gtr manchester clean air charge

[lexibo]

hi all just wondering what you all thought of the manchester clean air charge coming into force in 2021 . from what i can gather all diesel vans below euro 6 will be charged £7.50 per day to travel in the greater manchester area which is huge . buses and lorries will be charged £100.00 per day yes you read that right £100.00 per day . initially the charge was meant to come into effect in 2023 for vans 2021 for lorries and buses . but the government as said that all diesel vans euro 5 or under will be charged from 2021 . so £210.00 a month if you use your van every day . there is not a lot of discussion going on at the moment i think that maybe because people dont believe it but apparently it is true as unbelievable as it may sound

[Luke4efc]

I'd just be so unlucky everyday that a leaf falls off a tree covering some of my numberplate letters. Even if you do get caught, the fine is only the same as 1 day within the zone sooo

[zain611]

I really really hope they don't bring this stupid ULEZ charge. In 2021 they want to also expand the ULEZ area to the whole of London. I might have to forcefully sell my pride and joy as its a diesel. To me it's just a tax on the poor. The rich would have their expensive cars which won't be part of the charge or are able to pay easily. Doesn't help that they built new cycle lanes in London narrowing the roads and increasing traffic especially when buses stop ad their is no lay by for them since the government made it a cycle lane. 

[Tdci-Peter]

It is all very stupid. A popular belief is that low emmission (Euro3/4/5) diesels are very dangerous, with no real foundation in truth. In rural areas there is no problem at all, even in crowded urban areas the problems are limited and local. The truth is our cities have never been cleaner, yet people are still getting allergies and related illnesses.

The big killer will be CO2, which is where highly efficient diesels are the least problem. Electric cars, with their inefficient, short lived and unreliable huge batteries are much worse. The CO2 involved in extracting the materials, making the cells, plus the waste in every charge cycle, is huge. Also most users will want to charge at night when solar power is not available, so it will be nuclear, hydrocarbon gas, oil or coal for the electricity, with huge CO2 emissions. The lifetime of the cars will be short too, who will want to buy a second hand battery car (hybrid or pure electric) with an even slightly dodgy battery?

It is a case of putting popular and perceived but invalid problems before very big and real but largely unseen problems. Sad.

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

10 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

. The truth is our cities have never been cleaner, yet people are still getting allergies and related illnesses.

All this baffles me. I was growing up in the 50's and 60's in a coal mining area, so there was dust everywhere and everyone had coal fires. I lived within a few miles of several coal fired power stations, there were half a dozen loco sheds in the area with hundreds of steam locomotives. Smog type events were frequent and lingered for days. We kids even used to hang over bridge parapets when trains passed under to be engulfed in the smoke and steam - yet I never heard of anyone with asthma, allergies etc. There were plenty of ex-miners with work related issues, of course!

Don't get me wrong - I'm all in favour of sensible measures to reduce pollution, and I wouldn't want to go back to the way things were, but given, as you say, the much cleaner air compared with 60 years ago, I struggle to see what is behind the prevalence of asthma like conditions nowadays. 

It is indeed concerning that governments seem to be putting all their money (correction: our  money) on the battery-electric horse, which has plenty of issues of it's own. This item by the Aston Martin CEO makes a lot of sense:

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/aston-martin-ceo-combustion-engine-ban-either-disastrous-or-pointless

[Westville]

I may be being unduly cynical BUT I think these so-called 'clean air' charges are just a potential source of revenue for local authorities and yet another hit on an easy target - the motorist. Rather annoyingly Newcastle and Gateshead are "consulting" on introducing them and although I and others have made our views clear it is inevitable the 'charge' will be introduced here, despite there being a distinct lack of strategic thinking taking into account the immediate and longer term impact of "driving" out traditional (existing) engine technology in favour of 'possible' technology.

Yes it can be dirty and no doubt does throw up polluting and dangerous fumes together with the environmental impact of making and disposing of the things - BUT that ignores the real world issue of how to provide economic transport for the people and goods that we all need to survive.

Until such time as alternative technologies come along that are economic and viable the push to rid the world of existing cars is both naive and futile since no country could possibly afford to risk an outright ban or cough up (no pun intended) sufficient compensation for owners to force them to change.

So it seems to me it is all political wind which like the real wind will change direction to suit the agendas of the political elite who think they know what is best for us all but in doing so ignore the REAL world.

[zain611]

Not to be rude but the Aston Martin ceo has a point however he's a rich entrepreneurs looking out for his business. Do have to say some hybrid engines are great. I saw a Mercedes s500 which is a petrol hybrid which has a 5.2 sec 0 to 60 and claimed 100mpg. Only thing with mpg figures is is that with both the petrol engine and electric motor both working or is it one or the other on? Some of volvos newer hybrids have performance and economy also which I like. 

Personally with this ULEZ charge they need to consider the people who can't afford to get a compliant car. Me for example I can't afford a 2015 or newer diesel as they are a lot of money and in terms of petrols from 2005 there are cheap ones around like my Peugeot 107 however some people might want a bigger more practical car. I'd want a cheap to run car as it'll help me save more money later on to put towards another car or a property. Black cabs for example are exempt and they spit out the most rubbish compared to other taxis. 

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

34 minutes ago, zain611 said:

Do have to say some hybrid engines are great.

The daft thing about this is, if you read the D of E comments linked to the article I mentioned, that they are saying cars with some form of electrification are ok. So all you need to do is get yourself a really, really top job after you've finished your studies, buy yourself an S500 and you're sorted!😀