Focus Mk2.5 I think electric problems

[diz79]

Hi

 

I keep getting problems with the car not starting. Two main ones are

 

Engine Malfunction and Reduced aceleration.

 

The AA checked it and had minor fault codes but they were sure it's not mechanical.

 

I also  had problems with the bonnet lock managed to get that sorted just about.

 

I then got the car serviced to make sure the car was OK.

 

I changed the battery in the key fob had the garage check car thoroughly.

 

The only fault coded ive ever got is

 

(U0001) and (P1260)

 

I'm not getting these now though when I clear the fault codes it's OK again but sometimes I cant clear them I have a basic OBD 2 reader and a bluetooth one (bluetooth is better doesent always work though, prob need seperate thread for this).

 

After all these checks this is I guess the next steps please see below I found these are these the best solutions does anyone else know a good way?

 

https://www.avforums.com/threads/ford-focus-anti-theft-battery-issue.2083061/

 

https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/270823/Why+does+it+say+engine+system+fault+acceleration+reduced

 

https://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/77300-engine-malfunction-message/

 

Thanks in advance

[TomsFocus]

Sounds like an immobiliser fault, likely to be caused by bad soldering in the dash cluster (speedo clocks), fairly common issue on the Mk2 although less frequent on the Mk2.5.

If you have a Windows laptop I'd recommend Forscan over any generic OBD scanner.

[diz79]

Thanks Im currently using Torque app is there a way to fix or does it all have to be replaced.

[isetta]

I feel your pain, have a look at this thread

 

which is about the problems on my brother's Focus mk2.5

[isetta]

if it is the instrument cluster, I can say from doing it myself it is very easy to get out and quite easy to dismantle. And if you can't do fiddly fine soldering yourself, someone who can do that can do it less then 5 minutes if you hand them the circuit board out of the instrument cluster (eg if you have a local TV repair shop - do they still exist?) for a small amount of cash. and if you look at the pins on the circuit board with a magnifying glass before resoldering it might be possible to see the cracks in the soldering.(you can only see that when the circuit board is removed from the plastic surround as you need to see the reverse side, not the side with the connection pins sticking out..

But it could well be connectors in the wiring of the car - under bonnet, behind dashboard etc (my long thread mentions where they are). And thanks to TDCI peter for his assistance

 

[Tdci-Peter]

13 hours ago, diz79 said:

I'm not getting these now though when I clear the fault codes it's OK again but sometimes I cant clear them I have a basic OBD 2 reader and a bluetooth one (bluetooth is better doesent always work though, prob need seperate thread for this).

 

The codes don't stack up with the symptoms. P1260 Theft Detected - Vehicle Immobilized  would prevent starting, not cause the malfunction error.

The Instrument Cluster connector fault is very, very common for 2006 Foci, but less so for other years. Not sure what age the vehicle is, the profile says 2002, but the title says Mk2a (post 2008).

Basic OBD2 readers are very poor at picking up the Ford specific codes that can accompany malfunction messages, and the AA readers may not be much better. Torque is usually quite good, but wireless CAN adapters are notorious for unreliability. The safest option is Forscan and a USB ELM327, but it needs a laptop or similar.

There will be dozens of possible causes of the error light and message.

The remote control and keyfob is not linked to the immobiliser logic. A separate part of the key (a PATS capsule) is read by the immobiliser. And the immobiliser will never activate while the car is in use, for safety reasons.

[diz79]

Hi everyone, thanks for the input finally got it out going to have a look tonight, if for some reason it doesent work out ive seen the whole unit going on eBay for £50, can you do a straight swap if get similar year or do you have to use forscan to help with the changeover, which ive seen with some where people want to get a facelift?

 

Kind regards

[diz79]

On 8/2/2019 at 6:10 PM, isetta said:

if it is the instrument cluster, I can say from doing it myself it is very easy to get out and quite easy to dismantle. And if you can't do fiddly fine soldering yourself, someone who can do that can do it less then 5 minutes if you hand them the circuit board out of the instrument cluster (eg if you have a local TV repair shop - do they still exist?) for a small amount of cash. and if you look at the pins on the circuit board with a magnifying glass before resoldering it might be possible to see the cracks in the soldering.(you can only see that when the circuit board is removed from the plastic surround as you need to see the reverse side, not the side with the connection pins sticking out..

But it could well be connectors in the wiring of the car - under bonnet, behind dashboard etc (my long thread mentions where they are). And thanks to TDCI peter for his assistance

I have struggled to find a shop do you think, pc shops would do it maybe?

 

[isetta]

actually I see your details say

• Name: Darren
• Ford Model: Focus
• Ford Year: 2002

so is it mk2.5?    2002 would be mk1.5

[Tdci-Peter]

3 hours ago, diz79 said:

finally got it out going to have a look tonight, if for some reason it doesent work out ive seen the whole unit going on ebay for £50, can you do a straight swap

The IC (cluster) will need re-programming. 2 problems are the odometer (mileage), and the immobiliser (PATS). The ECU and the IC are matched up for PATS, the key codes are effectively stored in both. Forscan on a Windows (or Linux) system can increase odometer readings, but can not decrease them, for security reasons. It can also re-program the PATS codes, but it is a fairly complex process.

Changing both the ECU and the IC is not straightforward either, depending on your engine type, there may be some re-programming of the ECU needed (injector codes etc.). The year of the car and engine type are missing here.

However before doing anything so drastic, it needs to be confirmed if the fault is in the IC. Most of the internet reports relate to the 2006 IC bad batch, outside this date IC faults are less common than wiring or connector faults. I am not at all clear what the current symptoms are. An IC fault will produce many DTCs, I had loads when mine went. Also the PATS LED will flash out a code if there is an immobiliser problem caused by the faulty IC.

Resistance tests on the CAN bus can help determine if there is a fault in the wiring or in the IC.

[diz79]

4 hours ago, isetta said:

actually I see your details say

• Name: Darren
• Ford Model: Focus
• Ford Year: 2002

so is it mk2.5?    2002 would be mk1.5

Old focus I had new is 2008 mk2.5

[diz79]

Ok thanks for update , I actually solded the board today where the plug goes to attach to the car. I then re atached to the car. The car started but after few mins I get the same issue with engine malfunction. The difference this time I can turn it off and re start it again. Whereas previously it wouldnt start.

But my obd2 will not connect to the car at all now its a bluetooth one and no lights light up at all on it to indicate its on. I will try my basic ob2 tomorrow.

When I soldered the parts there may be some excess solder on the connectors could this cause a problem?

Do I have to reset anything maybe thats why im getting engine malfunction still but obvs I cureently cant connec tto the car.

I also havent fully put ita back together just enough to read lcd screen etc would this affect it?

 

Thanks everyone.

[Tdci-Peter]

12 minutes ago, diz79 said:

When I soldered the parts there may be some excess solder on the connectors could this cause a problem?

Do I have to reset anything maybe thats why im getting engine malfunction still but obvs I cureently cant connec tto the car.

I also havent fully put ita back together just enough to read lcd screen etc would this affect it?

Excess solder will only be a problem if it can short adjacent pins, or create a short to a track. The tracks are protected by solder resist, which is tough stuff, and will usually prevent short circuit to tracks unless you try quite hard!

I tested my IC without being in its full casing, and just one needle lightly on the fuel gauge to see if it moved ok. It worked fine like that. Just make sure it can't touch any metal (conductive) surface.

Not being able to connect can be a symptom of a wiring fault. The OBD connector (aka DLC) uses exactly the same pair of wires to connect to the ECU as the IC does, ie the HS-CAN bus. It can also be a symptom of a duff OBD2 unit though, of course!

I had to reset all DTCs using Forscan before I could get my car working, but I could connect to the ECU at all times. The break was in the IC for me (2006 car), and the OBD remained connected to the ECU. So your problem sounds different, as I somewhat suspected.

The resistance test is to look for 60 ohms between the DLC pins 6 & 14. A break in the line will typically make it read 120 ohms. There is a 120ohm terminating resistor at both ends of the bus, one in the IC, one in the ECU.

[diz79]

RIght I managed to get some of the solder off as some of the connections ended up being together with the solder. Now its working perfectly the only problem I have now is the diognostic connector is still not working, does anyone noe how to fix this or where on the board it is?

[Tdci-Peter]

50 minutes ago, diz79 said:

the only problem I have now is the diognostic connector is still not working, does anyone noe how to fix this

It really is just a connector. It gets +12v from F107 in the PJB (Passenger fusebox) to pin 16. Earths are on pins 4 & 5. The HS-CAN bus is on pins 6 and 14 (that is the bus that goes from IC to ECU). The MS-CAN bus is on pins 3 and 11 (that is the bus that goes from IC to BCM, aka GEM or PJB). That is all there is to it.

The +12 is used by adapters to power them up, and all diagnostics take place over the HS-CAN bus (mostly) or the MS-CAN bus (Ford specific systems only).

Note: A CAN bus is physically just a twisted pair of wires that runs from one terminus to another terminus via a number of intermediate "bus stops". The clever stuff is in the modules connected to it. But the DLC has no electronics, just the connector.

[isetta]

Do the resistance test on pins 6 and 14 of the obd socket. And check the voltage on the other pins (Peter has said which pin is which) we don’t know if failure to read codes is down to no power supply at the socket or problem on the canbus.  I don’t know which pins you accidentally bridged when soldering ic but powering it up with any pins bridged may have caused damage to something. Having soldered one myself I know it’s quite small and easy to do wrong just from hand shaking. If anyone else reads this before soldering I would recommend checking with magnifying glass before reassembly. A solder sucker is a hAndy thing to have in your soldering kit

[mjt]

2 hours ago, isetta said:

A solder sucker is a handy thing to have in your soldering kit

These can be a bit violent on delicate circuitry in my many years experience. I find solder wick is a safer option in many situations and brake cleaner solvent on a folded paper towel is very good for cleaning off excess flux.