Stophen

Ford Focus Mk2 DPF Error Code P2463 'DPF - Excessive Soot Accumulation'

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Hi,

I'm sure this topic has been covered a lot but mine is slightly different and I was wondering if anybody has experienced this.

Last Monday (15/07/2019) my engine system management light came on and my AA car genie reported error code P2463 'DPF - Excessive Soot Accumulation'.

I booked my car into the Glasgow branch of DPF doctor (who have been great) and got the PDF statically cleaned and error codes erased. The readings were checked using the computer and manually at the DPF (ruling out a sensor problem).

Unfortunately the same engine system management light / error code came back on last Saturday after driving for about 50 minutes at around 60-70mph.

I contacted the DPF Doctor and went back in this morning (22/07/2019). They checked the readings, all was fine and cleared the error code.

Unfortunately after driving for about 30 minutes the same system management light / error code came back on later in the day.

I've contacted the guys again to see what the next step is (they mentioned it might be to update the DPF module software).

I was just wondering if anybody else has experienced this problem and if they manage to get is solved?

I'm planning on purchasing a windows laptop / Foscan as pragmatix & Luke4efc suggested so I can see what is going on.

Cheers,

Stophen.

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On 7/22/2019 at 4:04 PM, Stophen said:

Hi,

I'm sure this topic has been covered a lot but mine is slightly different and I was wondering if anybody has experienced this.

Last Monday (15/07/2019) my engine system management light came on and my AA car genie reported error code P2463 'DPF - Excessive Soot Accumulation'.

I booked my car into the Glasgow branch of DPF doctor (who have been great) and got the PDF statically cleaned and error codes erased. The readings were checked using the computer and manually at the DPF (ruling out a sensor problem).

Unfortunately the same engine system management light / error code came back on last Saturday after driving for about 50 minutes at around 60-70mph.

I contacted the DPF Doctor and went back in this morning (22/07/2019). They checked the readings, all was fine and cleared the error code.

Unfortunately after driving for about 30 minutes the same system management light / error code came back on later in the day.

I've contacted the guys again to see what the next step is (they mentioned it might be to update the DPF module software).

I was just wondering if anybody else has experienced this problem and if they manage to get is solved?

I'm planning on purchasing a windows laptop / Foscan as pragmatix & Luke4efc suggested so I can see what is going on.

Cheers,

Stophen.

The DPF sensor might be faulty.

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Thanks 1979Damian

I have had the software updated (free of charge - thank you DPF Doctor Glasgow / B&M Autos) and so far it seems ok. The guys did say that the next step would be to change the sensor, so I will see what happens.

Cheers, Stophen. 

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1 hour ago, Stophen said:

The guys did say that the next step would be to change the sensor, so I will see what happens.

Before changing the sensor, check the hoses from the DPF to the sensor. These are notorious for going brittle and cracking or breaking, which will give incorrect readings at the sensor.

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10 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

Before changing the sensor, check the hoses from the DPF to the sensor. These are notorious for going brittle and cracking or breaking, which will give incorrect readings at the sensor.

Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind if I have any more problems!

cheers, Stophen.

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Right, after a few more miles the same fault code has registered to I reckon the next stage is a new sensor.

Is it possible to replace the sensor myself? I guess afterwards I would need to reset the fault codes and clear the system?

I've been thinking about buying ForScan and a cheap Windows laptop to run it so this might be the time and save on all those diagnostic charges.

What do you think @Tdci-Peter & @1979Damian?

Stophen.

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1 hour ago, Stophen said:

Is it possible to replace the sensor myself? I guess afterwards I would need to reset the fault codes and clear the system?

From other reports, it it quite easy to replace the sensor. A basic old laptop running Windows 7 or even XP (I still use XP) should be quite cheap, Forscan is not a very demanding program in terms of memory or processor speed. Being able to read the sensor value and see and reset codes on demand is a huge advantage in itself, even before the saving in charges.

It will run on a tablet / pad / smartphone, but there are some limitations.

I have not heard of many cases where the sensor itself is the faulty bit though. The hoses are a much more common problem.

Get an ELM327 that is stated to be Forscan compatible. They are all clones of an rarely available original, and the quality does vary a lot. I suspect pragmatix et al. recommended tunnelrat as a supplier, and their stuff is usually ok. You do not actually need the "modified" version that can read the MS-CAN bus to diagnose a DPF problem, but it does no harm to have it, and may be useful in the future, eg with the dreaded airbag system problems.

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The sensor is attached to the side of the battery box, 1 electrical connector and 2 small rubber pipes...takes about 30 seconds to change. :smile:  Definitely worth checking the pipes are intact though, and not blocked themselves.

 

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Thanks @Tdci-Peter & @TomsFocus,

Is this the sensor I should be checking (this is a picture I found on Google, not my own car):

image.png.8a59fa389ad249976e5121b81ba381a1.png

Here's a schematic of the DPF:

image.thumb.png.d5a483976724deaf7093c3f5d227b2c2.png

Is it '5H241' (Ford part: 1451716) & '5H2090A' (Ford part: 1415606) that I should be looking to replace?

Cheers, Stophen.

 

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29 minutes ago, Stophen said:

Is it '5H241' (Ford part: 1451716) & '5H2090A' (Ford part: 1415606) that I should be looking to replace?

In basic terms ,yes.

There seems some confusion on the drawing & site about which part number is the combined hose & sensor assembly, and which is just the hose pair. But this should be clear on any seller's web page. They look the right parts. If expensive, I would advise further diagnosis and tests (inc with Forscan possibly) before splashing out.

I assume your car has the cDPF, not the earlier Eolys additive DPF. Both were made in 2010, Euro 5 standard seemed to have the cDPF, Euro 4 was the Eolys type. The Eolys DPF was very prone to soot build up if there were any problems with the additive system.

 

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Thanks @Tdci-Peter.

I will check the parts carefully, do they normally come as a combined hose & assembly set?

Is there a way to check whether my car is Euro 5 or Euro 4?

Cheers, Stophen.

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10 hours ago, Stophen said:

Thanks @Tdci-Peter & @TomsFocus,

Is this the sensor I should be checking (this is a picture I found on Google, not my own car):

image.png.8a59fa389ad249976e5121b81ba381a1.png

 

Yeah that's the one...although hopefully yours will be plugged in unlike that one! :biggrin: 

By 2010 you should almost certainly be on the cDPF unless it was very late registered.  I've seen plenty of 09 models on the cDPF.  Easiest way is probably to check ETIS (or message me your reg and I'll check), under emissions it'll either say Euro IV & DPF or Euro V.

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Hi @TomsFocus & @Tdci-Peter,

I've checked my V5C and under emissions there are just numbers. The variant is G8DD1P & version is EURO55KAC MH, first registered on 16/02/2011, if that makes sense?

I haven't used FORScan before, but is it a case of just deleting the fault codes for the DPF, or is it more involved than that?

Do you reckon these are the right parts;

1. Ford Sensor Assy 1415606: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Genuine-Ford-Focus-C-Max-Galaxy-S-Max-Mondeo-MK4-Exhaust-DPF-Sensor-1415606/153556895556?epid=1747158481&hash=item23c0b44744:g:boYAAOSwnAddIlY0)

2. Ford Hose Assy 1451716: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Ford-Focus-MK2-C-Max-Lambda-O2-Oxygen-Sensor-1451716/273534001183?fits=Car+Make%3AFord&epid=1309796250&hash=item3fafe5a01f:g:HggAAOSwtcRb2HiZ

Cheers, Stophen.

 

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2 hours ago, Stophen said:

I've checked my V5C and under emissions there are just numbers. The variant is G8DD1P & version is EURO55KAC

I checked my V5C, and the version was EURO4.... (I forget what else, and I am away from home now so can't check, but it was something like 5KAC), which stacks up with my car being Euro4 and yours being Euro5.

The sensor looks right, but at £75 I would not buy it just to try to see if it was at fault. There are a number of causes for the error message, with a blocked (eg knackered) DPF being maybe the most likely, but least wanted cause.

I would use the diagnostic facilities in Forscan to view the readings from the sensor. If possible I would remove and very thoroughly check the hoses to the sensor. I can cheat, as I have the equipment needed to test pressure sensors (I design & manufacture pressure sensing stuff!), but there are DIY ways to at least partially test the sensor, like putting a finger over a port or gently blowing into a port and seeing what the reading does. 10kPa is 1/10th of atmospheric pressure, or about 1.5PSI, or a water column about 1m high.

It is quite easy to capture traces of the sensor reading while driving, and we can see if they look reasonably consistent with a blocked DPF.

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12 hours ago, Stophen said:

I haven't used FORScan before, but is it a case of just deleting the fault codes for the DPF, or is it more involved than that?

If it turns out to be a sensor or pipe fault you will just need to clear the fault codes.  There are other 'actions' to complete after cleaning or replacing the DPF but I'd hope a DPF garage would have the equipment to do this themselves anyway.

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Hi @Tdci-Peter & @TomsFocus,

Thanks for the advice.

My thoughts behind thinking it is a sensor fault is that when I initally took the car to the Glasgow DPF doctor he took a look at my fault codes and worked out that at some point the car had run out of diesel (whoops) and as a result the computer had stopped the DPF from recharging. He carried out a static recharge, test drove the car for about 20 minutes and then checked the sensor readings (manually and electronically) and confirmed everything was now within parameters. After I reported the problem for the second time he reinstalled the Ford DPF software and test drove / tested again, all being fine.

The error code keeps reappearing after about an hours worth of total driving (P2463 - Diesel Particulate Filter: Excessive Soot Accumulation). Bizarrely enough my 'Oil Service' light also flashes up on my computer screen just before the system management light flashes on..? The oil was changed about three weeks ago so I don't quite know what that is about, unless it is a bug in the system. The DPF doctor did say to me that as all the readings check out the next stage would be to replace the sensor.

I've got a Windows laptop / ELM27 arriving later this week so can take a look at the readings then.

I don't mind paying for a new sensor / pipes if it will help as the car is at the 125,000 mark.

Any other ideas of what the issue could be?

Cheers, Stophen.

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Running out of diesel won't stop regens occurring once you put more in...  He may have meant it'd been run low for a while (sticking a fiver in every day instead putting a proper amount in) as the fuel level in the tank has to be a certain amount before it will start a regen.

It is weird that it's taking so long for the code to come back.  However I misread your first post.  I thought you'd had the DPF sonically cleaned - as in removed and cleaned properly.  Now I've read it again I realise it was only a static regen, not a clean.  So chances are the DPF probably is getting full of ash by that mileage.  The pressures aren't spiking high enough to trigger a regen, but because they're reasonably high over a prolonged period, the car thinks the DPF is full of ash (even if it's still got some capacity left).  If you can get some live data graphs with the DPF differential pressure that would help us here.  Ideally we want to see variations between idle, hard throttle/heavy load, and cruising at motorway speed.  This particular scenario does usually require the DPF to be replaced or cleaned properly to remove the ash unfortunately, it's the code I kept getting first time I had to replace the DPF on mine, cleaning wasn't economically viable at the time but may have come down in price since.

There isn't a service light on the Mk2 Focus, the warning you're getting is something like 'engine service now' iirc, which is actually a fault warning, that is most likely being caused by this DPF issue. 

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Hi @TomsFocus,

Thanks for this. I'll get you the data when I'm all set up. I take it is fairly straight forward to capture live data on FORScan?

I can only remember one occasion when I was desperately low on fuel, and if I remember rightly the engine system management light did come on. But it's normally kept well fed so that's a funny one.

The DPF doctor was a little confused as to why the light kept coming back on since the readings were ok (hence the suggestion to replace the sensor) and that the error code only suggested soot accumulation, not ash.

Is it possible to clean the DPF yourself using a power washer?

Cheers, Stophen.

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Forscan is all pretty intuitive really, if you get stuck though feel free to ask on here.  Peter's Forscan info is usually the most informative!

As I say, being low on fuel isn't an issue, the DPF just won't regen until you put enough in (quarter tank at least).  If the engine light came on due to low fuel there may have been a bit of a restriction in the fuel filter.  I run mine low every tankful but then fill to the brim each time.  

My problem with replacing the sensor is that your readings are fine (according to the DPF doctor anyway).  The readings are what the ECU uses to determine a fault though.  So there should be no fault present unless you can pick it up through the sensor.  It is possible the sensor is only failing when hot I guess, but I can't say I've come across that with a pressure sensor so far.  

Technically it's possible to wash the DPF with a jetwash, I've seen it done on YouTube, but l wouldn't recommend it.  The ends are bent on the 1.6TDCi so you couldn't effectively wash it anyway.  Any remaining ash that gets wet will set like concrete causing more problems.

 

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Thanks @TomsFocus, I will get some readings and get back to you.

Would I get a separate error code if it was full of ash NOT soot? Or are they the same code faults?

Cheers, Stophen. 

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2 hours ago, Stophen said:

Thanks @TomsFocus, I will get some readings and get back to you.

Would I get a separate error code if it was full of ash NOT soot? Or are they the same code faults?

Cheers, Stophen. 

There are different codes for soot and ash.  However, there's only one pressure sensor for the DPF.  The PCM uses this single reading and tries to guess whether it's ash or soot causing the increased pressure...needless to say it's not very accurate! 

The best it can do is make an educated guess based on whether its a sudden build up after lots of short, cold journeys (soot) or if it's a long term build up (ash).

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Thanks @TomsFocus for explaining that!

My journeys are normally 40 - 50minutes with speeds ranging from 20mph to 70mph and it has covered just over 125,000miles so it does sound like it could be clogged up.

I'll get some readings and get back to you!

Cheers, Stophen.

 

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Oh, one last thing that I forgot to mention. The system engine fault light didn't come on today when I drove the car, but the fault still registered in my CarGenie app. Is that usual?

Cheers, Stophen.

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Car Genie app is a bit modern and new fangled for me! :wheelchair: :tongue:  It's perfectly acceptable for that particular code not to trigger any fault warnings on the dash.  You might find that there are other codes present when you use Forscan.  I guess the Car Genie just uses OBD2 where the Ford specific stuff goes a bit deeper.

 

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Thanks @TomsFocus, I am slightly dreading now what I will find!

Oh, the Car Genie OBD2 reader was free with my membership, although I hopefully won't be needing to call them out too soon!

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