WireyWhenWet

If this doesn't confuse you..

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I am absolutely baffled with this one..

2009 Ford Focus Zetec 1.6 Petrol.

Just recently prior to doing a full service (Myself, so I know what was done),the EML would blink on occasion when the car would be running steady at say 1500 rpm on 30-40mph roads. The returned code was always P0300, Multiple/Random Cylinder Misfire. <The light would not remain lit, but the car would NOT seem to be misfiring>

Following a full service, upgrade to new coil pack, updated HT leads, iridium plugs, fresh oil and cleaned filter (K&N), the problem still exists, but has been getting ALOT worse in a matter of about two weeks.

I now have the same issue, but at any speed and RPM, and under accel/decelleration. It even does it now when idling, and has even blinked without the engine running, reporting the same code..

Heres the scary bit. Two days ago, the same happened and it will do this a few times per trip without fail, however this time when turning specifically right, sharply into a junction or to do a turn in the road, the engine shuts off completely. No shudder, no stall, no lockup, just running, then not running. Of course this is worrying as I lose brakes, and steering, and lights if on.

This occurred a few times in the past few days and I can't put my finger on why.

Finally, these two days when it has cut out, it usually starts up whilst rolling with a turn of the key but in the past 72 hours it's also occasionally really struggled to start and it turns over but almost as if no spark or fuel. Theres just no kick to it, but then give it 5 and its firing up first turn.

Code always returns P0300, but has now today also returned P0336 - Powertrain
Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Range/
Performance

Can anyone advise?

 

My thoughts are here initially fuel pump, due to the random 'misfire' reports, and the struggle to kick in.

I also suspected the power steering pump, as the steering has gotten heavier in these past couple of weeks or so as well, but I'm unsure if that's just me.

Second could be the cluster itself having a bad earth, I've never had an issue with it until about a month ago and afaik it's never had any fixes for the common soldering fault.

Thirdly, based on the code, P0336, could it be the CPS? I know they throw a bunch of oddities up when they act up.

 

*Bonus fault*

Today it's also actually misfired during a run at about 40, pushing the car 2nd to 3rd I replicated the same issue, but these times it's actually either cut out, or I've lost the rev-guage as it freezes and drops to 0 rpm until a restart.

I don't think I have a ground fault elsewhere and I have triple checked all connectors I can on the pumps/plugs/rail/MAF/etc.

My daily commute is a 30mi round trip so this is a little more concerning than I'd like to admit!

So erm yeah.. if this one doesn't stump you I don't know what will! Any suggestions at all would be very much appreciated.

 

Cheers guys!

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I had something similar on a '00 mk 1. Engine would cut out turning left, scary as hell on a busy roundabout! 

I think it was a fuel sensor although this is going back 8+ years ago now.

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Just now, Pokelet said:

I had something similar on a '00 mk 1. Engine would cut out turning left, scary as hell on a busy roundabout! 

I think it was a fuel sensor although this is going back 8+ years ago now.

100% with the roundabout thing.. I've never cacked myself as much when I went out before a truck! X__X

I'll give it a check, it's just so damn strange. I know my Focii, and this is just odd.

Cheers for that!

- As always, any other suggestions always appreciated!

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Couple of thoughts for you:

Because the problem is acute when you turn - it struck me that it may be due to centrifugal force dislodging gunge in the fuel system which otherwise settles to the bottom, turning forces cut off fuel flow enough to affect running then settles when car at rest and allows you to run engine - Because the effect is so sudden I would look nearer the engine for the problem (if it is fuel) therefore my first port of call would be the fuel filter - cheap and easy fix on most cars. Don't know the specifics of your vehicle but it should be readily accessible for inspection. Failing that the rest of the fuel delivery system will need to be eliminated from the search.

You also mention a fault code for a sensor - This short guide to testing Crankshaft sensor with a multimeter may be of help to you - Test Crankshaft Sensor (the website is nothing to do with me just nice and simple)

I have also attached a pdf copy of the sensor tests shown on the link

HTH :thumbsup:

Article - Camshaft Sensor Testing.pdf

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I have seen these exact symptoms several times before on 1.6 Zetec S(E) / Duratec engines that had excessive axial end play of the crankshaft because of a worn crankshaft axial bearing. In sharp corners (roundabout) the crankshaft slides out of reach or in contact with the crankshaft position sensor. If this happens the engine cuts out.

You should start checking the axial end play of the crankshaft to rule out a defective crankshaft axial bearing. If the end play is out of tolerance the engine is basically scrap. If the end play is well within tolerance you can proceed further diagnosing the problem.

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2 hours ago, Westville said:

Many many thanks - very useful, and will check. Alot is pointing to different stuff and I can form a big argument for this.. Cheers!

 

39 minutes ago, JW1982 said:

I have seen these exact symptoms several times before on 1.6 Zetec S(E) / Duratec engines that had excessive axial end play of the crankshaft because of a worn crankshaft axial bearing. In sharp corners (roundabout) the crankshaft slides out of reach or in contact with the crankshaft position sensor. If this happens the engine cuts out.

You should start checking the axial end play of the crankshaft to rule out a defective crankshaft axial bearing. If the end play is out of tolerance the engine is basically scrap. If the end play is well within tolerance you can proceed further diagnosing the problem.

So this actually makes a big bit of sense here... Everything that has happened can be associated with axial or jerking motions; with the expcetion of the EML popping up basically whenever it wants to report a misfire (That doesn't feel to happen..).  I'll have a nosey at that for sure. Appreciate it!

 

- Update of the morning, a good run in to work with the exception of a fairly pacey sweeping downhill left, to uphill where in the dip the EML, oil and batt lights flickered as it jumped about for a good 3 or 4 bunny-hops like a proper misfire-stall before picking up again.. No fault code.

 

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On 8/12/2019 at 5:26 AM, Westville said:

Well, this is the one! I can confirm for anyone with this issue on the future, it was indeed the CPS, and it had basically worn away at the end of the sensor itself by being ground off by the teeth inside the engine casing. There is a plate that the sensor bolts on to on the 1.6 petrol model which should be solidly in place, but somehow on mine it happened to have worked it's way free of its mount, thus sending the sensor into the teeth.

I swapped it out not realizing the tolerances were that bad, and shredded the new one, but luckily enough not bad enough for it to become unusable.

For the time being I have welded the plate tight-up to the casing with quick-steel, and shimmer out the sensor for the time being until further dismantling and time allows.

 

Many thanks to all here, @Mods, I realize I have posted this same answer in my other topic, but I'm going with the basis that the two could be separate issues to someone, one to check the CPS and one to 'fix' the mounting issue if it comes up on anyone in the future. Hope this helps someone in years to come! 👍

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