MK3 Engine Mounts

[reilig]

Do any of you guys have experience of engine mounts?

My car began to knock a little during gear changes back a few weeks ago - especially in 1st to 3rd. It gradually got worse over a period of 2 weeks. My mechanic diagnosed a dogbone mount worn out and he replaced it. 

However, since then, I have been experiencing small issues with knocking or clunking when I change from 2nd up to 3rd or down from 3rd to 2nd mainly. 

When the car is cold, if I take off in 1st, with no acceleration, it feels like the engine is wobbling. The car sort of stutters and you can feel the engine wobble. 

This morning as I reversed out of my driveway, I braked fast, and I'm very sure that the engine clunked with the fast stop - I had my foot on the clutch - so i don't think it could have been in the transmission. 

My mechanic is a good mechanic - very knowledgeable about Fords. But he tells me that he has never had to replace a mount in a focus other than the dogbone mount. (This means that he has never witnessed one that has shown symptoms of needing to be replaced). 

When I accelerate in 2nd or 3rd, I can feel the engine move within the engine bay, very slight movement, but it's still forward and back movement. My mechanic has checked the mounts by holding brakes and accelerating simultaneously in order to simulate normal engine movement by driving - he says that the amount that it moves is normal. 

He says that the 2 engine mounts in the upper engine bay are just suspended - they don't control the the forward and back movement of the engine. The dogbone mount is a genuine ford one and its only in it a few weeks.

What i'm wondering is, do you know ford focus engine mounts? Could wear in the top 2 mounts be causing, what feels like, excess movement in my engine as I accelerate?? Could the clunk or knock when I change gear be cause by a damaged or worn out upper engine mount? 

My mechanic has not had time to put a lot of time into it to check it over (its not tat bad, it's driveable, but its annoying and I'm afraid that it might damage something else).

He has checked the exhaust bracket and it is ok. 

He has suggested that maybe the knock could be in the gearbox. He will look into it more when he services it in the next week or 2. 

 

Anyone got any ideas?? 

[mastachaz]

its your engine mount leaking oil ?

[reilig]

15 hours ago, mastachaz said:

its your engine mount leaking oil ?

No. 

[JW1982]

The MK3 engine/gearbox mounts are known to be pretty bad quality. A lot of people suffered from worn engine/gearbox mounts.

On my 2013  1.0 ECOboost I had to replace all engine/gearbox mounts recently. My car has done less than 22000 Miles. All engine/gearbox mounts had became very soft/weak but did not have any visual damage. The worn engine/gearbox mounts resulted in excessive engine vibrations at idle speed and excessive engine movement. After I replaced all engine/gearbox mounts these symptoms were completely gone.

Note that the Original Focus MK3 engine/gearbox mounts are produced by Lemforder. The aftermarket Lemforder engine/gearbox mounts are identical to the genuine Ford ones but way cheaper. The only diference between the aftermarket Lemforder engine/gearbox mounts and the genuine Ford engine/gearbox mounts is that on the aftermarket Lemforder mounts the Ford logo's are removed (the logo's are sanded/grinded out).

[FatHead1979]

Over the years there have also been a few posts on here from drivers of aging MK2 TDCi Focus with similar symptoms (including myself).

 

In my case it was the expensive top mount i.e. the one with the fluid filled "bladder" that was at fault, it hadn;t yet brust but it had a massive "egg" shaped bulge in the top of the bladder.  Replacing it made a massive difference in terms of the vibration under load and the sensation of the engine moving back and forth.

[bronc]

How difficult are these to DIY? The top mount in mine looks fine - no bulge, no liquid leaking but there are quite a lot of vibrations so maybe some of the other mounts have failed..

[Ennvoqation]

Depending on the mount it can fairly easy to moderately difficult if you don't have the equipment/space. There's a number of videos on YouTube covering different models of Focus and years. I had to do it on my old Mk 2 Focus when the rear engine mount gave way making the car shake more than a washing machine. 

You can also get higher quality mounts which use a different plastic which last longer, but the names escape me at the mo and if you get the sports mounts tend to make the car handle differently.

[reilig]

On 6/26/2019 at 4:39 PM, JW1982 said:

The MK3 engine/gearbox mounts are known to be pretty bad quality. A lot of people suffered from worn engine/gearbox mounts.

On my 2013  1.0 ECOboost I had to replace all engine/gearbox mounts recently. My car has done less than 22000 Miles. All engine/gearbox mounts had became very soft/weak but did not have any visual damage. The worn engine/gearbox mounts resulted in excessive engine vibrations at idle speed and excessive engine movement. After I replaced all engine/gearbox mounts these symptoms were completely gone.

Note that the Original Focus MK3 engine/gearbox mounts are produced by Lemforder. The aftermarket Lemforder engine/gearbox mounts are identical to the genuine Ford ones but way cheaper. The only diference between the aftermarket Lemforder engine/gearbox mounts and the genuine Ford engine/gearbox mounts is that on the aftermarket Lemforder mounts the Ford logo's are removed (the logo's are sanded/grinded out).

 

Thanks for your reply. I have had mine back at my mechanic this week. For 2 days, there was a vibration from the front left side. It seemed to vibrate the while car. The day that I brought it to him, it stopped and hasn't vibrated since. He checked all suspension and shocks and all are good. He drove it quite a bit and was able to find the knock between gear changes. He put it over a pit and we simulated engine movement by alternating the brake and clutch, but he still could not see any excess engine movement. We compared it to his own focus - and his car engine moves the exact same amount. 

I'm still thinking that the knock is being caused by the top engine mount over the gearbox. I suspect that the vibration noise that the car made last week was metal on metal caused by this mount being worn and it may have shifted again to reinsulate it/sit on the rubber which has stopped the vibration for now. My mechanic wants to take some time to look at it again - he's not charging me, so I don't mind, but I think the best way forward is for me to eliminate the 2 top mounts being faulty is to replace both of them. 

We have been trying to simulate engine movement by breaking and accelerating. I wonder how realistic this actually is? Is it likely that there is much more movement when the engine is under the load of driving than we can actually simulate? My mechanic has tried moving it with a pry bar and it's solid, but I suspect that it would only take a very small amount of movement for me to feel it clunk in a gear change. 

[FatHead1979]

17 hours ago, reilig said:

 

Thanks for your reply. I have had mine back at my mechanic this week. For 2 days, there was a vibration from the front left side. It seemed to vibrate the while car. The day that I brought it to him, it stopped and hasn't vibrated since. He checked all suspension and shocks and all are good. He drove it quite a bit and was able to find the knock between gear changes. He put it over a pit and we simulated engine movement by alternating the brake and clutch, but he still could not see any excess engine movement. We compared it to his own focus - and his car engine moves the exact same amount. 

I'm still thinking that the knock is being caused by the top engine mount over the gearbox. I suspect that the vibration noise that the car made last week was metal on metal caused by this mount being worn and it may have shifted again to reinsulate it/sit on the rubber which has stopped the vibration for now. My mechanic wants to take some time to look at it again - he's not charging me, so I don't mind, but I think the best way forward is for me to eliminate the 2 top mounts being faulty is to replace both of them. 

We have been trying to simulate engine movement by breaking and accelerating. I wonder how realistic this actually is? Is it likely that there is much more movement when the engine is under the load of driving than we can actually simulate? My mechanic has tried moving it with a pry bar and it's solid, but I suspect that it would only take a very small amount of movement for me to feel it clunk in a gear change. 

The difficulty varies depending on the engine and what tools you have i.e. ramps to get the front end lifted up if it's the bottom (dog leg) mount.  When the dog leg mount failed on my 1.8 TDCi I had massive vibration under load, it was just a few bolts to remove but on my engine there's also a big cast iron reinforcement bracket in the way and that required a bit of "persuasion" to remove.

 

I've got a Haynes manual for the MK2 TDCIs so if there's any specfic jobs you want the details for just let me know and I'll send you the appropriate pages.

[reilig]

On 7/4/2019 at 7:22 AM, 1979Damian said:

The difficulty varies depending on the engine and what tools you have i.e. ramps to get the front end lifted up if it's the bottom (dog leg) mount.  When the dog leg mount failed on my 1.8 TDCi I had massive vibration under load, it was just a few bolts to remove but on my engine there's also a big cast iron reinforcement bracket in the way and that required a bit of "persuasion" to remove.

 

I've got a Haynes manual for the MK2 TDCIs so if there's any specfic jobs you want the details for just let me know and I'll send you the appropriate pages.

My mechanic has a lift. But it's impossible to simulate engine movement when it is up on it because you can't get the engine under load. He also has an old pit which he has not used in a long time, but we will take the covers off it in the next week or 2 and drive the car over it  and go beneath to see what engine movement is like when the full weight is on the wheels. 

The dog bone mount has recently been replaced with a huge improvement but there continues to be a knock during gear changes 1st, second and third. This is what leads me to believe that driving it with the dog bone mount gone for a few days may had strained the other mounts. 

[reilig]

Ok, so we put it up over the pit and moved and pried it, but still couldn't see anything move - it was impossible to recreate the engine movements without being out on the road and shifting up and down gear. But I'm convinced more than ever that the problem is with the engine mount.  So now it's down to elimination. My car is gone in this afternoon to have a new engine mount over the gearbox installed. The one on the right still has the oil in it, so I'm assuming that it should still be ok. Interesting drive home this evening to see if it makes any difference. If it doesn't, then I will just have to drive on until whatever is worn becomes more worn and is easier to identify,.

 

 

[JW1982]

The fact that the oil filled top engine mount does not leak does not necessarily mean that the engine mount is not worn. My experience is that these engine mounts wear pretty fast without showing any visual defects.

At a mileage of less than 22.000 Miles the oil filled top engine mount of my 1.0 ECOboost did not show any visual defects but it turned out to be pretty worn. The engine mount had became too soft which resulted in excessive engine movement and vibrations. After I replaced the engine mount I discovered that the engine sits approximately 10 mm higher with the new mount. After removal the old engine mount returned to its original position and does not show any visual wear or defects.

 

[Jadem26]

On 6/25/2019 at 4:01 PM, reilig said:

Do any of you guys have experience of engine mounts?

My car began to knock a little during gear changes back a few weeks ago - especially in 1st to 3rd. It gradually got worse over a period of 2 weeks. My mechanic diagnosed a dogbone mount worn out and he replaced it. 

However, since then, I have been experiencing small issues with knocking or clunking when I change from 2nd up to 3rd or down from 3rd to 2nd mainly. 

When the car is cold, if I take off in 1st, with no acceleration, it feels like the engine is wobbling. The car sort of stutters and you can feel the engine wobble. 

This morning as I reversed out of my driveway, I braked fast, and I'm very sure that the engine clunked with the fast stop - I had my foot on the clutch - so i don't think it could have been in the transmission. 

My mechanic is a good mechanic - very knowledgeable about Fords. But he tells me that he has never had to replace a mount in a focus other than the dogbone mount. (This means that he has never witnessed one that has shown symptoms of needing to be replaced). 

When I accelerate in 2nd or 3rd, I can feel the engine move within the engine bay, very slight movement, but it's still forward and back movement. My mechanic has checked the mounts by holding brakes and accelerating simultaneously in order to simulate normal engine movement by driving - he says that the amount that it moves is normal. 

He says that the 2 engine mounts in the upper engine bay are just suspended - they don't control the the forward and back movement of the engine. The dogbone mount is a genuine ford one and its only in it a few weeks.

What i'm wondering is, do you know ford focus engine mounts? Could wear in the top 2 mounts be causing, what feels like, excess movement in my engine as I accelerate?? Could the clunk or knock when I change gear be cause by a damaged or worn out upper engine mount? 

My mechanic has not had time to put a lot of time into it to check it over (its not tat bad, it's driveable, but its annoying and I'm afraid that it might damage something else).

He has checked the exhaust bracket and it is ok. 

He has suggested that maybe the knock could be in the gearbox. He will look into it more when he services it in the next week or 2. 

 

Anyone got any ideas?? 

I have exactly the same problem in my Mk2 focus 1.8tdci, and I'm changing the gearbox engine mount tomorrow. Bought on amazon for 67.00 euro.

[Jadem26]

Can anyone tell me the best engine mount make to get as have got a Febi Bilstein from amazon for 67.00 euro but don't know what kind of quality it is?

[reilig]

At last I can see the end point on this. All 3 mounts have now been replaced on my car. The dogbone mount first, followed by the upper 2 last week. It didn't make a blind bit of difference. I did a lot of research on it over the last week or 2. I started to look at symptoms and they all pointed to the dogbone mount - but it was replaced only a few weeks ago with a genuine one from ford. So on monday evening, I raised up the car on blocks, removed the engine tray and took off the dogbone mount. I found that I could move the rubber in it with my finger. I brought it back to ford and they will replace it. It could take 3 days for them to get it in stock. I had to put it back on my car last night because I needed to drive it today. I got an old bicycle tube, cut it into pieces and folded it up and stuffed it between the gaps in the rubber mount. My car is driving 100% with it.  I have also ordered a powerflex insert for the new mount which will give it additional suport. It has been a long journey this last few months to try to get an answer to the knocking and vibration. I have visited 2 different garages a number of times. I'm glad to see light at the end of the tunnel. 

[Jadem26]

My mechanic changed the lower engine mount also a few weeks ago on my mk2 focus 1.8tdci, I have also since changed both top mounts and have still the same problem, it is wrecking my head. Taking it to another mechanic to get a second opinion at the weekend. It seems to be worse when going slow over bumpy surfaces, but the clunk is bad when I bring my foot off the clutch in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear.😥

[reilig]

15 hours ago, Jadem26 said:

My mechanic changed the lower engine mount also a few weeks ago on my mk2 focus 1.8tdci, I have also since changed both top mounts and have still the same problem, it is wrecking my head. Taking it to another mechanic to get a second opinion at the weekend. It seems to be worse when going slow over bumpy surfaces, but the clunk is bad when I bring my foot off the clutch in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear.😥

It could be droplinks or wishbone bushings. In mine, I can hear the clunk between gear changes or if I decelerate suddenly when doing a high speed. it is especially noticable in lower gears - but when you say bumpy surfaces, it makes me think that it could be more to do with the suspension than the engine mount. Ford suspension parts are relatively cheap and easy to replace. I had a renault before this and it was very expensive repairs compared to the focus. 

[reilig]

Another step closer to the end result. I think I have it in sight.

Bottom mount replaced and the car is so much better to drive. It's 80%. There's still 20% to fix.

While replacing the mount, I noticed that there's play or movement in the bushing in the bracket which connects from the engine to the dogbone mount. It's freely allowing movement when I move the engine with my hand. 

It looks like the rubber has been corroded - there's oil weeping from the gearbox seal right down onto it which may have caused this. I'm getting the gearbox seal replaced today. I'm going to the breakers to see if I can get a used bracket with a good bushing in it. 

 

[Matt92]

Interesting, my car has a horrible change from first to second, better from second to third and then fine after that. I need to get under it sometime and see if my lower mount is in need of changing, I love the car, but it’s not easy to drive as it is. 

I did a 500 mile trip the other weekend, all in one day and that seemed to really highlight the issue, just the vibration from the engine starting seemed to cause some rattles and bangs. It’s the one thing that I really want to sort out now.

[reilig]

On 8/12/2019 at 11:42 PM, Matt92 said:

Interesting, my car has a horrible change from first to second, better from second to third and then fine after that. I need to get under it sometime and see if my lower mount is in need of changing, I love the car, but it’s not easy to drive as it is. 

I did a 500 mile trip the other weekend, all in one day and that seemed to really highlight the issue, just the vibration from the engine starting seemed to cause some rattles and bangs. It’s the one thing that I really want to sort out now.

 

See the picture in my post above. There is a little metal tube surrounded by rubber. The rubber in the one that I have has been pushed out and this allows the metal tube to move at high torque such as when changing from second to third gear. I think this is what makes the knock. It only allows a very slight movement - maybe no more than 5mm, but I think this transfers to what feels like a bigger movement. My used one (with an undamaged rubber) is arriving by courier today. I'll let you know how it goes!

[Matt92]

Thanks, I think there’s a power flex poly bush available, but that might cause other issues. I’m also looking at the pumaspeed sway mount as well.

[reilig]

On 8/15/2019 at 11:35 AM, Matt92 said:

Thanks, I think there’s a power flex poly bush available, but that might cause other issues. I’m also looking at the pumaspeed sway mount as well.

I tried a powerflex bush in my dogbone mount and it caused nothing but heavy vibration. I wasn't happy with it at all. 

[reilig]

Things have gotten worse for me in the last 7 days. Maybe that's what needed to happen in order for to identify the problem. 

I definitely have the most solid 2012 focus engine in the country. All new mounts and a new dogbone mount holder. There isn't a rattle or a vibration from it. But I have a problem which has gotten worse. 

1. A knock in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear as I change gear. . This week, I have a knock going over bumps - hell, it doesn't  even take a bump. The car makes a lot of noise just going over a gravel type road. 

2. The car feels jerky in first gear - like rubber moving. It also feels jerky when I decelerate. Gear changes have become a little notchy too. 

I believe that all of this movement is coming from something worn in the suspension. Most likely a wishbone mount, but also perhaps worn drop links or even worn mounts on the anti roll bar. It is going up on the lift this evening for a full check out. It has been on the lift a few times in the last few months and all of these things have been checked, but maybe this time, it has worn enough to be visible. I'm hoping it's something simple enough. 

[reilig]

I would be really grateful if you could suggest to me what else it could be?

Last week, just before I went to my mechanic, my car suddenly stopped knocking and drove 100%. It drove perfect until last night again when I hit a small bump and all of the above symptoms are in it again. My mechanic was very thorough last week. He put it on the lift and he checked:

Wheel bearings

Shocks

Wishbone bushings and ball joints.

Droplinks

Steering components

Driveshaft carrier bearing, Cv joints 

Engine mounts (All 3 are new in the last month).

Exhaust brackets.

 

Then he put it over his pit to test it with weight on it. 

The only thing that he could find was a very slight movement in the passenger side wishbone bushing. It's extremely slight and could in no way cause the knock that has re-appeared. 

 

 

As I said, the knock is back big time since last night. What else is in the suspension that could cause a knock? Are there bushings in the sway bar and what are the symptoms?

Is there anything else that we should be looking at?

[reilig]

7 weeks on again and I'd like to think that this time it's sorted. The car got much worse 2 weeks ago. You could be driving slow in town and when you would accelerate, you would feel the whole front suspension move back towards you and there was a noise in the left side as you crossed bumps. Trial and error at this stage so I bought a full wishbone for the left side. £60 to ease my mind about it falling apart. My mechanic fitted it a week ago and it was perfect for 10 miles. The movement started again and I could feel a wobble in the right side of the suspension at speeds over 50mph. I swore that this would be the last money that I would spend on it as I spent another £60 for the RHS wishbone. Mechanic fitted it first thing this morning, checked droplinks, sway bar bushings, wheel bearings, shocks and shock mounts. He is as frustrated as me with it. He drove it for an hour around town and it appears ok to him (Maybe getting close to needing shocks, but what can you expect from a car with 120k miles). Spent the rest of the morning driving it myself. It seems so much better. There is no movement in the suspension or the engine bay. Gears are so much easier to select. There is no clunk as you accelerate and decelerate. 

We have gone through the old wishbones and cannot find wear in them. The big bushing on both is perfect. The smaller bushing is tight. The ball joint shows no excessive movement. But the car drives like it should with the 2 new wishbones. Lets hope it stays that way.