HORRIBLE PULL AWAY UPDATE on 2.0 tdci

[TomsFocus]

Unfortunately, mapping is a massive compromise between emissions and driveability...sadly Ford seems to have ignored driveability on the Mk3 diesels, though that might be for financial reasons, they obviously don't have the money the big German companies do to spend on mapping.  It's probably also due to time constraints, the Mk3 was released before it was 'finished' in a few areas, mapping on the early cars being one of those areas, so a PCM update may help.*  The fact that the same issues occur on both the 1.6 & 2.0, and a large number are affected, says to me it isn't a fault that can be fixed by replacing a sensor or two, but I'm happy to be proved wrong if someone can find a cause.  It was one of the main reasons I ended up selling mine and going back to German, even with the emissions reduction map on my Golf it still drives perfectly in traffic & carparks, where I found the jerky Focus to be quite dangerous tbh. 

*Have you had the latest PCM update done on yours? (I'm losing track of who's had what done lol)

The rail pressure is regulated by the fuel pressure regulator on the HP pump, it's a variable solenoid type, rather than being vacuum controlled.  The PCM will send info to the FPR to adjust the pressure, based on readings from the FRPS (fuel rail pressure sensor).  The reason the anti-stall is quite harsh and quickly raises the pressure is to make sure there is excess pressure available for the injectors to avoid stalling, rail pressure will be very low if you're near the point of stall so wouldn't be able to supply the 'boost' the injectors need.

The pressure regulator on these isn't a cheap item I'm afraid! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Ford-Fuel-Pressure-Regulator-Valve-1736080/273525307626?epid=1609836825&hash=item3faf60f8ea:g:bnsAAOSwDX5b0cWB:rk:1:pf:0

[DickP]

Hi Tom

Thanks for the quick reply.

I am not so sure it's such a widespread issue as otherwise all the car reviews would also highlight the issue surely?

The dealership wouldn't attempt to update the PCM as they said there were no bullitens for my car. They also said any time the car was serviced it would automatically get any updates as they have to plug it in to the computer as part of the service process.

My car spent most of its life being serviced by franchise dealers so if what they said is true mine should be running the latest software.

It also puzzles me why sometimes it drives absolutely fine and most of the time it is a pain at setting off in stop start traffic.

If I increased revs to say 1200 to pull away it then blips the throttle to 1800 or so rpm and then the revs dive back to 1200. It does it as a pace faster than I can make the engine rev with no load (regardless of trying this at different parts of the rev range).  Sometimes it will do it twice if I slip the clutch long enough.

The only workaround I have found is if I am more aggressive with the throttle setting off, it will then limit the rpm to around 2000 and hold it there whilst setting off. No lurching! The only issue is that it's not ideal in stop start traffic and I am conscious it will not be doing the clutch or flywheel any favours.

Thanks,

[TomsFocus]

The reviews do mention it, exactly as you describe, the car needs a boot to get it moving smoothly...  It's nothing new, the Mk2 TDCi reviews said the same thing when I was looking to buy one of those over 4 years ago.  Ford just don't seem to be able to map diesels well.  Here's the first review I took from Google...  

"with an asthmatic off-boost delivery leading to some awkward moments when pulling away. The sure-fire cure is to give it a heavy boot from a standstill, but that’s entirely at odds with the Econetic Focus’s fuel-saving ethos. With practice and familiarity pulling away becomes less fraught, but it always feels like a more conscious effort than it should be."

I'm not really sure what else I can suggest tbh, would be very interested in the cure if you ever do find one though!

[DickP]

Hi

That is for the smaller capacity eco version of the 1.6 tdci isn't it?

I take your point however and will update if I resolve it. Very frustrating because the car is otherwise everything I want from a car of this class.

Thanks

[michaelburrows]

well i follow tbe tbreads on 2.0 tdci s bad pull aways hoping to find the cure for it. im really peed off with it. im taki g the plu ge tomorrow and going to get the car remapped with a 200bhp map. if anything changes ill post. in the meantime at least ill have a bit of fun with the big audis.

[michaelburrows]

well after putting up with the horrendous bad pull away on my 62 focus 2.0 tdci 163 model i took the plunge and have just had it remapped. totally done away with the issue and she now flys.  happy days

[DickP]

Hi Michael,

That's great news.

Would you mind messaging me the details of what was done and who did it please?

For the benefit of anyone else who might be wondering, I have also spoken with a friend who's family happens to have the previous model of Focus with the earlier incarnation of this engine.  It transpires their engine is not happy pulling away at less than 1800 rpm and they have always pulled away with revs around 2000 rpm since they bought it when it was new.  The car is now on circa 150k on the factory clutch.

Thanks,

[michaelburrows]

i had it done by james at phantom tuning in swanscomb kent. nr dartford crossing. had a 200 bhp performance map at a cost of three figures. but the differe ce is phenomenal

[michaelburrows]

On 1/11/2019 at 4:51 PM, michaelburrows said:

well after putting up with the horrendous bad pull away on my 62 focus 2.0 tdci 163 model i took the plunge and have just had it remapped. totally done away with the issue and she now flys.  happy days

actually bad pull aways returned.  better than b4 marginally. cant work out how it changed for the better after a remap and now it has returned.  this car has a mind of its own.  been reading about some ford recall on forum  something to do with a clutch sensor software.  stops too much power going to the road causing loss of revs to stop spin and save clutch??wonder if this has anything to do with it

[TomsFocus]

It's probably just placebo, you didn't notice the issue immediately because you were focussed on the the extra power.

The clutch recall is only on some EcoBoost petrol engines, it's not really relevant to this.  There are torque limiters in the standard diesel map to save the DMF (clutch is decent & strong on these, unlike the 1.0EB) but that just means it feels a bit flat at low rpms, shouldn't be jerky.

[michaelburrows]

yeh i proably got a bit carried away with it.  iv tried everything suggested now.  and no closer to a cure.  just gonna have to live with it i suppose. nature of the beast.  just makes me wonder tho if its just a few of us with the issue or whether others also have it but dont really realise cos you never see any other posts about it.  

[erictcleric]

Or they're used to it. I must admit that I tend to apply a little extra right foot when pulling away in any Ford from the last few years.

[michaelburrows]

i cant give more revs to pull away. the throttle seems very does wot it wants at lower revs. i tend to have to pull away at just above tickover .slightest touch of tbrottle and revs seem to surge up a bit and then as clutch is being released its like my foot has slipped off tbe throttle and it drops back to tickover. once car is slightly moving causes no problem at all. just the pulling away from standstill.

[erictcleric]

Same thing, slipping the clutch a little or pulling away in 2nd with extra revs is how I work around it. Or always start off pointing downhill... 

[michaelburrows]

i havnt tried pulling away in 2nd. do you not get the same experience as 1st??

[erictcleric]

I haven't noticed the same surge and loss of revs. Obviously it needs a bit more throttle and is slower off the line, but might be worth testing, especially with your remap (mine isn't remapped). 

[michaelburrows]

bit hard pulling away on a hill then. i dread hill starts.i try to avoid em. its not right tho is it. it shouldnt be like this.  tbere must be a problem.  are they all like it.  id like to drive a couple to compare

[DickP]

Hi

Sorry to hear that the map didn't resolve the issue Michael.  I would suggest trying to use more revs when pulling away.  I find if I let it rev up to around 2,000rpm it doesn't lurch and it also holds it around there and won't rev beyond it unless you push the pedal a lot further.  As in a previous post of mine, someone I know who as a mk2 facelift with the previous incarnation of this engine has said it can be stalled around 1400-1500 rpm when pulling away if you're not very careful.  This might suggest why Ford have mapped the mk3 this way.  I suppose it being a 16v twin cam engine might influence its behaviour too.

As to why we don't hear of it being an issue, I can only think other people must just use more revs as well regardless of what they're driving, rather than being used to a diesel's low rpm torque.

Thanks,

[michaelburrows]

ill will try the higher revs thing. seems a bit high for pull away tho . but anythings worth a go.   thanks dickp

[Botus]

if the symptoms remain after a quality remap, then we have one of two situations....

a) they are a more fuel, more boost bodge it merchant

b) there should clearly be a fault with the car

I'd first ask the mapping guys what they think, if they are competent they'd have the answer - if not, then you shouldn't have let them near your car.... and how come they didn't notify you of the fault already?

[Botus]

as I just posted on the clutch slip detection software thread, my sisters car NOW has this fault (post ford software update) its a 1.6 ecoboost 150PS petrol focus.  If you:

1) drive abnormally slowly (i.e. being a nuisance to every other road user) its normal.

2) drive like you stole, its normal

3) attempt to drive normally its a disaster of biblical proportions every single time

 

[michaelburrows]

i have tried all sorts now to cure this. from a ford pc  software update and  a remap  .it still persists.  however. i can pull away slowly at about 1200 rpm or slightly less no issues really or when i rev as was suggested to about 2k then go.  that also works. just seems more revs than i avtually want to give.  sound like a boy racer.  however it has days esoecially hot days and with very hot engine that the problem just dosnt exist at all.  its the wierdest thjng. just living with it. apart from that car runs a dream.