Adaptive cruise control, dangerous

[Blatto]

5 hours ago, Matrix2020 said:

I absolutely love ACC over standard Cruise, which is virtually useless in the UK due to the amount of congestion, but as ever the driver is ultimately (for now) in control and responsible so, if you don't like it, don't use it.

I am not against adaptive cruise control in any way, I'm sure if it's implemented correctly it can be useful.

My original post was to highlight the danger of a system that forces you to travel way too closely to be safe. The current implemetation (in the Ford Fiesta, I haven't tried any other) is unsafe. If you have to take back manual control in an emergency you are left without enough time/space to do anything about it. It's not a matter of not liking it per se, just the unsafe version on offer. If the minimum setting 1 was about 3 seconds distance it might be useful.

21 hours ago, Stoney871 said:

I think the point to take from this all is that adaptive cruise is safer than 'dumb' cruise as it at least actively endeavours to maintain a safe distance

My point was it doesn't endeavour to maintain a safe distance, whoever thought a 1 sec gap (setting 1) was safe should be taken to task. 

[Stoney871]

Common sense would surely suggest not to use the minimum setting unless you are an Umbrella Corporation driver from Resident Evil - Apocalypse.

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[Eric Bloodaxe]

Would it not be even more common sense if the minimum setting was less minimum in the first place, which I think was Michael's original point?

[Matrix2020]

Its all personal choice. Technically the car will stop in time from the minimum distance due to the removal of the human delays (thinking and reaction). I hate it when everything has to be idiot safe, sharp knives blunt, because you could cut yourselves... Remember there are 4 levels its up to the driver to select which they feel is adequate or suitable for the conditions. They will never keep everyone happy all the time, my VW ACC settings are crazy long and make them unworkable on UK motorways due to drivers constantly cutting in... no point in complaining though I just turn it off and go with the flow. 

[Guy Heaton]

On 3/10/2020 at 12:53 PM, Matrix2020 said:

Cruise, which is virtually useless in the UK due to the amount of congestion, but as ever the driver is ultimately (for now) in control and responsible so, if you don't like it, don't use it.

Active cruise only follows the car directly in front, it cannot look 100 yards ahead and realise that the driver of the car in front has fallen asleep and is about to plough into the back of a lorry at 70mph.  Doesn't matter how quick it could react, it would still crash.

And yes, the driver should be still paying attention, but how many stories did we see when satnav was first around, with morons driving up one way streets and into rivers because "the satnav told me to."    People WILL stick on that active cruise and switch off their brains.

I can't help thinking drivers need to be taught to pay MORE attention, not less.

 

[Blatto]

5 hours ago, Matrix2020 said:

Technically the car will stop in time from the minimum distance due to the removal of the human delays (thinking and reaction)

Try looking at some Autocar test results for braking from 60mph, most cars will be over 30 Metres, with only a few supercars getting under 30 metres. Settings 1 or 2 will still fail to stop in the distance that they are quoted for.

 

5 hours ago, Matrix2020 said:

Remember there are 4 levels its up to the driver to select which they feel is adequate

And 3 of them are totally inadequate, setting 4 is barely the minimum and leaves you insufficient vision to plan well ahead.

I get the impression most people don't plan ahead, they just follow the tail lights of the car in front and hope for the best when an emergency arises instead of giving themselves a decent chance of seeing the situation well in advance and leaving enough space to deal with it.

4 hours ago, Guy Heaton said:

I can't help thinking drivers need to be taught to pay MORE attention, not less.

Precisely

[Mavroz]

 As with everything else in life, if people aren't happy using something, don't use it.

If people don't trust the cruise control or don't think it is capable of performing as they think it should....... Then don't use it.

 

[Bobr]

13 hours ago, Blatto said:

I get the impression most people don't plan ahead, they just follow the tail lights of the car in front and hope for the best when an emergency arises instead of giving themselves a decent chance of seeing the situation well in advance and leaving enough space to deal with it.

At 70 mph on a motorway, you should be looking at least a quarter of a mile ahead.

[Guy Heaton]

I'd like a better passive cruise.  My 2008 Merc had this, where it would put the brakes on downhill to keep the speed.  I was a bit peeved that my 2019 Focus did not, unless I paid extra to spec something I didn't want.  

I'm not and never will be a fan of active over passive.  For instance, don't brake for me, just help me brake harder when it's needed.

[Bobr]

2 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

I'd like a better passive cruise.  My 2008 Merc had this, where it would put the brakes on downhill to keep the speed.  I was a bit peeved that my 2019 Focus did not, unless I paid extra to spec something I didn't want.  

I'm not and never will be a fan of active over passive.  For instance, don't brake for me, just help me brake harder when it's needed.

My 2017 Fiesta Titanium auto changes gear in order to keep the car at the set speed.

[TomsFocus]

3 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

I'm not and never will be a fan of active over passive.  For instance, don't brake for me, just help me brake harder when it's needed.

Unless going downhill, right?  

I am a bit surprised the Mk4 doesn't brake on cruise though.  What optional pack is that part of?

[Guy Heaton]

I think its part of the driver assistance pack.  IMO even passive cruise should apply the brakes these days.

[sussamb]

15 hours ago, Mavroz said:

 As with everything else in life, if people aren't happy using something, don't use it.

If people don't trust the cruise control or don't think it is capable of performing as they think it should....... Then don't use it.

 

The issue is more that many drivers will use it thinking it's safe and will then discover it simply isn't 🙂

[Matrix2020]

On 3/11/2020 at 7:19 PM, Blatto said:

Try looking at some Autocar test results for braking from 60mph, most cars will be over 30 Metres, with only a few supercars getting under 30 metres. Settings 1 or 2 will still fail to stop in the distance that they are quoted for.

 

You are assuming you are driving at a brick wall not following a moving vehicle. The car in front will also take time, and therefore distance, to slow down so it is not an issue. If you are driving blindly at a stationary object you will still likely stop but that would be extremely unlikely (why would you blindly drive at 60 mph with visibility below 30m??), and not necessarily the cars fault but the driver for not paying due care and attention. Its no different to saying setting 4 is dangerous in Ice, it remains the drivers responsibility as to what is safe and what is not.

[Blatto]

Back on the subject of following distances and safety, this guy talks some sense.

Nice set of videos for advanced driving techniques. For those that aren't familiar with him he was an ex Police advanced driving instructor.

This video gives 5 tips to help avoid accidents.

 

[Bobr]

As an ex police driver I would recommend that everyone watch that video.   If every driver observed his five points there would never be any accidents.

[Tdci-Peter]

Great video. Over the years I have learnt to use all those tips, though it took quite a few years to appreciate some of them!

It undermines the whole principle of adaptive cruise control, the weak software in that will not be looking ahead in anything like the same way as in the video. Plus all the important facts about driving too close.

When you see a video like that, sitting at a desk, you can really see that even at 30, potential trouble can approach very quickly, and there are so many things to watch out for. Vehicles pulling out, pedestrians stumbling into the road, stationary traffic round a bend just as three examples.

I would like to add a couple of tiny points that struck me. When he said concentrate 60% of the time, he did not mean 60% of the journey, with long periods fiddling with CDs, programming the sat nav or dealing with complex phone calls. He meant 60% of every single second, or less. If something needs eyes & mind off the road for more than a second, you need to plan ahead very carefully, or just don't do it.

The point about stress is a very good one. When he said, ok, everyone suffers from stress, he could have emphasised more how emergency service drivers have to deal with this. You know someone might be bleeding to death, or a worsening situation may lead to death & serious injury, but when driving, forget this. Concentrate on driving to the best of your ability, using your training and experience, regardless of the desperate urgency. If a trained driver can do this in a life and death situation, ordinary people like me should be able to do it if we are a bit late for work, school or some other appointment. But very often we don't.

[TomsFocus]

18 minutes ago, Tdci-Peter said:

The point about stress is a very good one. When he said, ok, everyone suffers from stress, he could have emphasised more how emergency service drivers have to deal with this. You know someone might be bleeding to death, or a worsening situation may lead to death & serious injury, but when driving, forget this. Concentrate on driving to the best of your ability, using your training and experience, regardless of the desperate urgency. If a trained driver can do this in a life and death situation, ordinary people like me should be able to do it if we are a bit late for work, school or some other appointment. But very often we don't.

This is the one where I fall down.  The first 4 all seem like common sense, and were taught to me on driving lessons, though I do appreciate that not everyone had professional lessons to gain those tips.   I never did agree with the idea that a new driver can be taught by a poor one, as long as they gain just enough knowledge to pass a basic half hour test.

But back on topic, it's trying to relax in the car that I struggle with.  I've got the seat slightly reclined, I've got 'calm' music on at a sensible volume, I'm generally on cruise control, I've even experimented with different scents of air freshener but I'm still always tense...  And get more and more tense by every other rule-breaker on the drive.  He made a great point at the end about 'having' priority not meaning you'll get it.  And while I expect people to pull out without looking, it really stresses me out every time it happens...largely because I'm expecting them to miss another hazard ahead and cause an RTC.  Blocking the road, trapping the rest of us and obligating us to help with any injuries!  Selfish, I know, but I can barely cope with a paper cut!  

Of course, the irony is that if everyone else was following the first 4 tips, I'd be much more relaxed, but that's never going to happen so it's me that needs to change somehow...  Any further tips for reducing stress while driving?  Especially from the blue-lighters on here?

[Matthew McGuinness]

On 6/14/2020 at 3:30 PM, Blatto said:

Back on the subject of following distances and safety, this guy talks some sense.

Nice set of videos for advanced driving techniques. For those that aren't familiar with him he was an ex Police advanced driving instructor.

This video gives 5 tips to help avoid accidents.

 

The video is made by the guy who was the examiner on my advanced driving test 🙂. His videos are always worth a watch, I learned a lot from him just from my test.

[Blatto]

I would urge everyone to go through his complete set of videos on advanced driving  if you have any interest in driving safely.

He is also not averse to a bit of speed too, you'll see in some of his videos the speedo suddenly becomes pixelated under certain circumstances 😁

 

 

[Nick Y]

24 minutes ago, Blatto said:

I would urge everyone to go through his complete set of videos on advanced driving  if you have any interest in driving safely.

He is also not averse to a bit of speed too, you'll see in some of his videos the speedo suddenly becomes pixelated under certain circumstances 😁

 

 

His videos are good but I have noticed that in the video above, he kind of breaks the rules. At 9m he's overtaking the white SUV on a corner. Now that's ok because he can see around the bend at that point but then he stays on the wrong side until he's almost in the next bend. He couldn't see what was coming round that left hand bend. 

[Matthew McGuinness]

40 minutes ago, Blatto said:

I would urge everyone to go through his complete set of videos on advanced driving  if you have any interest in driving safely.

He is also not averse to a bit of speed too, you'll see in some of his videos the speedo suddenly becomes pixelated under certain circumstances 😁

 

 

Watched this wan earlier. When he is doing the tests he like to test you on stuff like this. On my test, we got onto one road and said "Forget about the speed limit, just drive the road".

[Blatto]

4 hours ago, Nick Y said:

His videos are good but I have noticed that in the video above, he kind of breaks the rules. At 9m he's overtaking the white SUV on a corner. Now that's ok because he can see around the bend at that point but then he stays on the wrong side until he's almost in the next bend. He couldn't see what was coming round that left hand bend. 

Not so sure the dashcam will accurately show what he can see from his perspective. 

[Blatto]

4 hours ago, Matthew McGuinness said:

On my test, we got onto one road and said "Forget about the speed limit, just drive the road".

I took some advanced lessons many years ago, and "making good progress" was the code word for break the speed limit if you want and can do it safely.

Not in 20 or 30 mph zones though of course.