new st-line, worried about security.

[Shepster48]

Hi

first post, had fords all my life, started with a cortina, many escorts (my mk3 Ghia was my fave) an Orion and even an old mk 2 fiesta in my time. 

i currently lease a 66 mk7 st-line 140. I love the car but it’s now coming to the end of its lease so it’s time to get another. 

Ive got my eyes on a new mk8 140 st-line. Im liking the new interior, the front looks great, the back, hmmm think I prefer the mk 7 but that’s just me. 

Anyhow, while doing my homework on the new st-line I’ve picked up on reports that the security is compromised due to the completely lazy inclusion of a start button. Now I’ve been driving for 30 years and the key has done me fine. I can’t get my head around the fact they have gone for a starter button as standard instead of an optional extra. (while getting rid of the centre console that I love to rest my arm on). The crazy thing is we now have to spend twenty times longer than we save (by not putting the key in the barrel) by having to install/remove an aftermarket security device each time. ( as well as the extra expense of having to buy this extra security (I’m leaning to a disklock)

So to satisfy the lazy 1% of the buying market, Ford have put each car with a start button at risk of theft. So I’m looking for advice regarding security.

I’m reading reports that if the alarm goes off then the obd2 is disabled for 10 minutes. Can anyone comment if this is true? I’m dubious as these cars are being stolen in seconds.

 Now as mine will be keyless start not entry they will need to smash the window if they don’t have my key. (I Sleep with my keys on my bedside table, and I intend to keep it in a Faraday wallet. I’m guessing if the car senses when the key is in the car to start it must be giving out even a small close signal)  

Can anyone comment if the perimeter alarm will definitely pick up on a window smash and if the mk8 has a dead spot that the perimeter alarm doesn’t pick up on like before.

My thinking for security is:- have a dummy obd2 fitted (with a siren) or have the obd2 moved. Im sure they will have to set the perimeter alarm off to get to find the new position of the obd2.  I will have a large sticker stating obd2 is disabled and stating a tracker is also fitted. Finally I will also get a disklock that should also give a physical deterrant.

At work, my car is safe as Houses. We have 24 hour security stopping anyone getting into the works and it’s parked a mile inside the works, it’s like a fortress as we have expensive items on site. It’s that safe I always leave my car there when I go on holiday. On a normal night the car is parked on my drive near the lounge and under our bedroom window. I don’t have a garage but I will hear if the alarm goes off and me and my bat can be downstairs in 20 seconds. 

am I being too paranoid? I know an st-line is not an st but if they are easy to nick it’s still a 16K car.

Are Most of the fiesta’s being stolen the ones with keyless entry (not start) and using an amplifier and receiver. The videos I’ve seen seem to be mk 7 rather than mk 8, but as more fiestas are getting stolen now due to the obd2 start button flaw, I’m assuming it’s actually more mk8’s being stolen. 

It’s actually putting me off leasing the new fiesta. I really think Ford dropped a b*ll*ck here especially on the st-line having it as standard. I would have much preferred having an extra such as folding mirrors, sat nav or a blooming centre console instead.

I have to decide this week what I want to lease. i may even just purchase a car without a start button instead.  I may even go German for the first time ever (as long as it doesn’t come with a stupid start button) 

 

[billyboy]

Not sure what the OBD has to do with the alarm, I thought it was the onboard diagnostic tool.

[WES180]

8 hours ago, Shepster48 said:

am I being too paranoid?

 

Yes! Seriously, if you are that worried before you've even bought it I would buy something else. You don't want a car adding stress to your life.

[Tiexen]

If someone wants your car they will break into your house and take the key, jump you as your getting into your car etc,

If its a 60k Range Rover I might be worried but for a Fiesta (proper ST excepted) as long as you double lock it alarm and deadlock I'm sure it will be fine

[Mavroz]

Not sure what the issue about security with the start button is? The keys have to be in the car for the vehicle to start using the button,  so if the keys aren't stolen the car can't be started. (which can be done in a barrel lock also if stolen).

To get into the car, a window would have to be smashed and I presume the alarm would go off.

I could not turn the ignition on from the passenger seat without the keys being in the little well behind the gearstick, so I am guessing the range of the key is in a very close proximity to this.

If all the extras are wanted such as folding mirrors blah blah,  upgrade to the X.

Many cars now are keyless start, by the means of a button. I drive a range of cars at work from Kias to Bmw's and they all have start buttons.

Personal preference 》》 stop / start buttons are far better than keys ..

Insurance and gap insurances are there for cars being stolen / written off when taking a PCP or buying from new.

If people are that worried about having a new car stolen, more so a new car with a stop start button then either look for an older car that doesn't have one or get a new very basic model that doesn't offer keyless start/stop.

Worrying about this is on par with worrying that someone on a supermarket carpark wants to scratch new cars for the hell of it.... yes it does happen, yes you are unlucky If it does happen to you but the car is insured, can be replaced or repaired.

Such things would never stop me having a new car.

Just my personal thoughts and opinions.

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

As others have said, don't see you're any worse off with keyless start (as opposed to keyless entry) compared to a normal key. One bit of personal paranoia though is I always keep the key on my person, not drop it in a cupholder etc, so it leaves the car with me. (I'm a beggar for forgetting things -  and it's not age, I've  always been like that!😀).

[DG97]

50 minutes ago, Mavroz said:

Not sure what the issue about security with the start button is? The keys have to be in the car for the vehicle to start using the button,  so if the keys aren't stolen the car can't be started. (which can be done in a barrel lock also if stolen).

To get into the car, a window would have to be smashed and I presume the alarm would go off.

I could not turn the ignition on from the passenger seat without the keys being in the little well behind the gearstick, so I am guessing the range of the key is in a very close proximity to this.

If all the extras are wanted such as folding mirrors blah blah,  upgrade to the X.

Many cars now are keyless start, by the means of a button. I drive a range of cars at work from Kias to Bmw's and they all have start buttons.

Personal preference 》》 stop / start buttons are far better than keys ..

Insurance and gap insurances are there for cars being stolen / written off when taking a PCP or buying from new.

If people are that worried about having a new car stolen, more so a new car with a stop start button then either look for an older car that doesn't have one or get a new very basic model that doesn't offer keyless start/stop.

Worrying about this is on par with worrying that someone on a supermarket carpark wants to scratch new cars for the hell of it.... yes it does happen, yes you are unlucky If it does happen to you but the car is insured, can be replaced or repaired.

Such things would never stop me having a new car.

Just my personal thoughts and opinions.

 

100% agreed with this. Majority of cars have keyless start and quite a significant proportion have keyless entry too which is where the issues may begin. I too personally dont see a problem with keyless start alone and like above, there's insurance to sort you out if it happens. Having your car stolen is definitely an unpleasant experience but to take a lot of time worrying about just adds unnecessary stress to your life. You can have your car stolen, your house burgled, your phone stolen etc, it happens but it doesnt put anybody off going about things they want to do. 

[TomsFocus]

People are even nicking Titaniums these days, I know, as I'm looking to buy a stolen recovered one currently lol, insurance write them off as cat N so that drops it into my budget but without any damage to repair (just replacing keys lol)...

If you buy a nice looking car, it will always be a target to thieves and vandals.  Are you being too paranoid?  Depends where you live...  Two of my neighbours fit crook locks to their cars every single night  but as far as I know no-one on our road has ever had any vehicle issues, and there are quite a few nice cars in the car park here, can't say I've been worried about mine in the car park even when they weren't insured.  If I lived right on the street in a rough town centre location it would be different!  Personally I'd not bother with a crook lock, too much hassle for me, but will be moving and/or disabling the OBD port.

[WES180]

Shepster, you are putting so much thought into the car it makes me wonder is your house like Fort Knox? I mean, it takes thieves a matter of seconds to gain entry past a standard multi point euro lock cylinder unless it's Anti Pick, Anti Bump etc. Is a comprehensive intruder alarm fitted with call centre monitoring and mobile alert? Is cctv fitted around and in the property? Is the full perimeter floodlit along with motion sensors? Are your fence panels secured so can't be lifted? Are any ladders stored outside padlocked?

I'm just saying that sometimes we can over think things trying to deal with potential scenarios that may never happen but the sad truth is that if someone really wants to steal a car then they are going to take it regardless. I would much rather them scan a signal from my keys and take my car than break into my family home to get them.

[ElliotReid]

If the MK8 ST-Line Fiesta's OBD port is mounted the same as the ST's you could do for simple peace of mind is add a piece of metal blocking it as in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdAatrqiRP4

I'm going to buy a new Titanium later this year and if the OBD is mounted in this way I'm going to do that as it's a simple thing to do.

If you're really worried you could go for the Autowatch Ghost Immobiliser.

[robbyvrs]

2 hours ago, ElliotReid said:

If the MK8 ST-Line Fiesta's OBD port is mounted the same as the ST's you could do for simple peace of mind is add a piece of metal blocking it as in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdAatrqiRP4

I'm going to buy a new Titanium later this year and if the OBD is mounted in this way I'm going to do that as it's a simple thing to do.

If you're really worried you could go for the Autowatch Ghost Immobiliser.

Yep it's mounted the same - easy to reach if a window is smashed 😞

As mentioned above GAP insurance is worth considering for piece of mind - i use insurethegap which cost around £78 compared to dealers selling it for £299+

[Mavroz]

58 minutes ago, robbyvrs said:

Yep it's mounted the same - easy to reach if a window is smashed 😞

As mentioned above GAP insurance is worth considering for piece of mind - i use insurethegap which cost around £78 compared to dealers selling it for £299+

Yes, I agree, don't take the dealer gap as you will pay around 3 x the going rate.

[jace1969]

Reading on here its so true how much we all worry about day to day stuff,mine is a 2011 Titanium and i love it and would be so down if someone stole it but taking

a step back and thinking its a car and the stress worrying is massive on top on other things we all go through.

All these bits we do just makes more time for the person to mess about to remove which is a good thing and the moving the port is i would say what i would do if i had

something like a ST or sport/high spec new car but i have a cheap steering lock with a special key but only £12 but is solid,they all take from 1min to 3min to remove

just look at videos.

I think the ODB port is the way i would go as for being stolen but i had one broken into years ago but didn't steal it as i had a cut off switch fitted but the damage they did

was mad...Screwdriver all into dash,smashed clocks and stabbed seats so the car was a complete wreck so in one way i wish they stole it and never seen it,was old escort.

[TDCiST]

I don’t know about the mk8 fiesta, but there are dead spots in the alarm sensors. And thieves know where to smash windows to avoid setting it off.

theives are also using clever OBD boxes to trick ECUs into unlocking (once the window is smashed that is), and then allowing them entry and to start the car.

if you have keyless entry, it’s even worse. They use Relay boxes to boost the signal from your key, to another relay box by the car... and hey presto, unlock and start and drive away.

Most of us ST owners have aftermarket security of some fashion, whether that’s steering lock, RF Blocker key pouches, large bitey dog, canbus immobilisers or dummy OBD port, or all of the above!

do your research, make informed choices, and any security is better than no security. Even if it’s a £30 steering lock, they may ignore yours in favour of one without one! 

[Shepster48]

Thanks Guys.

Ive taken the plunge and leased the st line. Im going to get the gap insurance for piece of mind, thanks for the link. 

As its keyless start only im not too worried about them getting a signal from my keys as someone stated above it has a very tiny signal strength. I keep them on my bedside table so they wont be able to get a signal or get to them. I also have two dogs who hear everything.

Ive sent for a disklock. So will use that at night. 

My nephew owns a garage so im going to have him move the obd2 to somewhere they cant reach. As its a lease car theres only so much i can do with that. 

Ive also sent for 2 stickers stating the obd2 has been disabled and a tracker has been installed.

Can anyone with a new fiesta confirm if the obd2 is disabled for 10 minutes if the alarm goes off? If i move the obd2 where they cant reach by leaning into the car without setting off the alarm i should be ok. 

[jace1969]

11 hours ago, TDCiST said:

I don’t know about the mk8 fiesta, but there are dead spots in the alarm sensors. And thieves know where to smash windows to avoid setting it off.

theives are also using clever OBD boxes to trick ECUs into unlocking (once the window is smashed that is), and then allowing them entry and to start the car.

if you have keyless entry, it’s even worse. They use Relay boxes to boost the signal from your key, to another relay box by the car... and hey presto, unlock and start and drive away.

Most of us ST owners have aftermarket security of some fashion, whether that’s steering lock, RF Blocker key pouches, large bitey dog, canbus immobilisers or dummy OBD port, or all of the above!

do your research, make informed choices, and any security is better than no security. Even if it’s a £30 steering lock, they may ignore yours in favour of one without one! 

This is true this is why i got a cheap steering lock which he sold loads but true what TDSiST says if if its a cheap one like mine £12 they still might go onto the next car as

it all takes time.

Where is you car parked at night on the road/drive or behind gates etc......you might of said but i have missed it.

[Shepster48]

42 minutes ago, jace1969 said:

This is true this is why i got a cheap steering lock which he sold loads but true what TDSiST says if if its a cheap one like mine £12 they still might go onto the next car as

it all takes time.

Where is you car parked at night on the road/drive or behind gates etc......you might of said but i have missed it.

It will be on my drive but there are no gates hence why i was a little apprehensive about security. The car is right underneath my lounge and bedroom so i will definitely hear the alarm going off. Im pretty sure they will have to set the alarm off to access the obd once its moved from its original place and hidden behind the dashboard. Deadzone or not.

Ive ordered a small disklock as ive read thats the size needed. 

Hopefully those measures will deter a thief and they'll move on.

[Mavroz]

At the end of the day, if a thief or burglar want anything or want to be in anywhere, they will. Deterrents and countermeasures can be put in place but they will always try to get what they want.

 

[Mavroz]

My boss had his company VW Passat stolen from his driveway 3 days before Christmas last year. The thief (ves) actually opened his front door, entered his living room and took his bunch of keys, taking his car in the process. He was upstairs in the shower and no one else was home.

They took the keys but left his wallet, iPad and laptop.

The car was found in the West riding, second week of January by the police. The car was on false plates, only drawing attention to itself as there were three young youths in it, who seemed out of place. The police gave chase to said vehicle, initially lost it but eventually cornered it and arrested all 3 occupants.

They told the police they had been loaned the car for a day by a friend but refused to give any names.

The car had to have quite a few dings and scratches take out, seats had been deliberately cig burned, 2 new alloys, a new front bumper or valance as it was crackef and needed replacing, insurance company wanted new keys and recoding, new map card....

Personal possesions included tools etc, which up to now are still being claimed for??

Probably a good bit more got charged for other works to be carried out. It was a company insurance so the full cost was never revealed other than the excess was £500.

To this day, as far as he is aware, no one has been charged with anything due to lack of evidence apparently. They couldn't even prove which of the 3 were driving the car when arrested.

I never leave keys unattended any longer although as time passes, it is difficult to remember not to leave the keys on doors, worktop etc etc. Fortunately I have a guard Border Collie that is nuts and a cracking guard that alerts you if a mouse farts on the street.

 

[TDCiST]

39 minutes ago, Mavroz said:

At the end of the day, if a thief or burglar want anything or want to be in anywhere, they will. Deterrents and countermeasures can be put in place but they will always try to get what they want.

 

This is true, but if there’s an alternative down the road that’s easier, they may move on.

sounds selfish I know... but it’s the reality. They want a quick steal, so not to be seen/heard.

a vehicle with no additional security can be gone within 20-30 seconds. Even a steering lock or dummy OBD can add a precious minute to this.

theres plenty of CCTV footage online of theives giving up after less than a minute as they realise it’s getting too close for comfort..

[jace1969]

6 hours ago, Shepster48 said:

It will be on my drive but there are no gates hence why i was a little apprehensive about security. The car is right underneath my lounge and bedroom so i will definitely hear the alarm going off. Im pretty sure they will have to set the alarm off to access the obd once its moved from its original place and hidden behind the dashboard. Deadzone or not.

Ive ordered a small disklock as ive read thats the size needed. 

Hopefully those measures will deter a thief and they'll move on.

This is one of the best locks out there but there £100+ for around 2 mins to get off for a top thief but its still 2 mins,i wont pay that hence the cheap one.

Mine is parked in a locked back yard under a car port and also have I.P CCTV but if they want it they will  get it one way,ever thought of CCTV..I.P camera is cheap and records.

If it does happen.......fingers crossed it don't,my opinion i could not drive my car knowing its been stolen and a thief have driven it.

[ElliotReid]

When I get my MK8 Fiesta, looking at September as a birthday present to myself, I'll be doing something with the OBD port (covering/moving/locking not sure what yet) and a Disklok or somesuch. I'm also thinking of having the Autowatch Ghost Immobiliser as I do like the idea of it, I have already memorised a long button combination in case I do get one, as I do like technology. I won't add the optional keyless entry, not fussed about it, but I will be getting the Titanium as I do like the idea of the push button start as I've had them on my motorbikes for a long time.

Of course I'll get gap insurance just in case it does encounter a rather determined scumbag.

[jace1969]

32 minutes ago, ElliotReid said:

When I get my MK8 Fiesta, looking at September as a birthday present to myself, I'll be doing something with the OBD port (covering/moving/locking not sure what yet) and a Disklok or somesuch. I'm also thinking of having the Autowatch Ghost Immobiliser as I do like the idea of it, I have already memorised a long button combination in case I do get one, as I do like technology. I won't add the optional keyless entry, not fussed about it, but I will be getting the Titanium as I do like the idea of the push button start as I've had them on my motorbikes for a long time.

Of course I'll get gap insurance just in case it does encounter a rather determined scumbag.

Why do people mostly go for these Disklok as they are a lot of money and not that secure,i have read reviews and seen videos how long it takes to break of.

Had to ask this.

[Martijn89]

Maybe it's just a bit too safe around here, but you really should not worry about it too much. Like other said, the key will be detected in the car. It's a really tiny signal, so they would need to get the signal from your keys and get in the car. This is a very different story than the keyless entry worries that you see in the news lately, where they can just open the door and start it like it is their own car. I always had the start button on my cars the last 3 cars, and never had any issues or worries. However if they ever do I'm happy with a good insurance, I think that's the better solution with the tiny risk of someone stealing your car this way. Don't worry too much about it and enjoy the new car, good choice!

[Shepster48]

Are st-lines being stolen or is it just ST’s that seem to be targeted? I guess it’s still a £16k car at the end of the day. 

Can someone clarify that removing the fuse for the obd doesn’t affect anything else on the car for day to day running?

i’m undecided if to fit a dummy obd port or just completely relocate it. Won’t a dummy lead them straight to the actual port as it’s attached to the other end? 

Can anyone clarify if the new fiesta’s with perimeter alarm still has a dead zone near the drivers mirror. 

Does anyone who is leasing a car know what alarms are allowed to be fittedif it’s owned by ford leasing?

i would still love to know why the ford spokesman said there’s a 10 minute lockout of the obd port if the alarm goes off. The amount of stolen fiesta’s seems to point to the fact that there isn’t or else they are getting to the oboe port without setting the premier alarm off, which makes that alarm useless. Surely a thatcham 1 system would be more secure. Other than the article in the express I cannot find anywhere else that mentions it.