Virgin Media Multiroom Cisco 8685 HDD upgrade to SSHD Solid State HardDrive

[Lenny]

Hi,

I have this Cisco 8685 HD viewing box which Virgin Media Ireland use for a multiroom box. 

I have three of these units in total;

Apart from the unit being the size of a DVD player from the mid 90's

The other issue i have with it is; the noise of the 3.5" hard drive rotating as this viewing box is fitted in the bedroom.

Overall: I'm looking to upgrade the hard drive in my Cisco branded Virgin Media multiroom box to a solid state hard drive;

I'd like some advice on what's the best like for like option while eliminating the noise of the massive 3.5" HDD as theres no information on doing this process to a VM Cisco box anywhere else online 🤷‍♂️

Here it is positioned next to the old 2.5" hard drive from the Playstation 4 its massive in comparison.

According to Google heres the spec of the existing unit

Hard drive
Bytes per sector	512
Start/stop cycles	50000
Drive device, buffer size	8 MB
Hard drive size	3.5 "
Hard drive speed	5900 RPM
Hard drive interface	Serial ATA II
Hard drive capacity	320 GB
Device type	HDD
Operational conditions
Non-operating shock	350 G
Operating shock	70 G
Non-operating altitude	-304.8 - 12192 m
Operating altitude	-304.8 - 3048 m
Storage relative humidity (H-H)	5 - 95 %
Operating relative humidity (H-H)	5 - 90 %
Storage temperature (T-T)	-40 - 70 °C
Operating temperature (T-T)	0 - 75 °C
Other features
Sustained data rate	120 MB/s
Power
Start-up current	2 A
Power consumption (standby)	0.6 W
Weight & dimensions
Weight	415 g
Depth	147 mm
Height	20.2 mm
Width	101.8 mm

 

Possibly go for a 500Gb Solid State to replace the 320Gb but which one is best, somthing from Samsung perhaps?  

I understand I will then need to use a computer to mirror the firmware from the existing drive to the new solid state.

Thanks for reading and I appreciate you taking time to respond.

 

[Stoney871]

Sandisk or Kingston SSD are pretty good.
The 2.5 are better priced than 3.5 although you'd need a cradle to fit it firmly.
I think the 3.5 pricing is mainly due to being mostly hybrid drives and would still produce noise.
SSD are good due to far less heat (no moving parts) but bear in mind that they have a finite read / write cycle.
I swapped out a drive on a Sky HD box about 5 years back for a larger one and found software online that worked smoothly, I just had to buy a hot swap twin bay external SATA cradle to write from the old drive to the new one.
It worked great until I upgraded to SKY Q.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Stoney871]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F263565502473

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[Lenny]

23 minutes ago, Stoney871 said:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F263565502473

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

Thanks mate that docking pod looks like a good bit of kit, I have a usb cable adaptor and SATA power supply but that only operates one external drive,

The item you have linked there is much better where I can operate both hard drives simultaneously, 

I've tried searching online for information or a guide on upgrading the Cisco hard drive to SSD but theres no information and the cisco box seems to be a sort of universal viewing box or module which virgin media have put there version of software on for use as there viewing box's which I hope doesn't cause me issues when putting firmware on to the replacement drive as there isint much info out there for doing it and could be top secret 😅

I don't see why virgin media didnt just use the TiVo boxes in Ireland the same as the uk.

But the living room box is a Samsung SMT-G7401/XEN it doesn't have a solid state hard drive neither, it has a thermostatic cooling fan but still gets quite hot.

Nice little remote although voice control has already replaced keyboard ☺️

Thanks for the info and link mate, also hops your holiday up in Scotland went well; could really do with a holiday myself but ain't happening anytime soon im felling like the wichitaw lineman 😅

[Stoney871]

Aye, holiday is good.
Been pretty hot up here this week but normal service has resumed today.
Showery and dull but very humid.

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[Stoney871]

And now some lovely thunderstorms with lightning over the Gareloch.

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[Micro]

Depending on how much the box writes to the SSD you may find it fails prematurely. Something I didn't know before buying my SSD for my laptop is they keep track of how much data is written, and that is a term of their warranty too.

That said, being able to turn my laptop on in less than 10 seconds, and apps are just loaded instantly, is ***** amazing.

[Luke4efc]

Get a decent make like Samsung and the writes shouldn't be an issue. Most modern SSD's have a life expectancy as long or longer than HDD's. 

Be wary of SSHD's, they're a bit like a hybrid that I don't believe would be any more beneficial to you than a normal HDD. Basically they store all the most used data on the solid state part for fast access and anything used less frequently on the disk. Nowadays an SSD isnt much more expensive.

[Lenny]

On 7/4/2019 at 10:23 PM, Luke4efc said:

Get a decent make like Samsung and the writes shouldn't be an issue. Most modern SSD's have a life expectancy as long or longer than HDD's. 

Be wary of SSHD's, they're a bit like a hybrid that I don't believe would be any more beneficial to you than a normal HDD. Basically they store all the most used data on the solid state part for fast access and anything used less frequently on the disk. Nowadays an SSD isnt much more expensive.

Thanks mate, 

Would "Crucial" be considered a good brand? 

I had this one bookmarked but I've not yet purchased: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CT480BX500SSD1Z-Internal-Solid-State/dp/B07G3KRVWP/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&ref_=ox_sc_saved_image_2&smid=AZH2GF8Z5J95G 

The only item I've purchased to date was this neat 2.5" to 3.5" metal adaptor frame

which is minimal design compared to most other 2.5-3.5" adapters available on the market;

Being minimal is design; it will help keep things as cool as possible while also allowing me to secure the new hard drive in to the same holes as the standard one..

Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B074K95T4X/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_m06hDb90EWJDY?tag=autoclubinte-21 

[Micro]

On 7/5/2019 at 10:01 PM, Lenny said:

Thanks mate, 

Would "Crucial" be considered a good brand? 

 

 

I've got the Crucial MX500 1TB in my laptop. Crucial is Micron, they've been around since the 1970's i believe.

[Lenny]

Update: 

I had put this little project on pause for a while due to the high cost of a good Solid State HardDrive.

I've had the virgin media box in storage inside my wardrobe which I've become tired looking at every day and its spurred me on to attempt completion of this upgrade.

I logged on to amazon last Thursday and purchased a 500GB Samsung 860 Evo Solid State HardDrive which arrived to me in Ireland thismorning 🙆‍♂️

I still dont have a laptop or desktop computer; so I didn't invest in the recommended docking station just yet;

To be honest with three kids starting school in a few weeks, I've just about managed to spend 100GBP on this project to purchase the hardware, 

I'm just home from work this morning at 07:30 after been working last night; the amazon delivery arrived at 09:35 

Soon after; I walked down town to a very reputable mobile phone and computer repair shop; I provided them with both HardDrive units and explained one is from a Virgin Media box and the other is brand new; I would like them to mirror the drives, 

They asked whether I had heard of this being successfully done before on a virgin media box; which I explained that I haven't found any information on it anywhere; 

They said the firmware may be encrypted on the drive; they said HDD upgrade was possible on early Sky+ boxs but later not possible with SkyQ as the software was encrypted, 

They advised that I leave the drives with them for a few days and they will do there best to clone the drives; if they cant theres no charge and if it's a simple process I.e not encrypted; then they should have it ready for collection later today. 

Overall now I've taken the little project as far as I can; and have become somewhat a scrum master in the process for fellow virgin media box owners; as i/we will soon know if it is possible to achieve, 

I'm confident these guys have the software and skills to make it happen if it's atall possible they have helped a few people in work regarding software issues and replacement camera lens aswell as screens on phones. 

There very knowledgeable; also if it's as easy as copy files from A-B they will tell me whether or not it was that easy to do. 

So fingers crossed; as I'd like it to be possible & I don't want to be left with a 500Gb Samsung SSD with no use for it. 

 

[Nick Y]

2 hours ago, Lenny said:

Update: 

I had put this little project on pause for a while due to the high cost of a good Solid State HardDrive.

I've had the virgin media box in storage inside my wardrobe which I've become tired looking at every day and its spurred me on to attempt completion of this upgrade.

Soon after; I walked down town to a very reputable mobile phone and computer repair shop; I provided them with both HardDrive units and explained one is from a Virgin Media box and the other is brand new; I would like them to mirror the drives, 

They asked whether I had heard of this being successfully done before on a virgin media box; which I explained that I haven't found any information on it anywhere; 

They said the firmware may be encrypted on the drive; they said HDD upgrade was possible on early Sky+ boxs but later not possible with SkyQ as the software was encrypted, 

They advised that I leave the drives with them for a few days and they will do there best to clone the drives; if they cant theres no charge and if it's a simple process I.e not encrypted; then they should have it ready for collection later today. 

VM TiVo boxes are encrypted. This is why you cannot plug in an external HDD and transfer the recordings across. When my first TiVo box failed I asked the engineer if I could have access to the HDD as I had some important recordings on there featuring friends or family. Unfortunately it was not possible due to copyright laws etc.
US TiVo boxes can be modified as there are different laws over there. 

If it's just the V+ box then it might be possible as I have heard of a few people being able to transfer recordings to external devices. Not sure about the operating system software though. 

I know that PS4 and XBox One HDDs are also encrypted but with PS4 there is a way around it if you need to swap over the drives (I have done HDD swaps on both my standard PS4 and my PS4 pro).

[Micro]

If the drive is cloned one to one (i.e. both drives are 500gb) then it shouldn't matter if it is encrypted.

Depending upon the VM boxes, it might be as easy as just putting the blank drive in the box and doing a factory reset.

[Lenny]

On 8/10/2019 at 2:01 PM, Nick Y said:

VM TiVo boxes are encrypted. This is why you cannot plug in an external HDD and transfer the recordings across. When my first TiVo box failed I asked the engineer if I could have access to the HDD as I had some important recordings on there featuring friends or family. Unfortunately it was not possible due to copyright laws etc.
US TiVo boxes can be modified as there are different laws over there. 

If it's just the V+ box then it might be possible as I have heard of a few people being able to transfer recordings to external devices. Not sure about the operating system software though. 

I know that PS4 and XBox One HDDs are also encrypted but with PS4 there is a way around it if you need to swap over the drives (I have done HDD swaps on both my standard PS4 and my PS4 pro).

Thanks for your response mate,

Unfortunately we dont have the TiVo box's in Ireland and I've contacted Virgin Media in the past to enquire about the TiVo box's being capable of functioning on there Irish network; as in if I were to purchase a TiVo box from eBay uk; would it work with my viewing card and they said no there not registered to function on the Irish system 🙁

Instead we have old equipment which was once introduced by a similar company called UPC; I'm not sure if you guys have heard of UPC before but they were a competitor for sky over here; if you lived in a city or networked town they would provide you with a cable link box exactly the Cisco unit I have now as a multiroom box from Virgin Media as virgin bought UPC Ireland and are using there box's to provide Virgin, 

Back in UPC times; if you lived in the country side; they would provide you with sky equipment but a UPC viewing Card which was a strange sight since there a competitor but anyway unfortunately no tivo, 

I like the compact size of the TiVo box's compared to this Cisco model its huge unnecessarily huge as I will show in images of the circuit board contents later; they could have halfed its size by stacking the boards.

The main box is a Samsung and the multi room boxs are Cisco; doesn't make sense though; surly would be cheaper to supply TiVo box's to Ireland & uk 

On 8/11/2019 at 8:20 AM, Micro said:

If the drive is cloned one to one (i.e. both drives are 500gb) then it shouldn't matter if it is encrypted.

Depending upon the VM boxes, it might be as easy as just putting the blank drive in the box and doing a factory reset.

Thanks for your response, 

I now have an update on progress;

I recieved a call yesterday from the local IT repair guys; they said there's nothing on the Virgin Media hard drive for them to clone on to the Solid State HardDrive 😧 I was surprised at this news; they then said that IP boxes wasn't really there field of expertise and perhaps there is some data there but it's not visible using there cloning software, 

They said I can collect the drives anytime and theres no charge; they advised me to just try installing the SSHD in to the Virgin Media box and maybe it will function; they suggested perhaps the operating system is on the main board itself for encryption purposes,

So I collected the drives that evening and thanked them for there time as they are very capable of alot; I've heard great reviews from people I work with regarding there services.

I'll now create a new post explaining how the process went as it was successful in the end and from searching the internet theres no information out there on doing this; so I'm going to document it in some detail.

[Lenny]

The above image shows the amount of empty space inside the multiroom viewing box; the motherboards could have been double stacked including the HardDrive to half the entire size.

The above image shows the SATA cable; I ordered a SATA3 from amazon but this one fitted says ASAP on it; 

I googled and found that SATA3 and ASAP are exactly the same thing both capable of up to 6GB transfer rate with the ASAP standing for "As Soon As Possible" ☺️ 

So I've left the SATA3 cable untouched, 

Moving on from that discussion regarding the size etc. 

The Cisco box which I took apart for upgrade was an old box which I had spare since I cancelled my subscription and signed the wife up instead in order to avail of a 12 months half price subscription deal 😉

The only sting in the tail was now; when I fitted the SSHD and tried to power up the old Cisco box; it wouldn't function only to display a screen image request for me to call Virgin Media and register the box to the subscription service.😟

I then tried inserting the viewing Card which was registered for subscription; tried inserting that in to the old viewing box; however it then asked me to insert the correct card for the box🙁

At this point I then had to open another Cisco box identical to the first unit but this one was registered to operate with the existing subscription and card👇

WWS T10 Torx just barely managed to remove the security screws successfully alternatively I could have gripped there mushroom heads with a pliers ☺️ there not very secure atall.

Four Torx screws removed and were successfully in 🙇‍♂️

Interesting to see the lack of consistency or loyalty with the supplier as this box had a 320GB Western Digital HDD where the previous box had a 320GB Seagate HDD both viewing box are exactly one year apart in production.

Anyway; above image is the 320GB HDD set next to its replacement 500GB Solid State HardDrive, huge difference in both the size and the weight. 

I plugged the SSHD in to this account registered VM box to trial before fitting 100% of the way just to test if it was going to be a success before completing the process 😬

A few butt clenching minutes later and Thankfully it was a sucess;

The unit started up without a single sound and continued to function without detecting anything different atall it seems the Virgin Media software program is stored on one of the boards while the HDD just stores the viewing/Recordings;

So I unplugged the box again and set about fully installing the SSHD. 

Above is the SATA3 2.5" to 3.5" adapter which I've linked to before; I quite like its minimalistic design its also very strong &sturdy no flexing atall, 

Fitted the original brackets to both sides of the 3.5" adapter where you can also see some blue rubber grommets were fitted to help reduce vibration from the original noisy 3.5" HDD.

🤔 I tried fitting and suddenly the cables weren't long enough 😅 I then realized; I had fitted the replacement drive upside down 🤦‍♂️

I removed the four screws; turned the drive upside down and refitted the four screws securing the side brackets; 

The cables are now refitted exactly as they were in the original drive, 

One final picture then of the viewing  box internal setup with the replacement Solid State HardDrive fitted before refitting the cover and the four Torx Screws👍

Refitted in the bedroom now and its operating perfectly without making any noise atall doesnt create half as much heat and theres an increase in the storage capacity;

I'm delighted with the results, 

Thanks for Reading 👍

Two items purchased from the amazon shopping Basket used in this process were: 

HDD Adapter: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B074K95T4X/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_m06hDb90EWJDY?tag=autoclubinte-21 

Solid HDD: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B078WQT6S6?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details 

[Lenny]

Following the success of the Virgin Media Multiroom box SSHD upgrade; 

I've now begun to try upgrading the main Virgin Media box to a Solid state HardDrive; it's a Samsung Horizon box SMT-G7401/XEN and its the second generation of this unit which I have both dissected here to compare followed by the SSHD upgrade process; 

The smaller unit is the new model; they both look identical on appearance it's only when you sit them next to each other you can clearly see the newer model is slimmer and considerably lighter, 

Here is the first generation Samsung Horizon box model SMT-G7400/XEN which I have opened only to compare its internal with the newer model, and show how the lid is removed, 

Some front & rear pictures 

I've placed the unit upside down on a piece of clothing to prevent scratches; 

Using a T10 Security Torx bit; removed the five screws from the underside 

Followed by removing these three screws from the rear, 

The top then clips off; but take care when lifting as there are still some cables attached to the lid.

In the image below; you can see why this generation of viewing box is considerably noisy as it has two internal fans and a 7500RPM 3.5" HardDrive 🛫

I've positioned the lid much like a car bonnet to best protect the cables attached from damage.

Now moving on to the new updated Model SMT-G7401/XEN 

We discovered that the newer model is quieter more silent in operation due to it only having a radiator and one thermo static cooling fan aswell as a smaller 2.5" HardDrive although these units still make noise, the newer generation of Samsung Horizon box is considerably quieter in operation.

I've gotten the same 500GB Samsung SSD as used in the multiroom box and my PS4 

I also thought I'd be a bit more professional about things and picked up a Draper 82399 security Torx set from amazon for ten pounds link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GZWT5FW?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details 

Now heres the new box 

First impression of the underside shows a security seal covering the centre screw where the first generation hasn't gotten any security seal atall, 

The second fan underneath doesn't exist on the second generation neither, 

The side fan still remains yet it is the only fan present on the entire unit.

Theres no longer a viewing Card slot fitted to the box; it doesn't use a viewing Card atall, 

The method for opening up the unit is identical to the first generation model; the only difference is removing a warranty seal to access the centre T10 Secure Torx 

And here we are inside; you can see a newer laptop style 2.5" HardDrive, also theres a new radiator system setup spanning across the motherboard using only one fan which personally I think it looks impressive. 

Below you can see thr side fan and how its linked to the new radiator setup, 

Unscrewed the top bracket of the HardDrive 

Unplugged the SATA or ASAP as it's called here meaning "As Soon As Possible" connector 

Gently press on the clip and unplug 

Followed by unplugging the opposite end from the HardDrive in order to gain access to the second hard drive bracket.

Unscrewed the bracket 

And out comes the hard drive 

i then plugged in the replacement SSHD 

I just plugged in the SSHD momentarily; without fitting the HardDrive bracket in order to find out whether the system would operate smoothly before fully fitting the replacement drive.

So I reconnected the box to the television and power supply; turned it on, 

The system started up as normal but then shut down again after running the initial startup process it would return to standby mode.

I had planned to attempt cloning the original 500GB HardDrive to the replacement SSHD; by bringing both of them to a local computer repair shop to have the original drive cloned on to the replacement SSHD, 

If cloned successfully then the system shouldn't detect anything is changed and boot up;

however I'm reluctant to try this just yet as the newer Samsung Horizon box isint really that noisey compared to the original unit so I think I may just leave it as it is with the 2.5" rotational HardDrive. 

I hope some find this post of interest as I have documented the difference between new and old Samsung Horizon box's and it's good to see efforts being made to reduce noise levels considerably. 

[Micro]

Are you any good with computers Lenny?

A couple of £10~ SATA-USB3 adapters would sort you out and you could do this yourself.

It may just be complaining because the partitions are missing - you could always  try to "hotplug" the drives whilst the system is running, and running any disk "reset" / "housekeeping" / "format" commands in the setup menus once you've plugged your new drive in. Just beware although probably unlikely, this might damage something.

[Weekend Warrior]

Dear Lenny,

Please let me know the kind of file system you applied on your SSD. I also tried to replace the annoying-buzzing HDD in the same Cisco mediabox but whatever file system I try (NTFS, exFAT, FAT32, unallocated, cloned for mediabox's HDD..) it falls into an infinite loop when booting. (green light .. Load>>... green blinks ... red light ... ..start over).

 

Thanks in advance!

[Zico]

@BigLen you're being hailed 

[BigLen]

On 9/26/2020 at 7:50 PM, Weekend Warrior said:

Dear Lenny,

Please let me know the kind of file system you applied on your SSD. I also tried to replace the annoying-buzzing HDD in the same Cisco mediabox but whatever file system I try (NTFS, exFAT, FAT32, unallocated, cloned for mediabox's HDD..) it falls into an infinite loop when booting. (green light .. Load>>... green blinks ... red light ... ..start over).

 

Thanks in advance!

Im not sure how to answer this mate, as I just took the solid state hard drive out of the packaging and plugged it in to the Cisco box, tuned it on and it started.

I've since terminated multiroom subscription but the box was never disconnected; I'll try it today and see if it still starts, to see wheather virgin released an update to prevent HDD upgrade, but the Cisco box seemed to only use the hard drive for storage, the operating system seemed to be on the motherboard somewhere as I didn't clone the original drive just replaced it with one directly from the box.

[Weekend Warrior]

It seems that our local provider applies a kind of encryption on these devices. I connected its HDD (with lots of recordings) to my PC that found it unpartitioned.😓

[Nick Y]

33 minutes ago, Weekend Warrior said:

It seems that our local provider applies a kind of encryption on these devices. I connected its HDD (with lots of recordings) to my PC that found it unpartitioned.😓

In the UK the providers have to encrypt the HDDs to prevent piracy and unauthorised copying/transferring of recordings. 
It's the same system which prevents copying/transferring of recorded/captured videos from GTA on the PS4/XBox 1.