If In Doubt, Ask A Copper

[Turvey]

Having a wee bit of a disagreement at work over a legal matter. Our local GMB rep has posted a memo saying basically that the use of 2 way radios whilst driving is illegal. 

 

As we use these everyday it could have quite major implications. I've been quoting this piece of information from quite a reliable source 🙂

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q659.htm

 

Apparently a GMB member has recently received a £200 fine and 6 points (which brought him to 12 thereby losing his licence AND job!) for using a 2 way. I don't know whether it was a handheld radio or a fixed radio with a 'fist mike' which I suppose would make a difference. 

 

Has the law recently changed? I realise the whole 'driving without due care and attention' thing could be brought in but in this case it seems it's the actual use of the radio which inflicted the wrath of the law. Or is it, as I think, just a union scaremongering? 

 

 

[Gaskell71]

From driving for supermarket online, your not meant to use any device weather it be a phone, handheld or sat nav etc whilst driving or with engine running.  Pull over and switch of before using any equipment.

[Stoney871]

Using any handheld device whilst driving is an offence whether phone, radio or satnav.
Even using handsfree can be considered an offence if it can be proven that doing so adversely affects your concentration whilst driving.
Police are permitted to use personal radios for operational reasons but are still encouraged to stop if possible.

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[Jonro2009]

Do the police not have PTT buttons on the gearstick or small stalk from the steering column? 

[Stoney871]

Only for vehicle mounted sets.
Mine has a PTT screwed to the dash and a microphone at the top of the A pillar.
Often personal radios and vehicle mounts are on different channels though.
My personal set is mostly on a Divisional channel and vehicle set is usually on a county wide or air channel.

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[Turvey]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, what's the difference between taking a hand off the wheel and pressing a PTT and holding a mike?

 

What about this part of the regs that basically say you CAN use a 2 way? Especially the last sentence :-/ 

 

Regulations 110(1) and (2) prohibit a person from driving, or causing or permitting a person to drive, a motor vehicle on a road if the driver is using a hand-held mobile telephone or similar device. Regulation 110(3) prohibits a person from using a mobile telephone or similar device while supervising a holder of a provisional licence at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road. It is an oVence under section 42 of the Road TraYc Act 1988 to contravene these regulations. Regulation 110(4) provides a definition of devices that are considered similar to hand-held mobile telephones for the purpose of these regulations. This definition excludes two-way radios.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/pdfs/uksi_20032695_en.pdf Official Government Publication.

[Turvey]

1 hour ago, Gaskell71 said:

From driving for supermarket online, your not meant to use any device weather it be a phone, handheld or sat nav etc whilst driving or with engine running.  Pull over and switch of before using any equipment.

Totally get the whole handheld thing and driving for a supermarket will obviously mean sticking to their rules regardless of whether or not they are based on law. 

[jace1969]

This is a good read,i have read that its not illegal to smoke/eat or drink at the wheel while driving or change radio station or cd unless it distracts you from

your driving but aint all the above going to distract you in some way ( Due care and attention)

I think and  ''my opinion'' as some might not agree as if your driving your driving end of,if you want food/drink/smoke etc for that 5 or 10 mins pull over.

As for any emergency services or needed communication i cant  comment on that as there is right and wrong on both sides.

 

[Jonro2009]

I often eat while driving, and drink too. However I am fully prepared to drop food and drinks should I need to in an emergency (like if the police see me 😉). I don't think it distracts me in any way, although I can't be sure but I don't feel unsafe. Driving an auto means I don't need to change gear so I'm less likely to need to use my left hand any way. I'm sure many would disagree though.

I will admit that I have tried to read a text message while driving, in another life. And I genuinely don't think I can do it, something in my brain stops me from being able to look at my phone and my driving becomes the priority despite me consciously having made the decision to look at my phone. One of the reasons I love android auto is the complete hands free you get.

 

[Stoney871]

Unfortunately it's not what you think is safe or not.
If an Officer sees something that 'in their opinion' is likely to cause a distraction or likely to affect safe control of a vehicle then they can class it as driving without due care.

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[jace1969]

9 hours ago, Stoney871 said:

Unfortunately it's not what you think is safe or not.
If an Officer sees something that 'in their opinion' is likely to cause a distraction or likely to affect safe control of a vehicle then they can class it as driving without due care.

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A cup of coffee or a sandwich just because say your late or something to me aint right,yes we have all done it but this could mean a life.

Sorry but i do have my own strong views on stuff like this as nothing can replace life.

[Stoney871]

A cup of coffee or a sandwich just because say your late or something to me aint right,yes we have all done it but this could mean a life.
Sorry but i do have my own strong views on stuff like this as nothing can replace life.

In a confrontation the Officers opinion will unfortunately always win out over yours.
I'm sure we all do things behind the wheel that we really ought not do but to err is human.

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[jace1969]

In a confrontation the Officers opinion will unfortunately always win out over yours.
I'm sure we all do things behind the wheel that we really ought not do but to err is human.

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I had a causin in the force a nice few years ago but retired now from it not in age just you have a age limit or something.
I heard some horror stories and just makes you think.....why....

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[Stoney871]

Police have to do a minimum of 30 years in the job in order to get a full pension and compulsory retirement at 60 (unless in a post that can justify retention but then I will have to reapply every 12 months).
As I didnt join until I was 33 I therefore will lose a percentage off my pension if I can't extend.

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[jace1969]

18 minutes ago, Stoney871 said:

Police have to do a minimum of 30 years in the job in order to get a full pension and compulsory retirement at 60 (unless in a post that can justify retention but then I will have to reapply every 12 months).
As I didnt join until I was 33 I therefore will lose a percentage off my pension if I can't extend.

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He started from the bottom young and passed all the stuff needed and worked his way up high and yes he did around 40 years and i didn't see him a lot but when i did some stuff.

Did make me laugh sometimes when he popped in and car was outside and a copper walking down our path,curtains moved and talking.

I talk to him more now and his sister pops round a lot of times but at the end of the day we all go and do a job but all emergency services

put there life on the line and our police is to protect us or try and help so there in the line of fire all the time.

 

Turvey.......what job do you do then or have i missed it somewhere in the Topic.

 

[Turvey]

I work for our local council in the waste dept so our 2 ways are used to tell us skips needing picked up bins missed etc 

 

I'm thinking now that maybe the member in my original post was done for without due and attention not specifically using a radio.

[jace1969]

1 hour ago, Turvey said:

I work for our local council in the waste dept so our 2 ways are used to tell us skips needing picked up bins missed etc 
 
I'm thinking now that maybe the member in my original post was done for without due and attention not specifically using a radio.

Yes mate could be but I do see the problem and why you would need them.
Hard one ain't it but a good topic to read.

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