Flashing PATS light, non starter.

[Mogs]

2005 Focus Ghia.

The wife phoned me early this morning after her night-shift saying that the car wouldn't start. My daughter gave me a lift to collect her and the car so took jump leads and a tow strap.

On arrival I asked what the problem was and she said I dunno, it just won't turn over. As she said that she turned the key and the car started! She switched off and back on and it started again. A couple of seconds later she turned off and back on and it wouldn't turn over, just the mad flashing red light of the PATS going about 3 or 4 times a second and it's been that way since. I should have kicked her there and then for switching it off but she'd ***** me up 🙂

So, got the car home (not without bodywork damage I might add, but that's a separate issue) and after a quick scan through these pages suspected the transponder ring thingy that surrounds the ignition barrel.

Whipped the one of my daughters 1.6 Petrol 55 plate Focus to try it and it's still the same. Her car starts fine with my transponder ring so that kinda rules that out.

Next we swapped the entire instrument cluster. Firstly I put my cluster in her car and had rapid red light so I thought i'd found the problem, but putting her IC in mine had the same issue as rapid red light and not turning over.

Having trawled these pages this afternoon would I be right in saying that you can't just swap the IC and expect it to work without re-programming with Forscan?

I bought an all singing all dancing ELM cable from the guy that you all recommend on here many months ago and plugged it in just the once to have a quick look-see back then. The next day I dropped my Laptop down the stairs in work and smashed it to bits!! 

I also tried to rule out a weak battery as I know that can give odd problems. Voltage was showing 12.2 on my test meter which was to be expected as I just towed the car for 10 miles with the hazzards on so connected a set of jump leads to see if it would start and still nada!

Gonna go check the connection plug on the PCM to see if there's anything obviously wrong there.

Any ideas guys?

Cheers all.

[stef123]

Have you got a spare key for the car?

[Mogs]

Checked the plug on the PCM and all 'seems' fine.

Checked the battery again and it's still showing 12.2. I would have expected it to recover a little over the last few hours. Obviously can't check what the cranking voltage drops to so got it on charge now and will try again in the morning. Fingers crossed it might just be as simple as the battery being on it's last legs.

[Mogs]

Yeah Stefan, she uses one key, and I use the other. Same issue with whatever key I use.

[Mogs]

Pats Code 11 whatever that means. More searching to be done 🙂

[Mogs]

Quick update. 

Charged battery overnight and she started first time. Switched off after a minute or so and back to square one.

Re-soldered the IC circuit board and still the same.

Got my daughter coming over to put her 2 month old battery on just to rule that out. 

Can't see it solving my problem though tbh

[Botus]

use the elm to read the fault codes

mind you with the fun you've had probably a list of rot to mislead... you could try to wipe … then hope it starts, then fails and you read one short list of pertinent faults.  without a pointer to where or what's at fault I think you are burning time and unlikely to get anywhere

[iantt]

My money is still on the cluster being faulty, 

[Mogs]

Cheers Botus. 

Got an old laptop off a mate waiting for me in work tonight. Not sure how good it is, but i'm sure it'll be good enough to install Forscan on, and i've got a decent modified OBD cable to plug into the car so we'll see.

Thanks Ian, still got my suspicions about the cluster too but it's never given me any previous problems like they sometimes do, ie sweeping or jumping needles, disco lights etc. I believe it's already been soldered in the past as it had non ford stickers on it. And if it had been done before they did a very neat job of it. Pics below.

[Mogs]

Any idea what components make up the PATS system?

If i'm right it's the clocks, key, and PCM??

Might just see if I can source a complete set. I'll get some part numbers and see if I can match em, and I believe they have to be a very close match ie, 1.6vti, Ghia model, so abs, cruise, etc etc Will I still have to do any programming with Forscan though??

[LTIronWolf]

Hey Steve,

Recently conquered my own PATS issues so I thought I'd pitch in.

First of all, are all connections secure in the car? You mentioned you checked the PCM plug, but double check the connector on the back of the IC as well - I've had mine come loose without touching it.

Error 1:1 seems unusual, and doesn't exist - are you sure it wasn't error 2:1? The codes can be read from the flashing light after it stops rapidly blinking (about a minute's wait), and will blink the first digit, pause, then blink the next digit. For example, error code 1:6 would be 1 blink, a pause, then 6 blinks. This code will repeat 10 times or so until the light goes out. If it is error 2:1, this indicates that the car doesn't have enough keys programmed into memory - you mentioned your wife only uses the one key, so this may be the problem. Which seems unusual, as it worked previously.

As you can't currently use a laptop and an OBD cable, you can try reading DTC codes from the hidden menu in the cluster. To access it, have your key in the ignition in the '0' position, press and hold down the 'set/reset' button on the left stalk while turning the key to the '2' position, then let go once the cluster shows up "diagnostic" on the display. You can then cycle through the menu using the flick switch as you would normally. It will display the DTC codes, but they will be in a coded version - use this guide here to decode them: 

 

On 10/16/2018 at 5:53 PM, Mogs said:

Whipped the one of my daughters 1.6 Petrol 55 plate Focus to try it and it's still the same. Her car starts fine with my transponder ring so that kinda rules that out.

Next we swapped the entire instrument cluster. Firstly I put my cluster in her car and had rapid red light so I thought i'd found the problem, but putting her IC in mine had the same issue as rapid red light and not turning over.

Having trawled these pages this afternoon would I be right in saying that you can't just swap the IC and expect it to work without re-programming with Forscan?

3

Yes, you're correct in thinking that the cluster doesn't transfer - the cluster and the PCM are married together, and form a pair inside the car to complete the PATS system. They work as a unit to identify if the key corresponds to one in memory, and allow the immobilizer to disable if everything matches up. 

Batteries can sometimes upset the PCM, and it will not power up if it detects an unstable voltage, or anything below 10v, as the smart charge system inside the Focus is responsible for this. As long as the battery is stable at 12.2v, it shouldn't be a problem which is why it's somewhat unusual. I'd test your daughter's battery just in case, so we can rule out that it's not the battery. However it's very strange that the car was able to start once, but then it died again - double check all connections and make sure there's nothing questionable.

Reflowing the cluster was a good step to take - this is usually the most common problem whenever PATS issues occur and can cause anything from engine RPMs dropping to disco lights to the car refusing to start. Now that you have a laptop handy, see if you can read any DTCs using FORScan so we can get a clearer picture of what's going on. PATS programming is possible with FORScan, but I'd leave it as a last resort until we know what the exact problem is - especially since your wife currently only has one key, as PATS requires two keys programmed into memory for it to start after being initialized.

So, to summarise:

1. Read the exact error code from the immobilizer light
2. Read DTCs using FORScan
3. Double check the battery using a new one and see if your starting problems persist.

[Mogs]

LTIronWolf.

Read right through your post the other day. Fair play to you mate you don't give up do you :D Gonna go through it again sometime tonight in work just see if there's anything I'm missing.

Connector on the back of the clocks is absolutely solid, clips in and out no problem, nothing loose, no bent pins, no dirt or corrosion.

I'm reading the PATS error as 11. After waiting for the pats light to stop rapidly flashing it then flashes twice, pauses, flashes twice, pauses, and continues this for 10 cycles. So one flash followed by one flash is 11 isn't it?? Or am I interpreting it wrong. Could shoot a short vid of it tomorrow I suppose.

Yeah, my wife uses one key and I use the other. I use my motorbike to commute but if she's not working I take the car so both keys are in constant use with no previous issues, so 2 keys stored in memory.

2 hours ago, LTIronWolf said:

Yes, you're correct in thinking that the cluster doesn't transfer - the cluster and the PCM are married together, and form a pair inside the car to complete the PATS system. They work as a unit to identify if the key corresponds to one in memory, and allow the immobilizer to disable if everything matches up. 

So I can use my existing keys with a replacement IC and PCM?? I may discover the answer to this when I go through your previous posts.

Replaced my battery with my daughters even though I'm sure mine is fine. I just wanted to rule it out just to cross another thing off the list. Her battery is only 2mths old.

DTC codes are -

ROM LEVEL 0541

NVM TARGET ROM 0541

NVM EEPROM LVL 0001

MANUFACTURE START 66

MANUFACTURE HOURS 761E

DTC #01 D900

DTC #02 9600

ROAD SPEED 0 KMH AND MPH

SPEEDO GUAGE 005C

ENGINE SPEED 0000 (yeah no ***** :)

TACHO GUAGE 005D

ODO ROLL COUNT 0

FUEL A/D INPUT 109ish

FUEL  GUAGE 01B8

FUEL FLOW 00

FUEL PERCENT 1C

ENGINE TEMP 58C

TEMP GUAGE 00B5

battery 12.6/12.7/12.5/12.6 etc

DISTANCE TO EMPTY 118 MILES

RAFE 0.0 MPG

PATS KEY FLAGS 01

A/D INPUT 00 This fluctuates though between what looks like FA F8 F9 FA etc

A/D INPUT 01 00

A/D INPUT 02 Fluctuates 96, 97, 98

A/D INPUT 03 14

A/D INPUT 04 00

A/D INPUT 05 00

PORT A 00

PORT B 3D

PORT E 3A and 2A

PORT H 00

POJT J 00

PORT K 01

PORT L 00

PORT M 14

PORT P 00

PORT S 71

PORT T 88

PORT U 00

PORT V seems to change between 60 and 20

PORT W changes between 00 and 10

PERSONALITY 01,02,03,04 all 57.

One last thing. The laptop left for me in work is coal powered, has no USB port, and is older than me :) Got a chance of another one for tomorrow night though/

Thanks for all the help guys :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mogs]

A quick Google tells me that code P900 is 'Non specific can communications interruption' which could just be because I disconnected the battery.

P9600 means 'Pats ignition key transponder signal is not received, damaged key, or non pats key'. I would think this would first point to a bad transponder but my transponder works on my daughters Focus.

Hmm.

[LTIronWolf]

53 minutes ago, Mogs said:

LTIronWolf.

Read right through your post the other day. Fair play to you mate you don't give up do you 😄 Gonna go through it again sometime tonight in work just see if there's anything I'm missing.

 

Yep, that's me! I was driven by sentiment and persistence - It's been in the family for years, and I knew the car was capable of running so it seemed illogical to throw the towel in and give up. I learned a thing or two from my own experience, so I'll chip in what I know - there's always my thread to look over, although it's a different kind of PATS problem.

53 minutes ago, Mogs said:

I'm reading the PATS error as 11. After waiting for the pats light to stop rapidly flashing it then flashes twice, pauses, flashes twice, pauses, and continues this for 10 cycles. So one flash followed by one flash is 11 isn't it?? Or am I interpreting it wrong. Could shoot a short vid of it tomorrow I suppose.

2

You've got the right idea when counting the codes. The key part you mentioned is that it flashes twice after the initial rapid blinking - this is in fact counted as a '2', as opposed to '1', so your actual error code is 2:1. Error 2:1 indicates that there are less than 3 keys that are currently programmed into PATS memory. It will continue to drive (as it has), but ideally, you should program in another one or two keys. If you choose to do this, you have two ways to go about this:

1. Buy a brand new key from a Locksmith (Timpson will sell and cut you one for £120 which is the best offer I've seen so far)
2. Buy a second-hand genuine key (not a Chinese knock-off) and re-program that one.

Although some keys will not be suitable for reprogramming, and they'll be indicated by a DTC when the PCM detects an unprogrammed key. If memory serves me correctly, the DTC is something B2116x (take this exact code with a pinch of salt), where 'x' can be either 0 or 1 - keys that trigger a DTC to end in 0 are not suitable for programming (you'll find this in most cheap Chinese keys), and DTC triggering keys ending in 1 are suitable. Although the second-hand genuine key I bought also ended in 0 and yet it still worked, so don't take it for gospel either.

Going back to the 2:1 error, this seems unusual that the car is intermittently starting. Logic dictates it should either constantly start or not at all - I guess PATS can't make its mind up 😂 

1 hour ago, Mogs said:

Yeah, my wife uses one key and I use the other. I use my motorbike to commute but if she's not working I take the car so both keys are in constant use with no previous issues, so 2 keys stored in memory.

So I can use my existing keys with a replacement IC and PCM?? I may discover the answer to this when I go through your previous posts.

Replaced my battery with my daughters even though I'm sure mine is fine. I just wanted to rule it out just to cross another thing off the list. Her battery is only 2mths old.

 

What do you mean exactly, when you say you use one key and your wife uses the other? Do you both use your respective key for the same car, or are you trying to use a key programmed to your wife's car on another car?

You can use your existing keys, yes. However, they will need to be re-programmed to work with the new PCM + IC setup. All you need is FORScan + an extended license (both are free), and it's a relatively simple procedure. There are guides on the internet which I could link you to if you decide you need to do it. Although, with this whole key business, I'd rather leave this as a last resort.

Sounds like the original battery that your daughter's replaced is just fine - I'd say you can put it back and rule it out. As long as you test your battery's voltage and don't see your voltage visibly dropping before your eyes (like mine did after it was left at a garage for months), then it should be stable enough to use.

As for the data that you've thoroughly collected from your dash, we can focus on this:

1 hour ago, Mogs said:

DTC codes are -

 

DTC #01 D900

DTC #02 9600

 

Everything from ROM level to manufacture hours is info about the IC and the build data itself, but we don't currently need this so we'll set aside. Everything afterward is the analog sensors, which are more for testing purposes and a regular owner won't need to use. Now, the codes stored in the cluster aren't your typical DTC format - they're stored that way, and can be decoded easily using the guide I linked earlier on. The codes translate to:

• U1900 - CAN bus communication error, faulty or intermittent connections at ignition switch or PCM
• B1600 - PATS ignition key transponder, signal is not received

So starting with the first error - it's a fairly generic DTC that you get whenever PATS misbehaves. I've had it, you have, and pretty much every Tom, *****, and Harry who have posted on forums about PATS issues have had it. The only issue is that it's a vague, catch-all code to suggest something's wrong. Sometimes it implies that there's something wrong with the halo transceiver around the ignition barrel (especially when you have the second code), but this is normally a red herring - especially that you've tested another one and it all seemed to work fine.

The second error is a big clue - the little transponder that's inside the key is not sending out a signal which PATS is reading, so it won't disable. This might happen if the key was damaged by being hit or dropped, or the key wasn't programmed properly, or it lost its programming. I think this is the programming DTC code I mentioned earlier on, where it can end in a 0 or a 1. Try both keys (yours and your wife's) with the car, and see if at least one of them work. Judging by the error code from the immobilizer light, and the DTC, it seems the problem lies in your keys.

[LTIronWolf]

20 minutes ago, Mogs said:

P9600 means 'Pats ignition key transponder signal is not received, damaged key, or non pats key'. I would think this would first point to a bad transponder but my transponder works on my daughters Focus.

Hmm.

2

Working keys sometimes misbehave with PATS, it's not unheard of. Once you get your hands on a laptop (preferably one that has a USB port and isn't coal powered), scan for codes and see if you can get access to PATS programming. If you have two keys handy (yours and your wife's?), you can try erasing all keys from memory and reprogramming both keys back in. As you haven't changed the PCM or the IC, you won't need to initialize the modules.

[Mogs]

Just to clarify, it's just the one car we have with 2 keys that came with it when we bought it about 18mths ago, so we use one each. Both keys work with remote locking etc but as I understand it that's a separate system anyway.

Both keys malfunctioning at the same time seems unlikely but not impossible so I won't rule it out. It's just weird that the car started just the once yesterday morning and then wouldn't start again. Surely it wouldn't have started at all if the key went bad?? This is doing my feckin head in :D

Thanks mate.

[LTIronWolf]

7 hours ago, Mogs said:

Just to clarify, it's just the one car we have with 2 keys that came with it when we bought it about 18mths ago, so we use one each. Both keys work with remote locking etc but as I understand it that's a separate system anyway.

 

Ah I see, so you both use the car and just have a key each? I see what you mean now. 

Yes, the remote locking system is an entirely different beast, which is something that I didn't know straight away - you can have a key be programmed to the remote locking and not work with PATS, and vice versa. If both keys still work with remote locking, then they should be fine and haven't sustained any damage.

7 hours ago, Mogs said:

Both keys malfunctioning at the same time seems unlikely but not impossible so I won't rule it out. It's just weird that the car started just the once yesterday morning and then wouldn't start again. Surely it wouldn't have started at all if the key went bad?? This is doing my feckin head in 😄

Thanks mate.

 

It is unusual, but when it comes to PATS I've learned not to question that anything can happen - it's a very temperamental system on Mk2 Focuses that can easily be upset. As for the car not being able to start, it may be that the signal with the key isn't quite there so sometimes it will star and sometimes it doesn't. Think of it as a phone charger with a broken wire at the end - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and you have to bend it at a certain angle to get it to work. My theory is the same could be with your keys and causing PATS to misbehave, although I'm not sure.

What I'd advise now is getting your hands on a laptop with FORScan + an extended license, and an ELM327 cable that has the modified HS-CAN/MS-CAN switch. What you'll want to do is wipe both keys from memory, and reprogram them both in. This should reset everything, and the keys should work again with no room for them being temperamental by transmitting the wrong signal.

• https://forscan.org/download.html (download page)
• https://forscan.org/forum/extlic.php (extended license generator)
• https://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=839 (guide on all PATS programming)
• http://www.autokeyprog.com/login.php (PATS outcode/incode calculator - you'll need this to gain security access when doing PATS programming)

Perhaps you might already know this, but to get FORScan and the extended license you'll need an account on the forums - it's free and quick to get. Once you have FORScan downloaded and set up, connect to your Focus following the program's prompt - scan through all the modules and see what DTCs there are. Most likely it'll tell you the two that we already have, but it doesn't hurt to get a better picture. Once you decide you're ready, follow the guide on the PATS programming forum thread that I linked - you'll want to use two separate functions in PATS programming, which are 'Ignition key erase' and 'ignition key programming' (pretty self-explanatory as to what they do).

If you do any PATS programming, you may need to do one of three things when doing anything depending on the level of programming that you're doing. FORSCan may prompt you to get timed security access, single code access, or dual code access - you'll need to gain security access before doing PATS programming. FORScan has its own built-in code generator, but it's not very good so I suggest using the calculator that I've linked above. It's free to sign-up, but you can only use it a few times within a certain time period - some report a few times a day, some report a few times within an hour. That's all fine, just try not to spam security access requests when working with FORScan.

[FatHead1979]

8 hours ago, LTIronWolf said:

Once you get your hands on a laptop (preferably one that has a USB port and isn't coal powered), scan for codes and see if you can get access to PATS programming. 

[Tdci-Peter]

12 hours ago, Mogs said:

After waiting for the pats light to stop rapidly flashing it then flashes twice, pauses, flashes twice, pauses, and continues this for 10 cycles.

It is worth checking that flash code again, maybe.

I interpret it as code 22. I think the pause between the two digits is slightly shorter than the pause between the repeated pairs, but the gap between the flashes of a single digit are much shorter than either of those pauses.

But code 22 does not come up on Google as a valid Focus code. I have references to "Invalid ROM code" which seems to be an ECU problem, and maybe a duff transponder ring, but nothing at all definite for a Focus.

Forscan might help, when I connected on my Mk2 Focus with PATS problems, it gave a shed load of communication and invalid signal errors. But I had flash code 16 and it was the classic bad soldering on the connector problem. I also needed it to clear a rather permanent Theft DTC that a standard code reader would not clear.

From the way it came & went to start with, this problem does look a bit like a bad connection problem. I would want to look at the connections between the main connector on the IC and the IC pcb with a magnifying glass, especially the ones to the transponder ring. You would have to remove the needles and open up the IC to see this. I have a guide to this, and there are YouTubes.

Erasing & re-programming keys is a slightly dangerous option. If there is a fault with the ring, or if you get any connection problems via the ELM, then you will add to the problem. I would investigate other things first, and make sure that your computer & connection is reliable before re-programming PATS. It is recommended that you attempt to add any key you want to use prior to erasing keys, this tests that the key is valid and the transponder ring is working, without erasing all keys. It is in the Forscan page about PATS.

IC connector partial pin-out below. The transponder +12 (C391 pin 1) comes from Fuse F67 (F114 in later fuse boxes) in the passenger fuse box, which also supplies the IC at pin 4. The full schematic for a Mk2 Focus is here, and the IC is on page 85.

Guide to IC repair:

https://www.fordownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=40491

 

 

 

[Mogs]

Quick vid of the PATS code. Whadya think?

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPR8sn_t1iyY2gKErZNB3LBZe72w1EyeiwECmsT

Thanks for the ongoing help 👍

[Tdci-Peter]

18 hours ago, Mogs said:

Quick vid of the PATS code.

I get error 404 (URL not found) when I click on the link.

The IC DTCs can never be entirely trusted, for one thing there is no option to clear them so it is hard to be sure they are current. Old codes can sometimes last a long time. But B1600 does seem to point to either the transponder ring, or its connections back to the IC. You have tested the ring, and looked at the IC connector pins, so the solder connections on the IC remains a top suspect for me.

It would be possible to continuity test the wiring from the transponder connector to the IC harness connector, to rule out a wiring harness fault. And to check that the transponder has a good ground and 12v connections.

I think that invalid keys would give a different DTC, like B1601. But like Petras (LTIronWolf) says, the logic of the Ford PATS system can never be trusted either, so lost memory of keycodes or something like that can not be entirely ruled out.

[Mogs]

Cheers Pete, i'll upload the vid from my mobile in work now if I can to Youtube.

I took my transponder ring and fitted it to my daughters Focus and it worked fine, but hers gave the same problem on mine. I'll check all the wiring as a first step.

Cheers buddy.

[Mogs]

https://youtu.be/_BjiJOIWmJU

[Mogs]

Not sure if the link is working because Youtube is blocked in work. Cheers guys.

[Tdci-Peter]

22 minutes ago, Mogs said:

Not sure if the link is working because Youtube is blocked in work.

Yup, it worked. Looked like 11 to me, and identical to this:

And 11 seems to be the Transponder to IC connection fault, same as B1600.