Winter wheel & tyres set up confusion

[Guest]

Hi ladies and gents,

 

I've been lurking about this forum since I got my Fiesta back in March 2017 - and I'd kindly ask for your experiences and answers when it comes to winter wheels and tyres.

 

I currently have the wheels and tyres from the factory on the car; 205/40 R17 on Continental CSC5 tyres. I've read a fair bit regarding downsizing wheels for winter tyres (cheaper in the long run; less chance of damage to the wheels, tyres and sensors as not swapping about twice per year) and I've noted the most popular size is 195/55 R15 - this suits me perfectly. I had my car serviced earlier today and was speaking to the Ford customer service advisor and mechanic - neither of whom could give me specific information on whether this would be ok, as they didn't know themselves from Ford. They also said that I would have to contact Ford myself, to be sure that fitting 15 inch wheels doesn't invalidate my warranty....this confused me because Ford sell Fiesta with exactly this tyre size from the factory?!

 

Anyhow, I have emailed Ford but had no reply as of yet.

 

My set up would be: Wheels: 15 inch steel wheels from Oponeo (£42 per wheel). Specs: 6.00Jx15; PCD 4x108; Offset: 47.50; Central Bore: 63.4; I've noted this set up would not have any effect on my speedo reading as the rolling circumference is identical.

 

Tyres: Continental ContiWinterContact TS860 - 195/55 R15, 85H; c.£74 per tyre;

 

Tyre pressure sensors: 4x sensors at £21 per sensor - part number 2036832 (parts number provided by Ford, but they want £35+ per sensor so I've found some OEM Ford ones on eBay for £21 each);

 

Could anyone provide me with their experience of this?

1. Does it invalidate the factory warranty (I can't see how it would!)?

2. Would the steel wheels require a specific set of lug nuts or anything else?

 

If there's anything else you'd like to add that I've missed, I'd be grateful for the feedback and sharing of knowledge!

 

Thank you in advance,

 

Craig.

[Luke4efc]

I honestly don't see the point. Sure for a hot hatch with 200+ hp then yeah go ahead, but not for a run of the mill fiesta. The stock continentals will work fine all year round or they wouldn't fit them in the first place. Just sounds like a lot of effort and money for not a lot of gain.

[jbell]

45 minutes ago, Luke4efc said:

I honestly don't see the point. Sure for a hot hatch with 200+ hp then yeah go ahead, but not for a run of the mill fiesta. The stock continentals will work fine all year round or they wouldn't fit them in the first place. Just sounds like a lot of effort and money for not a lot of gain.

Depends what you're driving on. More than a few cm of snow and sure there'll be a difference. Winter like this mild one so far and there won't be a difference. 

I run 14's in winter and 17's in summer. Narrower wheel with higher profile definitely helps on snow. 

[Guest]

@Luke4efc, I take your point. However, I tend to drive - to and from work - at night/early mornings when it's coldest. It certainly wasn't fun driving in the snow during March this year. Sure, it's an initial extra outlay but it'll pay for itself over the next 3 or 4 years in extended tyre life for my summer tyres; will enable me to shifts for work where others can't get in due to not having appropriate tyres/ability to get mobile; will likely be able to sell on the steel wheels for a small recuperation of money etc. Plus, it won't cost me a penny with my insurer as they're happy for me to switch sets at any point, without an admin/modification fee.

 

@jbell What specs are you running for your winter set up? Specifically, the PCD of your 14 inch wheels (4x108?)? And did they require a different set of lug nuts and a specific locking wheel nut?

[jbell]

Couldn't find the email with full specs. Usual nuts fit mine, except for the locking nuts; so I needed an extra four nuts. 

[TomsFocus]

8 hours ago, craigjoshuamuscat said:

 

@jbell What specs are you running for your winter set up? Specifically, the PCD of your 14 inch wheels (4x108?)? And did they require a different set of lug nuts and a specific locking wheel nut?

PCD has to be 4x108, that's physically set by the hub.  It's the offset (ETXX) that has some adjustment, do you know the offset of your current wheels?

Steel wheels don't come with locking wheel nuts as they're not worth anything to thieves.

195/55/15 is an expensive profile btw, on cars that came with that as standard (306 GTi6s) the majority of owners dropped the profile to 195/50 which is considerably cheaper with a larger range, but does losea little ride comfort and puts the speedo out slightly.

[Guest]

@jbell Could you direct me towards the ones you purchased, if you still have the link? Or will they be different to 15 inch locking wheel nuts?

@TomsFocus The PCD is 4x108. In regards to the offset, it' the same for my car - Zetec S Black Edition - as it is for any other Fiesta running 205/40 R17 (e.g. 1.0 125bhp EcoBoost or an ST) with the offset at 47.5. The offset for the 15 inch steelies is also 47.5 too. I'll be sticking with 195/55 instead of 195/50 so that my speedo reading doesn't change at all.

 

So, tyres meet are good (speedo-wise and insurance are happy); steel wheels meet the spec for offset (47.5); 6Jx15; PCD is 4x108; All I need now is 4 locking wheel nuts and I think I'm all set.

Out of interest, what's the ride and handling like on winters with the taller sidewall?

 

Appreciate your input - very helpful!

Edited January 6, 2019 by Guest
More info included;

[jbell]

Wheel nuts don't matter really as long as they're correct for this model of fiesta. 14/15/17" makes no difference there. I didn't bother going for locking nuts since the winter alloys aren't worth much compared to the summers. 

Ride and handling are fine, perhaps even better than my summers. 

[Guest]

@jbell Yeah? Cheers for the info - very helpful indeed. I'll contact Ford directly to double check everything too. Thank you for your help 🙂

[isetta]

On my previous Fiesta I changed the 15inch wide standard wheels for the narrow 14 inch   175/65/14.   These are the wheels that were standard on the Studio (base) model and supplied as spare wheels in most Fiestas after 2002 year..  easy to get on eBay, often as unused spare wheels, but most won't have the pressure sensors in them. Even if unused, some might be quite old now. All tyres made in the last 30 years approx have the date of manufacture on the side wall, usually only one side wall, not both. It has the week and year. eg.  2610  means week 26 of year 2010 (so about June 2010).

I definitely find the narrower tyres better in the snow, they seem to cut in more instead of slithering about on the surface. 

[jbell]

1 hour ago, craigjoshuamuscat said:

@jbell Yeah? Cheers for the info - very helpful indeed. I'll contact Ford directly to double check everything too. Thank you for your help 🙂

Just to clarify the standard locking nuts likely won't fit (they didn't on mine) - but the standard non-locking nuts fit fine. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, isetta said:

On my previous Fiesta I changed the 15inch wide standard wheels for the narrow 14 inch   175/65/14.   These are the wheels that were standard on the Studio (base) model and supplied as spare wheels in most Fiestas after 2002 year..  easy to get on ebay, often as unused spare wheels, but most won't have the pressure sensors in them. Even if unused, some might be quite old now. All tyres made in the last 30 years approx have the date of manufacture on the side wall, usually only one side wall, not both. It has the week and year. eg.  2610  means week 26 of year 2010 (so about June 2010).

I definitely find the narrower tyres better in the snow, they seem to cut in more instead of slithering about on the surface. 

Thank you for the reply, @isetta - I'll be buying new anyhow. I'll be going for the 15 inch steels as most Fiestas come from the factory on them - I think my local Ford garage just didn't know the specifications of what I wanted/needed to know.

 

@jbell So the 4 usual locking wheel nuts fit, but the single one doesn't? Or is it the other way round?

[jbell]

Usual four locking nuts did not fit my new wheels. Other (standard non locking) nuts fit the new wheels fine. 

[Guest]

Update for anyone who may be interested (or not). Called Ford directly - they've no idea what specs to give me. Called a few local dealerships and they have said they can't advise me to downsize my wheels as that's not how it came from the factory (understandable); nor could they say whether it would void the warranty for fitting a wheel that meets the size/specifications in the handbook. Frustrating!

Oh and they didn't seem to know which locking wheel nuts would fit the steel wheels. All they could say was what @jbell said - the locking nuts that came from the factory with the car, don't fit steel wheels...helpful.

[TomsFocus]

You don't need locking nuts...no one will nick steel wheels, poverty spec models with steels as standard don't get lockers from the factory which is why there aren't any available for a retrofit.  Just get a set of 4 standard, non-locking nuts to use with them.  

As for the warranty, it will depend on what warranty claim you make.  For example, if you make a claim for an engine or audio issue, that can't possibly have been caused by the wheels so they shouldn't query that.  If you claim for a damaged hub or snapped wheel stud for example, they could argue that the non-standard wheels contributed to it.

[ThaiFiesta]

If you’re running 6” wheels you shoukd consider reducing the offset to 42, as per the stock 6” wheels. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

You don't need locking nuts...no one will nick steel wheels, poverty spec models with steels as standard don't get lockers from the factory which is why there aren't any available for a retrofit.  Just get a set of 4 standard, non-locking nuts to use with them.  

As for the warranty, it will depend on what warranty claim you make.  For example, if you make a claim for an engine or audio issue, that can't possibly have been caused by the wheels so they shouldn't query that.  If you claim for a damaged hub or snapped wheel stud for example, they could argue that the non-standard wheels contributed to it.

@TomsFocusI'm definitely mixing up my terms for locking wheel nuts/lug nuts etc so my apologies for any confusion. So the same set of 4 non-locking wheel nuts as those that came with the car from the factory? Or is there a parts number/link you can direct me to? Swear I'm just going round in circles.

 

I've called 3 different dealers and they've all given me different parts numbers - and all have been for different Ford models (C-Max; Focus; Mondeo). Feel like I'm going a bit daft with it.

 

@ThaiFiesta The only wheels that come up on Oponeo for 15 inch are all 6.00J x 15; and the offset is 47.5 - nothing comes up for a 42 offset. What effect will this have? Wheels already ordered though...

[jbell]

https://www.fordpartsuk.com/alloy-wheel-nut-1223

 

If you hadn't already ordered you could also look at 14 inch, tyre size is 175/65/14. This is what I use for winter and it is cheaper than 15's and as a bonus is the exact same size as the spare wheel. So you can drive it without the speed or mileage restriction if needed. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, jbell said:

https://www.fordpartsuk.com/alloy-wheel-nut-1223

 

If you hadn't already ordered you could also look at 14 inch, tyre size is 175/65/14. This is what I use for winter and it is cheaper than 15's and as a bonus is the exact same size as the spare wheel. So you can drive it without the speed or mileage restriction if needed. 

@jbell Thank you for the link - so 4 of those and I'm all set?

 

Re: 14 inch tyres - I've already ordered the 195/55 tyres with 15 inch steel wheels as the offset calculator (https://tiresize.com/wheel-offset-calculator/) keeps it as close to standard as possible with a negligible difference in speedometer reading. Also, in my handbook the minimum speed and load rating is 85 H - as far as I can see on Camskill, the tyres on offer at 175/65 R14 are only up to 'T' - this would invalidate insurance as it goes below the minimum speed rating (which is H for my vehicle).

Who knew this could be such a faff and that Ford would be unwilling/unable to provide the correct information regarding wheel and tyre specifications for their own vehicles! Thank you for your replies 🙂

[jbell]

Yes, four of those. T rating shouldn't matter (you couldn't rely on being insured at 120mph on a public road, and the fiesta caps out at 123, so there's only 5mph which you wouldn't be allowed to drive anyway that the tyre isn't rated for). So realistically all you need to do is not bounce off the limiter on a track. 

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, craigjoshuamuscat said:

@TomsFocusI'm definitely mixing up my terms for locking wheel nuts/lug nuts etc so my apologies for any confusion. So the same set of 4 non-locking wheel nuts as those that came with the car from the factory? Or is there a parts number/link you can direct me to? Swear I'm just going round in circles.

 

I've called 3 different dealers and they've all given me different parts numbers - and all have been for different Ford models (C-Max; Focus; Mondeo). Feel like I'm going a bit daft with it.

 

@ThaiFiesta The only wheels that come up on Oponeo for 15 inch are all 6.00J x 15; and the offset is 47.5 - nothing comes up for a 42 offset. What effect will this have? Wheels already ordered though...

Yes, just a set of 4 standard wheel nuts the same as you already have will replace the lockers.

They are global wheel nuts on modern Ford's so doesn't matter which model it is.  This is a quick link to the correct ones but there are probably cheaper about.

https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Ford_Fiesta_1.0_2017/p/car-parts/car-transmission/transmission-parts/wheel-bolt-and-wheel-nut/?924590191&1&cd8de2668a79e7c8f4fabb9b9841fbe70252c1fc&000866&type=shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjszhBRDgARIsAH8Kgvf7g6aDPi2kUpKmDL0kI_TmwQcZfUjEhfdekuZPhPDS9FQIDy9-2ccaAvItEALw_wcB

The dealers you asked probably want to supply a whole set of steel wheel nuts which are different to alloy wheel nuts, but as jbell has confirmed the alloy ones you currently have will work fine with steels, you just need 4 more to replace the lockers.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, jbell said:

Yes, four of those. T rating shouldn't matter (you wouldn't be insured at 120mph on a public road anyway, and the fiesta caps out at 123). 

@jbell Thank you - will purchase those from the Fordpartsuk website as I'll also be ordering their tyre pressure sensors too as they say they fit my vehicle (both parts numbers 2036832 & 2318530 are apparently the same items - is it me, or are Ford a confusing bunch when it comes to parts numbers?!).

 

@TomsFocus Cheers for the link. I don't think the dealers understood what I was asking - perhaps because I got my terms mixed up (locking/non-locking nuts). Did you have sensors fitted to your wheels if you had them done post-2014? As I understand it, the first time requires the sensors to be coded/calibrated to my vehicle but from thereon in, I can swap the sets out depending on the weather, without needing to get re-calibration done every time - have I got that right?

All I have left to purchase now are those 4 nuts and the tyre pressure sensors 🙂

 

Thank you for your replies - far more informative than Ford themselves!

[jamkart]

On 1/5/2019 at 9:25 PM, Luke4efc said:

I honestly don't see the point. Sure for a hot hatch with 200+ hp then yeah go ahead, but not for a run of the mill fiesta. The stock continentals will work fine all year round or they wouldn't fit them in the first place. Just sounds like a lot of effort and money for not a lot of gain.

What a load of rubbish.  All cars benefit from Winter Tyres when the temperature is below 7 Degrees.

 

I fitted 205/40 R17 winter tyre to my standard Mk7 Fiesta wheels and it transformed the handling in cold and slippy conditions and was amazing in last years snow.  I fitted BF Goodrich g-force Winter 2 tyres which are not currently available, but I would recommend the Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3 tyres which I currently have fitted to my Mk8 ST3.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, jamkart said:

What a load of rubbish.  All cars benefit from Winter Tyres when the temperature is below 7 Degrees.

 

I fiited 205/40 R17 winter tyre to my standard Mk7 Fiesta wheels and it transformed the handling in cold and slippy conditions and was amazing in last years snow.  I fitted BF Goodrich g-force Winter 2 tyres which are not currently available, but I would recommend the Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3 tyres which I currently have fitted to my Mk8 ST3.

@jamkart I agree - hence why I'm going for the full set up. I looked at the winter tyres for the standard size wheels but didn't fancy it - over 2/3 years it works out cost neutral for me; plus less hassle.

 

Also, how're you enjoying the new ST? They look lovely (the rear has grown on me somewhat). Congrats on the lovely car!

[jamkart]

I love the Mk8 ST3 and always planned to buy one as soon they were released.  I was lucky and had one of the first available in the UK complete with performance pack and LED lights, which I have been running since June 2018. 

 

Top gear magazine have voted it their car of the year 2018 https://www.topgear.com/car-news/best-2018/tg-mags-car-year-ford-fiesta-st