TPMS not detected

[markcoley]

I have a 64-reg Focus and bought four new tyres at Kwik Fit two weeks ago. I paid for new valves/valve stems (according to website) but the valve stems weren't replaced (but were leaking around the edge) so I went back and they've now been changed and no longer leak. One of the TPMS sensors flew off as the tyre was removed and broke and they put in a new Ford one they happened to have. Now when driving anything over 8 miles the computer says pressure sensors haven't been found. I can reset this via the menu, but it comes back 7-8 miles later. I spoke to the Kwik Fit that changed the TPMS sensor that they broke and he didn't instigate any retraining he said. I've seen on the web you can press the brake/cycle power/press brake/cycle power etc to enter learning mode, and I can do this, and I get the horn beep and screen message to say to retrain the front left tyre. I tried letting the air out of the front left tyre last night but the horn didn't beep at all, so I don't know if this mechanism doesn't work or the front left tyre sensor is broken. The new sensor is on rear left tyre. The man at Kwik Fit said you only need to retrain if you fit non-Ford pressure sensors. I'll take it back to Kwik Fit next week when I can get in but I'm curious as to whether it will just be a retraining issue or whether one of the 4 (3 old and 1 new) sensors got broken when the valve stems were changed.

[markcoley]

Managed to get to KwikFit just before they shut. Mechanic unaware of training mode. Thought he'd have to use hand held detector to read sensor then plug unit into car computer to update it. No time to do this before they shut. I asked if he could try reading sensors whilst I put car in train mode. I said horn should beep if sensor working. I did power/pedal cycling combination then when horn beeped and screen said to do front left tyre I asked him to press the button to read front left sensor. The horn beeped and the man jumped! We did the two wheels on the other side, they all beeped. Then we did rear left tyre, with the new sensor in, and it didn't beep, nor show up on hand held sensor reading unit. I suspect the sensor they'd installed that they found lying around was actually already broken. Or perhaps for a different Ford model. I'll have to get them to order a new one tomorrow. The mechanic had never seen this technique.

[iantt]

Just shows how poorly trained they are even though they have the equipment. I bought a learning tool off eBay £6.65 and works a treat. 

[Botus]

the ford ones look just like an ordinary valve stem from the outside so the tyre fitters don't realise and take care, so end up breaking them as they take the tyre off... then they leave the smashed one dangling.... so the next person "must be the one that broke it" and you'll be charged for a new one

only good news is they are 39 quid not the 140 BMW charge

[iantt]

less than £20 for genuine ford valve and sensor combo advertised on eBay. 

[Westville]

On 6/27/2019 at 8:32 PM, iantt said:

less than £20 for genuine ford valve and sensor combo advertised on eBay. 

@iantt I am putting together a set of winter wheels and want to fit TPMS sensors do you happen to know what frequency they should be for the Ford Edge system? While I am on do you have a link for the correct eBay ones?

Thanks

[iantt]

Ford uses the tpms with 433mhz , got part numbers somewhere,are your current wheel sensors with metal valves or rubber valves? 

[Botus]

tyre pressure sensor's of this type have a bluetooth radio inside them...  a stock OEM sensor has to have its unique code written to the cars ECU

aftermarket sensors can be programmed to replicate the ones already fitted

I'd be surprised if the car can work it out itself.  and complicating things it seems plenty of cars leave enabled the reset procedure of the cheaper ABS (indirect TPMS) system and the owner spends a few weeks letting tyre fitters off the hook trying to reset something not fitted to their car  

[Westville]

2 hours ago, iantt said:

Ford uses the tpms with 433mhz , got part numbers somewhere,are your current wheel sensors with metal valves or rubber valves? 

Thanks for that info mine have the rubber valves

I found a ref for part number 2036804 would that be the one?

1 hour ago, Botus said:

tyre pressure sensor's of this type have a Bluetooth radio inside them...  a stock OEM sensor has to have its unique code written to the cars ECU

aftermarket sensors can be programmed to replicate the ones already fitted

I'd be surprised if the car can work it out itself.  and complicating things it seems plenty of cars leave enabled the reset procedure of the cheaper ABS (indirect TPMS) system and the owner spends a few weeks letting tyre fitters off the hook trying to reset something not fitted to their car  

Sorry mate but you have completely lost me 

[iantt]

Yeah that's the part number for all other Fords I've come across, I assume the edge is the same. I can check for definite on Monday if you want? 

[Westville]

9 hours ago, iantt said:

Yeah that's the part number for all other Fords I've come across, I assume the edge is the same. I can check for definite on Monday if you want? 

If you would that would be great - only going to do it once so want to get it right 

[Botus]

12 hours ago, Westville said:

      13 hours ago, Botus said:

tyre pressure sensor's of this type have a Bluetooth radio inside them...  a stock OEM sensor has to have its unique code written to the cars ECU

aftermarket sensors can be programmed to replicate the ones already fitted

I'd be surprised if the car can work it out itself.  and complicating things it seems plenty of cars leave enabled the reset procedure of the cheaper ABS (indirect TPMS) system and the owner spends a few weeks letting tyre fitters off the hook trying to reset something not fitted to their car  

Sorry mate but you have completely lost me 

the way I read a post above suggested the car can code itself to accept a new Bluetooth  TPMS sensor.   I have never heard of this (and whilst possible) I don't think it will

there are two systems after it was mandated all new cars post 2015 must have a way to inform the user the tyre is low on pressure...

Peugeot were one of the first to use the bluetooth real TPMS idea.  They transmit info about both the temperature and the pressure inside each tyre.  these days the industry refers to this set up as Direct TPMS.  The batteries inside each sensor last about 9 to 12 years and as designed are "non" replaceable.  But on some you can open them up swap it over and use hotmelt glue to fix.  On a BMW the sensors are around £130 plus vat each, plus fitting inside the tyre and coding the vehicle for the unique bluetooth code it has.  They are unique so that you can read its sensor and not those of the car in a traffic jam beside you .  Some allow you to reset the "reference" pressure before they nag you (mainly for use with winter tyres where you might choose a low pressure as std vs a high speed summer tyre set up.. 

The Temp bit few know about, is so that the display compensates for changes in the tyre temperature and gives a false reading to the driver so he thinks its all good.  From -10C to 50C the pressure might really vary 6 to 8 PSI or so.  I guess it possible nasty ones with no actual display for the individual read out omit the temp offset element making a cheap sensor ?

Then you get indirect TPMS which is a nasty bodge up based on info from the ABS wheel sensor.  VAG love this idea.  These do need a rest feature for differences in the circumference of different brand tyres and or state of wear on an individual wheel.

I turn on the tyre temp bit on my bike so I have something else to watch on long trips and or additional safety if going for it (on the pictures left is the front, right is the rear)

[Westville]

Aha I'm with you now - it seems that the TPMS on my car (according to the handbook) DOES learn:

Quote

When Changing Wheels

When changing the wheels of your vehicle, the tire pressure monitoring system needs to re-learn the tire pressure sensors. To achieve this perform the following:

1. Make sure all tires are inflated to the proper pressure. If not, inflate the tires to the correct pressure.   See  Technical Specifications. 

1. Park your vehicle for at least 20 minutes.

1. Carry out the tire pressure monitoring system reset procedure. See Tire Pressure Monitoring System Reset Procedure later in this section.

1. The tire pressure monitoring system will automatically re-learn the tire pressure sensors the next time you drive your vehicle for approximately 15 minutes above 25 mph (40 km/h).

Quote

Carrying Out the System Reset Procedure

Switch the ignition on. Using the information display control select:

 

Message	Description and Action
Settings	Press the OK button.
Driver assist	Press the OK button.
Tire Monitor	Press and hold the OK button until confirmation appears. Alternatively, if your vehicle has a tire pressure monitoring system reset button, press and hold the button until confirmation appears.

 

[kellogs]

Hello,

I have bought these sensors for my Ford Focus 4 (initially bought from the continent), fitted and driven around for a few days with the exclamation mark on the dashboard.

The thing is I can't find a physical TPMS reset button or the "Tire Monitor" or similar option through the computer menu screens (as @Westville and many other places around the internet suggest). Another procedure I have attempted is the brake pedal - 3 times on-off cycling of the ignition - brake pedal - 3 more on-off ignition key cycles; the car does beep and says "train front left tyre"; deflated all of the tyres to the rim - no extra beeps happened, nothing has changed on the display.

Are my sensors incompatible ? Can anyone share the location of that physical TPMS reset button ?

Thanks a lot!

[Stoney871]

They have advertised those sensors for a mk4 but quoted years 2018-2019 so more likely for a mk 3.5.
I'd say there's a high probability that they aren't the correct ones.
The ones for the mk4 are designed to track actual tyre pressures on individual wheels whereas the ones for mk3 / 3.5 were only ever designed to warn of a deflation or drop below a learned pressure but wouldn't point to any specific wheel.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Stoney871]

Another thing that points to them being incorrect is that the mk 3.5 valves are metal whereas the mk4 ones are rubber.

Mk 3.5-


Mk 4-


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[kellogs]

Aw, what a pity....

Ok, guess i'll have to return them and buy some proper sensors. What about the proper learning procedure for this car, which one is it ? I still don't have anything "Tyre monitor" in my menus...

[iantt]

The proper sensors are probably the same price, if not cheaper. Make sure you buy the correct OEM ones, both MK3.5 and mk 4 OEM look the same. MK3.5 and earlier fiesta, b max c max Mondeo ones have a square marking on the sensor. The MK4 has the triangle mark as per Clive's photo. 

[kellogs]

Hi,

Thank you for the input, much appreciated!

As I am not all that sure about this car I resorted to looking up its VIN online. Most of the decoders spat back "invalid VIN" to me but two of them correctly identified its colour, fuel type and manufacture date. And they both said this is the 2014+ model... So I guess it is an MK3.5 then ?

[focustitanium12]

On 3/19/2020 at 2:39 PM, Stoney871 said:

Another thing that points to them being incorrect is that the mk 3.5 valves are metal whereas the mk4 ones are rubber.

Mk 3.5-


Mk 4-


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

 

On 3/19/2020 at 7:01 PM, iantt said:

The proper sensors are probably the same price, if not cheaper. Make sure you buy the correct OEM ones, both MK3.5 and mk 4 OEM look the same. MK3.5 and earlier fiesta, b max c max Mondeo ones have a square marking on the sensor. The MK4 has the triangle mark as per Clive's photo. 

Dont suppose you have the part number for the MK4 TPMS as need to get hold of some for a set of winter wheels I am sorting out for the end of this year. I cant seem to find any info about them.

[Rickychips]

I need to replace a sensor the number on my sensor is EV6T-1A180-CC

The replacement sensor I'm looking at the last 2 letters is different its EV6T-1A180-DC will this be ok?

[Bamford]

Hi, Ford Focus 2015 titanium. The right rear tyre pressure sensor has consistently thrown up an error of low tyre pressure after driving over a pot hole. I have had the sensor replaced but it still won’t work, used. TPMS tool to try and get it working, done the relearn but when we get to that one it does do anything.

any help appreciated 

[Botus]

if it has real TPMS sensors u should see info on battery life and pressure in vehicle diagnostics... 

when confident you have real sensors, if you don't have the kit swap the offending tyre to another location and put a known working one on the right rear if the fault moves to the new location then the sensors is your issue...  if the fault remains its the bt pick up in that wheel arch

DID ANYONE CODE THE NEW SENSOR TO THE CAR ?????  they don't do it themselves on any car or bike I worked on