Engine rattle 3rd gear 2500-3000rpm under hard acceleration Fiesta Mk8 2017 reg 1.0 100ps ecoboost zetec

[DaveTorq]

Hi all,

Just acquired a 2nd hand Fiesta Mk8 2017 reg 1.0 100ps ecoboost zetec. I have noticed two things compared to my mk3.5 125ps focus:

1) the engine on warm idle shakes on the engine mount way more than the focus. Can't be felt or heard in the cabin. However, I was amazed how much movement there was from the enginer. Seems to stop as soon as any revs are applied. Wasn't sure if it was a different set up to the focus due to the cyclinder shutdown tech that the modern ecoboosts have.

2) i noticed a kind of vibrating/rattling that comes in exclusively when under hard acceleration between 2500-3000rpm in 3rd It literally comes in at that range and instantly disappears as soon as you leave that band. I doesnt do it in 2nd gear etc when accelerating hard. Under normal economical driving it doesnt make a sound. If I hold it at 3000rpm there is no noise. It has to be rev'ing through it hard. I've seen US vids of larger Fords that have loose dump valves that rattle but can't see why that would happen exclusively in that gear.

Have I acquired a knackered engine (point1) and screwed turbo (point 2)? It is weird as other than the above I'd say it was a better engine than my focus. Way more urgent and probably quiet from within the cabin anyways.

Welcome any thoughts and/or comparisons from owners of similar model

Cheers,

Dave.

[DaveTorq]

This isn't my engine but it is behaving exactly like it: 

 

[DaveTorq]

Looks like the noise I could hear was the gear stick vibrating so the turbo theory is out. If I keep hold of the gear stick the noise goes away. Now I need to work out why the gear stick is vibrating only in 3rd and at that rev range. 

[nashdm2]

Very strange, that video above sounded like a classic top end of the engine issue.

 

[DaveTorq]

 

Top end issue - you reckon the valve timings out? See you have a MK8 fiesta. What engine are you running? I assume yours doesnt have any of these issues then?

On a cold start it is fine. It is on a warm idle it vibrates like this (e.g. revs drop down). Looked at my Focus engine and it does much the same but doesnt vibrate quite as much as this. The fiesta's air filter box seems to be designed to move around. It isn't bolted down like the Focus. The brackets for the plastic air hose pipe that runs from the grill to the air box even has lots of play in it, which the focus does not. 

I am wondering now if the gearbox vibration means I have a shot out gear box mount. If that's the case the previous owner has been kangarooing this car down the road everyday. It is only a year old.

I noticed in the HIP National Mileage Register checks that it had a mileage recorded in March 2019 (3months after it was bought by the previous owner) by the "manufacturer". Seems to coincide with when Ford recalled certain cars for a brake booster diaphragm check. Can't see why they'd need to mess with the engine bay too much to inspect that.

 

 

[nashdm2]

Hi Dave, mine has yet to be delivered sir, coming in a couple of weeks time. The best clue you have is with the gear stick. I would get somebody looking in the engine bay whilst you hold the gear lever and see it anything is obvious. Perhaps it may need to be up on a ramp to get a look underneath?

[DaveTorq]

It is booked in, as it is driving me nuts like an itch I can't scratch. I just hope I dont end up with new issues!

Looks like I can get it to do it in 1st as well as 3rd under very heavy acceleration and it is much shorter duration as you'd expect as you blast through the rev range.  

If it  was out of warranty and hopefully with a trusty Haynes manual in hand (probably have to wait 2-3 yrs for that) ......Id be underneath there now ripping ripping off the under tray. 

[DaveTorq]

Ps hope enjoy your new motor.

[nashdm2]

If its happening in 1st and 3rd, that could be the gear stick linkage as those gears maybe on the same linkage? 

[DaveTorq]

Im pretty convinced it relates to shifters or the transmission mount. Perhaps a duff injector but I am not convinced.

It is going in this week so we will see what they come up with. 

I cant see it being drive shafts, clutch, turbo. The engine runs fine with no power loss or stutter so Im not convinced it will be timing. 

 

[Jeroel]

Keep us updated then, if you find a solution. I'm from Italy, I have a Vignale Ecoboost 100cv and had the very same issue since November: a vibration starting from the gear shift, 1st (seems to get worse uphill) and 3rd gear. I brought the car to the authorized local workshop but they simply told me to wait, the car is new, see if it get worse etc..

 

[DaveTorq]

Vignale......very nice!

Promise to keep you posted Jeroel. I agree it is worse up hill when the engine is under the most strain i.e. either under hard acceleration or as you say gradient.

[Jeroel]

Thanks. Yeah, a nice little car, though it's still a Fiesta under the skin..  Also,  I noticed Vignale is actually less expensive in Italy than any other country in Europe.

Anyway, mine makes the noise mostly around 1800-2000 RPM.

[DaveTorq]

Right I promised and here it is.......

They've made quite a big improvement (although they claimed they couldn't reproduce the original issue) ........it is still there but much less noticeable. Find when engine is cold I cant reproduce it now but once warmed up if I get it just right I get a muted vibration.

As woolly as the above is the following might prove to be even more so.......

1) They said they couldnt reproduce the problem. But I had a video of it happening which the service manager was shocked by.

2) They saw some heat shielding that was bent out close to the exhaust which they moved back

3) They removed the gear cables at both ends. Greased them and refitted them. They said the cables werent moving as smoothly as they might etc etc.

4) They checked coolant pipes and air hose connectors weren't loose/ damaged. They weren't. Apparently this is a common reason for rattles in fiestas

5) This might be the crucial bit.....they applied a engine management update when they connected it for diagnosis. They said they dont know what was is in. I can't confirm this but I wonder if this has lowered the power output or smoothed the torque curve. Could be the power of suggestion playing on my mind.

I got in another fiesta same engine 2000miles on the clock. Didnt make any noise at all. Gear box seemed more clunky and rubbery than mine. My gear stick has less friction in it. I am convinced something has loosened off in the gear box/stick and that's were the vibration is coming from.

 

[DaveTorq]

Hi Jeroel,

Do let me know how you get on and I hope the above is of some use to you.

If I was you I'd ring Ford Italy (rather than go via dealer franchies) and tell them you are not happy to just wait till your warranty runs out. Turning up to a dealer with an email / letter from Ford will force them into action.

If you get anywhere with this let me know. My plan is to see how long this improvement remains but if I sense any degradation in short term I am going to be asking them to replace parts!

So far I am not impressed with the build quality on the Fiesta. I have a post about a boot leak I've found too. Looks online it seems like Fiestas of old have had various problems. I also understand the mk8 had recalls for brake boost diaphragm issues, passenger seat rail replacements etc.

Cheers,

Dave

Ps dont start on the UK buyers being ripped off on new car prices :-p

[Jeroel]

Thank you for the feedback, I'm also thinking that something has loosening off in the gear box/cables, because in the first 5000km/6 months it didn't make that noise. 

I'm a bit disappointed too about general quality, you can't expect too much buying a Fiesta, but this kind of issue on a brand new car is always a bitter pill to swallow. I also have problems with hill start assist (I find it deactivated without any alert, so I prefer to keep it off, no solution so far...)

[DaveTorq]

I ended up getting a new gear stick assembly that made a massive difference. Still can get it to vibrate but it is much more muted and only happens if I catch it right.

 

I've noticed on all mk8 fiestas even ones with 20miles on clock- there is vibration in the stick under hard acceleration in 3rd and 5th.  However, the St-line I tried had a very tight shift so no vibration at all.

I do think my car has more vibration from the engine than the St-line 100. Can feel it in the seat on a warm idle . I looked in the engine and the mount next to the coolant tank in the St-line and it is more like my focus mk3.5 mount. Much more substantial. Also seen a fiesta ActiveX that had the beefier mount.

I reckon ford have changed this from 2017 to 2019 as they noticed the originals weren't up to spec or they loosened off too quick.

 

Haven't been able to find a zetec 100ps fiesta mk8 2019 plate to check. If anyone has one I'd love a photo of your engine mount.

Love to hear people's thoughts 

 

[DaveTorq]

My mount

New mount looks more like this

[DaveTorq]

Sorry new mount looks more like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2017-FORD-FIESTA-MK8-ENGINE-MOUNT-DRIVERSIDE-H1BG-6F012-BB/283520446588?epid=24026455355&hash=item420322b07c:g:zgoAAOSwNeFdCPNz

 

[Jeroel]

Hi Dave, sorry but the forum didn't notice me about your new posts. In the meantime I went to the dealer and leaved the car for two days, but they didn't solve the issue. They just tried to solve another issue (there is a Ford bulletin about that) , one I already knew of (we discussed it here). I said "tried" because I already solved it by myself with some plastic ties but, before leaving the car to them, I cutted them to avoid warranty troubles etc.. In the end, my solution was better, so I re-applied the ties and lost a bit of confidence in them...the only good thing they made was an Ecu update. I also went for a slow coolant drop (from max to min in 10k km, about 6200 miles) but they say it's normal for this engine...

Anyway, you mentioned a "new gear stick assembly", do you mean the dealer replaced it?

About the engine mounts, well, I suppose I can live with that, vibrations in the cabin aren't so bad, except maybe for the first half minute with cold engine....  I forgot it's always better to wait at least a couple of years before buying a "new" model, so that most of the earlier issues are fixed....otherwise you can get mad trying to solve them!

[Trivster]

I have a 2019 Fiesta Active X that has been in to the main dealer 4 times in attempt to fix this rattle in 3rd gear (does it in 1st and 5th under acceleration) so it has something to do with when the gear stick is in the forward position.  Infuriating really.  Ford build quality is crap. Still rattles now.

[TheKnof]

OK, so just to inform you guys, if you don't already know by now. This a common and benign issue, which is caused by a weight mounted to the shifting mechanism to make it feel more premium. This weight slowly moves the shifter cables so they rest on the gearbox when some gears are selected (the forward ones), making a really clear and annoying vibration sound in the cabin. 

I got mine exchanged for a lighter weighted one which should prevent the problem. Does not feel as nice to shift anymore though. 

Now I just hope I can find out why mine says klonk when I release the clutch in 3rd :/

[TheKnof]

OK, so just to inform you guys, if you don't already know by now. This a common and benign issue, which is caused by a weight mounted to the shifting mechanism to make it feel more premium. This weight slowly moves the shifter cables so they rest on the gearbox when some gears are selected (the forward ones), making a really clear and annoying vibration sound in the cabin. 

I got mine exchanged for a lighter weighted one which should prevent the problem. Does not feel as nice to shift anymore though. 

Now I just hope I can find out why mine says klonk when I release the clutch in 3rd :/

[HRF1T2020]

Mine does this also 1st Gear and 3rd only under harder accelleration 3,800 on clock 18plate zetec been doing it a while but not got round to booking it in so going to book it in with Ford before warranty runs out in March,

I'm already having it in soon to replace an A Pillar cover that's not attached properly and came apart 

[HRF1T2020]

Typically after booking it in for the A pillar cover replacement and brief gear rattle in 1&3 it seems yo have stopped doing it

In mind to cancel them checking it as don't want it to come back worse than it was 

Dilemmas