horrible pull away

[michaelburrows]

iv had my 2.0 tdci titanium x 62 plate for a while now.what i hate about it most is the awfull pull away in first gear. if i pull away giving the car anymore than about 1600rpm its as if my foot gas slupped off the accelerator pedal and the car drops revs straight away i have to rev to about 1200 and just pull away on that gently.  if im on a gradant pulling away that can be quite difficult as generally you need to give more revs. i took it to fords about 3mths ago and told them about it.  it was as if i was talking a foreign language. they just couldnt understand me and said never heard of that b4.  anyway they did a pcm software update at my request.  anyway it dodnt make much if any difference to the issue as i was led to believe it may do. has anyone any other suggestions. i have tbought about taki g to a remapping specialist in the hope that a remap may cure it. but havi g spoke to them they said it would also deleye the previous ford pcm software update and they were not sure if it would improve things or make it worse. .any ideas please.

[DickP]

Hi

Having just got the Mk3 with the same engine as you have, I understand what you mean.  You have to put some effort into not po-going in first gear.  It appears the car increases the engine speed to counter the load, and pedal input raises this further and then just as you're fully engaging the clutch the car drops the revs down so they are now only at the pedal position revs.  This then has the effect of dumping the clutch as it then grabs its bite point.

Pulling away without pedal input is a lot smoother but also a lot slower.

Any suggestions are also welcome other than learning to become very precise. :-)

Thanks,

[TomsFocus]

Only thing you can do is change car, most people don't seem to notice how awful the clutch mapping is on these.  I'm really hoping the 1.0EB clutches are mapped better...

I had the same issue on a 1.6TDCi, dreaded slow manoeuvres, stop start traffic and quick pull aways onto dual carriageway roundabouts etc.  Went back to VAG in the end, the clutches on both the 14 year old A3 and 5 year old Golf are perfectly smooth despite my (sometimes questionable!) clutch control.  It'll move on the clutch alone with no jumps or jerks.  I can add a little throttle as and when necessary without it racing away or nose-diving.  And I can hammer it onto the dual carriageway roundabouts without worrying about causing accidents.

When I bought the Focus the previous owner commented on how well it drove!  When I sold it, the new owner took it for a test drive and made no mention of the clutch at all...   

[Albert27]

3 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Only thing you can do is change car, most people don't seem to notice how awful the clutch mapping is on these.  I'm really hoping the 1.0EB clutches are mapped better...

I had the same issue on a 1.6TDCi, dreaded slow manoeuvres, stop start traffic and quick pull aways onto dual carriageway roundabouts etc.  Went back to VAG in the end, the clutches on both the 14 year old A3 and 5 year old Golf are perfectly smooth despite my (sometimes questionable!) clutch control.  It'll move on the clutch alone with no jumps or jerks.  I can add a little throttle as and when necessary without it racing away or nose-diving.  And I can hammer it onto the dual carriageway roundabouts without worrying about causing accidents.

When I bought the Focus the previous owner commented on how well it drove!  When I sold it, the new owner took it for a test drive and made no mention of the clutch at all...   

Are you any nearer getting a new Ford Tom?

[TomsFocus]

3 hours ago, Albert27 said:

Are you any nearer getting a new Ford Tom?

Not really no...  It's all I've been thinking about for weeks now.  I'm useless with decisions as it is but this one genuinely is difficult.  My budget isn't enough for the spec I actually want (Titanium X, or at least an appearance pack/convenience pack on a Titanium) but I just can't really justify spending £9k on a car I don't 'want' either.  I am a car guy so it's not just an A to B thing for me and I'm after something I can keep interested in and take pride in for the next 3 years at least.

What is also annoying is that the Mk6 Golf is great fun, cheaper to run than an EcoBoost as well as having more torque and less weight so it's pokier and handles better than the Focus which I really wasn't expecting after the understeer of the old Mk4s lol.  Everything is so smooth as well, not just the clutch and engine but the steering and brakes as well...the quality and refinement is a world away from Fords.  I even took it to a big German car show today, rather than having to park the Focus outside and walk in as I've done previously lol.  BUT it's not all good, the DPF fails a regen at least 2 or 3 times a week now.  It wasn't so bad when I had the A3 as well, because I could do the short journeys in that as it had no DPF, but now all the short journeys are on the Golf it's really struggling.  So I do need to change to a petrol asap...  And just keep going in circles with this lol!

I've seen a few Focus' at a Auction that could be good...but they may be bid too high by traders that know their markup, and now I've seen the auction fees for private buyers I don't think it'd be worth it anyway.  I'm also checking eBay and Autotrader every day, as well as Gumtree and Facebook.  The local Ford dealer cars are all out of my budget, the cheapest 1.0 Titanium they have is £9.5k and it's done 53000 miles and doesn't have any extras at all... 😒

So yeah...I'm still no closer...   If anyone on here has a facelift 1.0 125ps Titanium they're thinking of selling or part ex'ing for £8k ish...please message me details first...  

[michaelburrows]

oh dear. best answer is to replace my car.  well unfortunately thats a non starter at this time. dickp described the problem better than i did but thank god he understands me. i wonder if its just the2.0 engine or all the tdcis. its an awfull problem to have. really does make you hate pull aways. im at a loss really apart from live with it.  my mate has a 2.0 tdci mondeo and that dosnt do it.   

[Ryan_Tango]

8 minutes ago, michaelburrows said:

oh dear. best answer is to replace my car.  well unfortunately thats a non starter at this time. dickp described the problem better than i did but thank god he understands me. i wonder if its just the2.0 engine or all the tdcis. its an awfull problem to have. really does make you hate pull aways. im at a loss really apart from live with it.  my mate has a 2.0 tdci mondeo and that dosnt do it.   

When I had the 1.6 TDCi after I had the car remapped it was absolutely perfect, no more scary pulls at roundabouts when you need to be quick. 

[DickP]

2 hours ago, michaelburrows said:

oh dear. best answer is to replace my car.  well unfortunately thats a non starter at this time. dickp described the problem better than i did but thank god he understands me. i wonder if its just the2.0 engine or all the tdcis. its an awfull problem to have. really does make you hate pull aways. im at a loss really apart from live with it.  my mate has a 2.0 tdci mondeo and that dosnt do it.   

I found that with extra weight, such as passengers etc. it makes it behave a lot better.  It is almost as if they left the mapping as it was on the heavier Mondeo.

[michaelburrows]

emm. praps i will spend out on a remap and see how it goes. just wonderi g what ford may say tho if i take for servicing etc or if i have problem. because iv read that when ford plug in to diagnostics the pcm will come up with message thats saying its been tampered with and that they now cant wont work on it.   or am i totally wrong.

[TomsFocus]

It doesn't really work like that.  As your car is well out of warranty, the only thing it would affect is if your car gets recalled for a PCM update (like the clutch one on the later EcoBoosts), Ford would just wipe your map and put theirs on.  The mapper should be able to give you a new map for free if it's a decent company.  It won't affect servicing at all.  There are some mappers that 'block' PCM access (to stop people stealing their maps), but this is more of a VAG issue, I haven't heard of anyone having this issue with a Ford.  If you use something like Bluefin then you can remove it as an when you like anyway.

@Ryan_Tango did you have the EGR mapped out on yours or just a power map?  I saw a huge improvement on the mk2.5 1.6 TDCi pull away once the EGR was off, it's mapped to open at idle and close as you pull away but again, isn't mapped well enough (imo) which is what causes some of the issue.

 

[Ryan_Tango]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

 

@Ryan_Tango did you have the EGR mapped out on yours or just a power map?  I saw a huge improvement on the mk2.5 1.6 TDCi pull away once the EGR was off, it's mapped to open at idle and close as you pull away but again, isn't mapped well enough (imo) which is what causes some of the issue.

 

It was just a power map, as far as I know the EGR doesn't have issues on the MK3/.5 but the improvement was excellent and the extra power was a major plus point

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, Ryan_Tango said:

It was just a power map, as far as I know the EGR doesn't have issues on the MK3/.5 but the improvement was excellent and the extra power was a major plus point

The EGR doesn't seem to break on the Mk3 (so far...), but it does affect the pull away in the same way it did on the mk2, can watch it on live Forscan graphs.

[DickP]

Hi

Is that the cause of the initial slow response from the accelerator pedal?

[TomsFocus]

25 minutes ago, DickP said:

Hi

Is that the cause of the initial slow response from the accelerator pedal?

Partly yes.  It's when it sort of 'stumbles' or drops power for a split second as you move off, before picking up speed as expected.  Most noticeable when pulling onto roundabouts I found.

It's not the sole cause though, the fuel delivery mapping is a bit weird during pull away as well, I can only assume it's done to keep emmisions down but it really isn't a nice feel for the driver.  This is what a remapping company should be able to improve.  

[south_bound]

23 hours ago, Ryan_Tango said:

When I had the 1.6 TDCi after I had the car remapped it was absolutely perfect, no more scary pulls at roundabouts when you need to be quick. 

Same here on the Mk2, the revs just dropped as I pulled away or didn't increase as you would expect, especially in 2nd gear.  A remap, including EGR disable sorted that out which was an unexpected bonus.  Been fine for the past 5 years. 

[michaelburrows]

would a remap and egr delete sort the problem on my 62 plate mk3  or is it get it done and then see what its like afterwards.   whats involved in an egr delete. does egr have to be removed and blanked or just deleted from the pcm. 

[south_bound]

In my case the EGR delete involved adding a blanking plate and wiping it electronically as part of the remap.  I got it done primarily because of the issues I had heard relating to the EGR reliability and on the advice of the remapper who said I might see an improvement in driveability (without making it a selling point or committing to it) - so it was nice that I did notice the difference in a good way.  I can send you the details of the guys I used near Bristol and would highly recommend them though they are not exactly on your doorstep.  Not sure if your 1.6tdci is the 16v or 8v version so it might react differently but would be worth asking them for advice in any case..

[michaelburrows]

this really is a bit of an issue isnt it. mines a 2.0 16 v duratorq engine. im in a way glad its not just my car and that others ate affected too. it does p me off no end. it feels like i have no clutch control of the car or just started driving. im suprised ford created this monster and deny any problem exists. id still like to hear of any other owners with this problem and whether they live with it   wot they have done about it   or not even noticed it.       

[Ryan_Tango]

12 hours ago, michaelburrows said:

would a remap and egr delete sort the problem on my 62 plate mk3  or is it get it done and then see what its like afterwards.   whats involved in an egr delete. does egr have to be removed and blanked or just deleted from the pcm. 

A remap yes, but don't mess with the EGR valve on the MK3 it doesn't cause problems and isn't the cause of your weak pulls, after a remap my car was perfect no EGR involved 

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, michaelburrows said:

this really is a bit of an issue isnt it. mines a 2.0 16 v duratorq engine. im in a way glad its not just my car and that others ate affected too. it does p me off no end. it feels like i have no clutch control of the car or just started driving. im suprised ford created this monster and deny any problem exists. id still like to hear of any other owners with this problem and whether they live with it   wot they have done about it   or not even noticed it.       

If people don't notice it, how can they confirm they have the same issue?   I drove my sisters car last week as she complained of a noise...immediately noticed the clutch was awful, only engaged at the very top of the pedal and no progressive bite, just have to give it some revs, come off the pedal and hope for the best...yet she doesn't see that as a problem!   The noise was a badly warped disc scuffing one of the pads btw...yet apparently she hasn't noticed any unusual vibrations at speed either.   

I don't agree with Ryan here, the EGR is definitely part of the issue, I've watched it on Forscan doing my own tests in an empty car park.  Maybe his EGR map was tweaked, it doesn't need to be deleted altogether.  I wouldn't recommend removing it on a modern diesel with a DPF.  A decent remap should help the fuelling issues low down though, which would improve the issue, but not remove it completely unless they alter the EGR mapping as well.  Trouble is we can't say what a mapper will or won't adjust...that's up to them, so it is a bit of a trial and error thing, though if you go custom, they'll probably tweak the map further if you're still not happy with it.

[DickP]

Hi

Are there any recommendations for around Manchester who are competent at mapping this generation of Focus?

Thanks

[TomsFocus]

8 minutes ago, DickP said:

Hi

Are there any recommendations for around Manchester who are competent at mapping this generation of Focus?

Thanks

I've had a few remote maps (via email) from DERVTECH over the years, can't fault them and pretty sure they're in Manchester.  Might be worth asking them if they've done any Mk3 2.0TDCI Focus'.

[FatHead1979]

5 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

The noise was a badly warped disc scuffing one of the pads btw...yet apparently she hasn't noticed any unusual vibrations at speed either.   

Sounds like my wife, years ago she drove her car for about 2 months with no meat left on the rear pads.  The discs were purple from the heat and and about as much use as an Eicher disc, when I mentioned it she said "Oh yeah, I meant to mention its been making a weird noise for a while!!!) 

[Abbadon]

This sounds familiar, I drove our people carrier for the first time in months, when we went on holiday, and realised the front brakes were pretty shot, one side no meat on pad... other side almost the same. Wife said " I kept meaning to mention it wasnt stopping so well...."

 

[Botus]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:15 AM, TomsFocus said:

It doesn't really work like that.  As your car is well out of warranty, the only thing it would affect is if your car gets recalled for a PCM update (like the clutch one on the later EcoBoosts), Ford would just wipe your map and put theirs on.  The mapper should be able to give you a new map for free if it's a decent company.  It won't affect servicing at all.  There are some mappers that 'block' PCM access (to stop people stealing their maps), but this is more of a VAG issue, I haven't heard of anyone having this issue with a Ford.  If you use something like Bluefin then you can remove it as an when you like anyway.

I'd check with superchips before loading a previous original map over a new genuine one....

on my BMW they said never do it, it will brick the car.... they were happy to wipe the bluefin and give an approved map suitable for the later BM map for free so you start afresh