal wear and tear" that caused the clutch to be wrecked. Can I do that?

Toms post above has good info,

only point not addressed is how can software change engine performance...

on a NA engine (normally aspirated - as in the engine cylinders fill with air due to atmospheric pressure - this is because a vacuum is created as the pistons go down the cylinder bores.  Vacuum is detested by nature, so its removed by atmospheric pressure pushing air into the engine.  This means the amount of air to burn, is pretty much limited by overall design of the drive train, its swept capacity, given rpm and cam timing, but mainly by atmospheric pressure.  Unless 1) you're in Johannesburg where 10,000 ft of altitude steals around 10% of your go 2) you're at sea level and its a cold high pressure day where it will feel a bit perkier. 

The next bit to go with that air is the fuel.  On a Petrol engine they need a specific air fuel ratio or they just run like a dog (or not at all).  With a few exceptions 1) cold start, 2) hard acceleration 3) motorway cruising etc. this ratio shouldn't move much.  Too much or too little petrol and it will just underperform.  So all that's really left for software to play with would be variable valve timing (if fitted and electronically actuated ) and ignition spark advance.  But as its all very much tied up in how a family car needs to work in multiple conditions, altitudes, temperatures, vehicle loads etc. whilst remaining easy to drive and flexible you end up with the right boring software or a hideously performing disaster.

However your car has a turbo and so the game changes. 

On turbo charged engine, rather than atmospheric pressure filling it with air and the engine management getting the air fuel ratio about right,  Your's effectively has a powerful fan forcing additional air into the engine.  This has multiple effects.  1) effectively increases the engine capacity, works around fairly limited valve timing limitations and raises the compression ratio.  All of which can lead to dramatic changes in power output.  Rather than 14.7psi limply pushing in a bit of air, your turbo can force (in your state of tune) 40% more air in, by running around 20psi.  If you match things up well this effectively turns your engine in to a 2.6 litre engine when required. 

In the old days when the turbo wasn't doing much, and a lot to do with engine management systems that didn't exist or were very basic, it would actually perform worse than a std petrol engine.  Luckily these days variable vain geometry turbos can drive up efficiency even at low revs. Intercoolers keep the compressed air cool. Variable valve timing can try to keep the air in the engine.  Knock sensors optimise the ignition.  And with better materials, manufacturing, combustion chamber and cooling system design we get to run far high compression ratios.  So much of the low rev deficit a turbo used to give has been removed.

With so much of the engine management now monitored by electronics, software can influence the amount of power being generated hugely.  By playing with all the systems whilst managing issues in software following a sophisticated 3D map, we can influence the power output pretty much how we want.  As the engine won't overheat if we push it very hard for a few seconds, we can add a feature to make overtaking safer. This is called "overboost", by allowing it in software for say 20 seconds, we can allow the turbo to work extra hard pushing in air at maybe 25psi giving the performance a 3.2 litre engine so we can get by slow traffic easily.  We could keep winding up the turbo till something breaks (after all as exhaust gasses drive it, the faster it spins the faster the turbo pushes in more air in a virtuous circle till the car lights up the tyres or the turbo runs out of puff).  To stop that, we either wind back the variable vain geometry or blow off the excess with a wastegate.  Thus if we tell the wastegate to open later in software we get more go.

All in all, your 1 litre micra clutch (so the wife's ankle is happy parking) starts to get upset when we push 3.2 litres worth of go through it regularly... and after 4 years ford decided to tweak the shape of the torque curve (reduce and smooth) and drop the amount of overboost.  So it now feels a bit less lively but the clutch should survive longer.

 

also I didn't realise this failed just after the update, part of the update was abuse the clutch, if it lets go fit a new one free, if not give it back a bit slower.  The unfortunate thing is asking a ford tech to abuse a car intentionally isn't likely to end well....

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2 hours ago, Botus said:

Toms post above has good info,

only point not addressed is how can software change engine performance.....

However your car has a turbo and so the game changes...... 

With so much of the engine management now monitored by electronics, software can influence the amount of power being generated hugely.  By playing with all the systems whilst managing issues in software following a sophisticated 3D map, we can influence the power output pretty much how we want.  As the engine won't overheat if we push it very hard for a few seconds, we can add a feature to make overtaking safer. This is called "overboost", by allowing it in software for say 20 seconds, we can allow the turbo to work extra hard pushing in air at maybe 25psi giving the performance a 3.2 litre engine so we can get by slow traffic easily.  We could keep winding up the turbo till something breaks (after all as exhaust gasses drive it, the faster it spins the faster the turbo pushes in more air in a virtuous circle till the car lights up the tyres or the turbo runs out of puff).  To stop that, we either wind back the variable vain geometry or blow off the excess with a wastegate.  Thus if we tell the wastegate to open later in software we get more go.

All in all, your 1 litre micra clutch (so the wife's ankle is happy parking) starts to get upset when we push 3.2 litres worth of go through it regularly... and after 4 years ford decided to tweak the shape of the torque curve (reduce and smooth) and drop the amount of overboost.  So it now feels a bit less lively but the clutch should survive longer....

also I didn't realise this failed just after the update, part of the update was abuse the clutch, if it lets go fit a new one free, if not give it back a bit slower.  The unfortunate thing is asking a ford tech to abuse a car intentionally isn't likely to end well....

Thanks for your reply Botus. I have been trying to feed in gradually all the information about the update and what I have managed to learn from my wife about the 24 hour period when the clutch condition went from not slipping at all to worn out. From what she has told me I am pretty sure that the software update must prevent the turbo from operating when it detects the clutch slipping. Normally when you start going up a motorway incline and the speed drops below 70mph you just press the accelerator pedal and you both feel and hear the turbo switch on. As she says the speed shoots up so fast that you have a problem holding it down to 70 mph. On her motorway journey that morning pressing the accelerator pedal did nothing at all. Not until the incline finished was she able to slowly coax it back up to 70 mph.

I am also pretty sure that TomsFocus has got it wrong when he says the clutch is a fully mechanical system.On the invoice that I had to pay to get the car back on the road it says "fitted new clutch and slave cylinder" so at the very least it is a mechanical and hydraulic system. I know that what is usually called a servo does not need any electrics but normally it will include at least analogue electronics to set up a map of pedal movement versus hydraulic pressure. Had we ordered the performance pack option that has to include full digital electronics so that the clutch can be controlled by software for features such as full hands-free parking.

I have explained that the Warranty I got in March 2018 no longer allows Ford to reject claims for full replacement of the clutch assembly just because it contains a "friction" component whose purpose is to absorb normal wear and tear. They now have to show that what caused the failure of the clutch was just normal wear and tear and I do not think they have a leg to stand on in this case to prove that.

 

 

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car manufacturers are big, powerful, lazy, incompetent and crooked.  if they want to help they can, if they want to be a nuisance....

 

on the points you raise above

a clutch is mechanical and on some (yours) the actuator is hydraulic, but so what.  It does nothing more than a bowden cable would (operate an arm over a given distance - when the clutch pedal is moved), and on a simple manual box there's is no electrical connection other than a reverse light switch.

and a turbo isn't on or off, as soon as the vehicle starts its turning and it stops turning around 30 seconds after you turn off the engine... how fast it spins and how hard it works is related to the performance level the driver is trying to achieve and the conditions its operated in. 

Clutch slip detection (I'm sure the exact mods are listed in one post), will be taking basic info from ABS sensors / traction control unit and comparing this data to engine revs and road speed, where a given threshold is exceeded, it will via the engine management, reduce power (using ignition timing or boost pressure control) until the slip is reduced and throw an error message to the dash so the driver is aware.

If the clutch is totally fried the level of performance drop will be significant.  Its trying to help by reducing the slip so it doesn't get worse.  The main aim was to avoid the clutch self destructing and the debris causing an under bonnet fire (and its this fire that is why ford went to the effort, cost and embarrassment of a recall)

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18 hours ago, Middleman said:

I am also pretty sure that TomsFocus has got it wrong when he says the clutch is a fully mechanical system.On the invoice that I had to pay to get the car back on the road it says "fitted new clutch and slave cylinder" so at the very least it is a mechanical and hydraulic system. I know that what is usually called a servo does not need any electrics but normally it will include at least analogue electronics to set up a map of pedal movement versus hydraulic pressure. Had we ordered the performance pack option that has to include full digital electronics so that the clutch can be controlled by software for features such as full hands-free parking.

There's no servo assistance needed on the clutch, it takes such a small amount of force to operate compared to brakes.

I also don't think the Park Assist operates the clutch does it?  You still have to control the speed and gears yourself, it just operates the steering as far as I know.  Maybe @iantt will prove me wrong there though, I've not had the chance to experience park assist yet lol.

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8 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

I also don't think the Park Assist operates the clutch does it?  

All the stuff I've seen states that the driver has to control the accelerator, brakes and gears as you suggest. So to me that means on a manual you have to control the clutch also. (I've not experienced one either and am in no hurry to do so, tbh!😀

 

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21 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

All the stuff I've seen states that the driver has to control the accelerator, brakes and gears as you suggest. So to me that means on a manual you have to control the clutch also. (I've not experienced one either and am in no hurry to do so, tbh!😀

 

I think you are talking about the basic ParkAssist which we have on our Focus3 Vtec. We probably got it in the optional "Convenience pack" (that comes with a built in toilet too - just joking 🤣).

I was talking about the full version that you get in Titaniums or by purchasing the "Performance pack" with a Vtec. That does operate the clutch and brake as well as the accelerator while you are parking.  I don't know for sure if it also stops and puts you into reverse as well. The basic ParkAssist looks for parking spaces long enough to park in but I think you have to stop the car and put it into reverse when it tells you to. It then just steers you into the slot and tells you when to stop if you have not already done so. That rear facing camera that I also bought gives you a lot more confidence that you are not going to hit the car behind.

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Our  2012 Focus 1.6 182bhp recently had the clutch software recall, at the same time the head gasket was changed.

It isn't as responsive as previously and feels slower. At around 2,400 rpm performance goes flat. Could this be caused by the clutch update.

There is an occasional smell of fuel on startup when cold which makes me think that it could be another issue.

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On 7/24/2019 at 5:07 PM, Botus said:

car manufacturers are big, powerful, lazy, incompetent and crooked.  if they want to help they can, if they want to be a nuisance....

 

on the points you raise above

a clutch is mechanical and on some (yours) the actuator is hydraulic, but so what.  It does nothing more than a bowden cable would (operate an arm over a given distance - when the clutch pedal is moved), and on a simple manual box there's is no electrical connection other than a reverse light switch.

and a turbo isn't on or off, as soon as the vehicle starts its turning and it stops turning around 30 seconds after you turn off the engine... how fast it spins and how hard it works is related to the performance level the driver is trying to achieve and the conditions its operated in. 

Clutch slip detection (I'm sure the exact mods are listed in one post), will be taking basic info from ABS sensors / traction control unit and comparing this data to engine revs and road speed, where a given threshold is exceeded, it will via the engine management, reduce power (using ignition timing or boost pressure control) until the slip is reduced and throw an error message to the dash so the driver is aware.

If the clutch is totally fried the level of performance drop will be significant.  Its trying to help by reducing the slip so it doesn't get worse.  The main aim was to avoid the clutch self destructing and the debris causing an under bonnet fire (and its this fire that is why ford went to the effort, cost and embarrassment of a recall)

Sorry not to have replied before, Botus. it was due to both being away and failure of my computer. I am hoping that I can now resume trying to get Ford customer services to honour their Warranty. It is important that I do not make mistakes even if they do not affect the arguments as it weakens the case and might allow them to wriggle out of their legal obligations. So thank you for what you wrote. I know now that the turbo is running all the time and it is superboost that you normally feel when you try to accelerate hard. That is what is missing while the safety recall software is detecting a clutch slip and why my wife could not easily get the car to go faster than 60 mph.

After the clutch plate was replaced and we got the car back again the clutch was juddering as I said in a previous post. It was after I did accelerate hard and felt the superboost, that the plate appeared to have bedded down and the juddering stopped. This might possibly prove relevant to why the old clutch plate did not bed down and stop slipping during the motorway trip when it was destroying itself. 

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On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 11:59 PM, CJ75 said:

Our  2012 Focus 1.6 182bhp recently had the clutch software recall, at the same time the head gasket was changed.

It isn't as responsive as previously and feels slower. At around 2,400 rpm performance goes flat. Could this be caused by the clutch update.

There is an occasional smell of fuel on startup when cold which makes me think that it could be another issue.

I had the 18s07 clutch recall in February 2019 - I posted my views after this time. I now estimate the drop in power to be about 20-25 bhp after this software change.

I know it to be that much because I was running (and still am) Bluefin & K&N 57S-4000 Airbox which was giving me an extra 20-25bhp. The power now is the same as when I bought the car new and before the Bluefin/K&N mods - that is 182bhp. I believe that your car has suffered due to Ford's 18s07 software change.

I don't have a fuel smell so as you say , this could be another problem.

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its a bit like wheel spin, once started easy to keep slipping,

when new it coped, but after a bit of wear it slips, so to protect against the impact of a light clutch / weak pressure plate they dropped the torque the engine produces during the update

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In other words a kludge. I've noticed the lack of superboost since the recall.

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that's an awful name.

the industry uses " overboost " and it a far better name....  its to help get you out of trouble (for example when overtaking) as you stand on it and leave your foot there it just sets a timer allowing slightly more boost for a pre determined period (e.g. 0.1 bar more than std for 20 seconds), if you carrying on trying, to stop things getting too hot a while later it drops back to the standard boost its supposed to be running

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On 8/9/2019 at 7:24 PM, Botus said:

that's an awful name.

the industry uses " overboost " and it a far better name....  its to help get you out of trouble (for example when overtaking) as you stand on it and leave your foot there it just sets a timer allowing slightly more boost for a pre determined period (e.g. 0.1 bar more than std for 20 seconds), if you carrying on trying, to stop things getting too hot a while later it drops back to the standard boost its supposed to be running

Sorry about "superboost". I think it was me who got that wrong first. Must remember to use "overboost" in future. Names are important otherwise you give the wrong message to the person who is reading it and they give you the wrong message in reply. I am still looking for the right word to describe a clutch when the plates are being pressed together and not slipping, after the "engaged/disengaged" argument a bit earlier in this thread.

Finding the correct word that both parties understand has been the major problem in first the communication with my wife in understanding what exactly happened on the motorway journey while the clutch plate was being wrecked and making the claim through Ford Customer Services for a full replacement of the faulty clutch on the basis of her evidence.

I have now discovered a few more interesting things from my wife

1. After the new software added at the time of the safety recall has detected a slipping clutch and reduced the engine torque, there is no sign of any assistance at all from the turbo. All her accounts of how fast she could go are consistent with what might be expected from a non-aspirated 1 litre engine. This then would appear to be how the torque is reduced.

2. On the motorway she tried to keep her speed up to 70mph. This is to avoid the bullying by other motorway drivers who object to being uinable to drive at that speed by a car travelling slower than they are.. This takes place even on the inside lane, which she was using, when these drivers get trapped behind her by middle lane traffic without any openings. After they get into the miiddle lane and have passed her they immediately swing back into the inside lane and try to block her to show their anger that she was not travelling fast enough. I know that it happens because I have seen it when I have been travelling with her.

3. She could usually just about get to 70mph but this meant she was “thrashing the engine” which is known to cause clutch damage when a dual mass flywheel is fitted to the car, as I believe it is on our 6 gear manual transmission Focus . So the software that is supposed to be protecting the clutch is doing just the opposite under these conditions.

4. On an uphill section of the motorway she could not maintain 70mph. I asked her which gear she was in and she said 6th. I asked her why ever did she not change down to a lower gear, and she said that when she did change down the instument display panel kept advising her to change back up to 6th. Clearly that bit of the software does not know that the turbo is not providing any boost.

5.On the 4 or 5 occasions that the warning messages were shown advising her to find a Ford authorised dealer to check the clutch condition, she remembers that 2 or 3 were on uphill stretches. It might have been that they all were. I assume that before the message was shown the clutch was not slipping and now it was, so it is no surprise that it happens on uphill gradients.

6. It does seem to me that once a slipping clutch is detected and the torque is reduced this continues even if the clutch stops slipping. The only way to reset back to full torque is to stop the engine.

As for communicating with Ford customer services you are quite right. They believe they have the protection of the parent company so can ignore little matters like what the warranty now says and do not believe they would ever have to provide any evidence to justify rejecting our claim. So they did not bother to look at the clutch parts that my local dealers had set out on a bench for them to look at or the parts still fitted to the car and gearbox that were left on the raised platform for 12 days so that they could be examined. They did not even ask to see the data that the Safety recall software had stored. No wonder that they never discover what goes wrong with Ford clutches.

 

Edited by Middleman
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sounds to me like the clutch was "completely gone" directly after its condition was supposed to have been checked at the garage during the recall work....

there is no way that it could have checked out as OK, only for total failure to occur 50 miles down the road.... it must have been heavily worn and "testing" must have discovered it was worn out. 

Now I wonder if it was like my sister.  She argued with them when booking in the car that's there's now way the work will take 9 hours they quoted for the recall.... and went back nagging to have her car back and took it away after 3 hours.... (software only)  to me this sounds like ignorant owners not even giving ford the opportunity to fit a free clutch...  I'm not waiting that long. "Ok Madan the clutch is trashed and you won't leave it with us long enough to fit a new one, see you very soon... don't forget to bring 600 quid with you next week"

re point 4) the change light is exactly like the old days where a vacuum gauge will "teach you to use a light throttle and low revs" this silly idea was std on many BM cars for 20 plus years, for normal progress you can't maintain no vacuum all the time but thats how the shift light is trying to get you to drive.... and on an NA car you'll be as slow as hell, inconveniencing every one else on the road.  But theses days with a clever turbo you can keep the revs down whilst actually working its socks off the engine (making nearly 3 ltrs worth of go) and its why fuel consumption is terrible "even though I was driving gently"  ...AKA flogging it to death without realising

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Sorry for the delay in replying Botus.

I think you misunderstand the timeline. The recall was in late April and that was when the local Ford dealer did the test for a slipping clutch and put in the software mods. The day of my wife's motorway journey that I was talking about was 2 months later near the end of June, with another 1250 miles on the clock. In between there had been no signs or sounds of the clutch slipping (except when changing gear or pulling away of course). Nor had there been any warning messages from the software mod saying that the clutch was slipping. It was in the evening during a short local journey on the day before the motorway journey that she saw the first one of those. I still have no idea what caused the clutch to start slipping but it was on an uphill stretch of road (probably about 1 in 20) and my wife might have changed gear. She cannot remember.

In those 2 months between, one of the thing we did, in late May, was to take a short break in the Lake district. We shared the driving up there and back so I had plenty of time to spot any clutch problems if there had been any. While in the Lake district we went up and down many steep hills including some 1 in 4's and the Focus just sailed up them all. That was probably a better test than any dealer could have done at the recall, but it still does not help to find out why, a month later, the clutch first started slipping that evening on a much gentler slope.

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14 minutes ago, Middleman said:

No idea why this quote box has appeared, either.

 

Edited by Middleman
No idea why?
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