guy woodbridge

Fuel additive codes

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Posted (edited)

HI there have plugged in and got a couple of codes off forscan. have had the dashboard engine malfunction warning come on.

codes are p1922-60, p2585-61. Looks like eolys fluid issue? had this filled up just over a year ago so am a bit suprised. Is it easy for me to check the level of the fluid?

My car is a ford focus (2010) cc3 2L diesel.

If anyone can help then would really appreciate it!

Thanks from, Guy.

 

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Edited by guy woodbridge
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22 hours ago, guy woodbridge said:

think mainly would like to know where to look to see if the fluid is full or empty?

thanks again

I suspect you'll have no choice other than to work through the whole list of PIDs on Forscan to see if any sound about right.  I'm lead to believe that the DPF system essentially has a "counter" that's incremented every time you fill up with fuel and when you hit a certain figure the ECU treats the fluid/tank as empty.

 

If the garage that previously refilled the fluid didn't reset the counter it could explain the current behaviour.  Thankfully my 1.8 TDCi never had a DPF so it's not something I've had to worry about.  It's definitely something you need to get sorted as a priority because DPFs don't take long to block if they can't regenerate when they need to (or at all).

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Ok its been to garage. They have filled the tank but cant clear the codes etc. I have since had it on forscan. Have used the refill program & the priming program. I have also cleared the codes. However, they keep coming back. I am now at a loss! Anyone have an idea?

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Have you got ELMConfig?  You can check the level on there to see if the car 'thinks' it's still empty.

I'm not sure if the plug for the eolys tank is accessible or not, but if it is I'd be checking that for any damp or corrosion.  That code would suggest more of a wiring or module fault than a low level fault to me.

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Ill get elmconfig tomorow and have a look. Im not sure. The tank was low and they put in a litre and a bit. It is booked in at the same garage for next Tuesday as they have a car electronics mechanic who can look at it then.

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Is there a guide or has someone done the procedure on forscan? I mean for the eolys filling. Perhaps I have missed a step or done it the wrong way round? Im just thinking as its probably worht e having another go tomorow.

THanks in Advance, you are all really helpful on this forum! 🙂

On 9/5/2019 at 1:36 PM, TomsFocus said:

Have you got ELMConfig?  You can check the level on there to see if the car 'thinks' it's still empty.

I'm not sure if the plug for the eolys tank is accessible or not, but if it is I'd be checking that for any damp or corrosion.  That code would suggest more of a wiring or module fault than a low level fault to me.

may well be Tom! I hope not!

 

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13 hours ago, guy woodbridge said:

Is there a guide or has someone done the procedure on forscan? I mean for the eolys filling. Perhaps I have missed a step or done it the wrong way round? Im just thinking as its probably worht e having another go tomorow.

THanks in Advance, you are all really helpful on this forum! 🙂

may well be Tom! I hope not!

 

It really is as simple as running the procedure to reset the additive counter and then the one to prime the system, can't really go wrong with it.

I have done it for other people but didn't need to on my own car (DPF was removed before the Eolys ran out!) so no videos from me on this one unfortunately.

Did you check the level on ELMC'? 

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Garage have said it is the sensor in the eolys tank which has gone? This is £500 plus vat! They said another option is to map out the warning light for £225. That sounds like a terrible idea?

 

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I assume that £225 is to gut the DPF and then map both that and the additive out.  Still expensive though, my power map with DPF & EGR off only cost £150 at a reputable mapper...  

Anyway, I wouldn't have it mapped out nowadays tbh, too much risk.

I don't think there is a level sensor in the Eolys tank, which is why we have to reset the level manually after a refill.  But if there is, I would think there are loads of Focus' in scrapyards with them still on...

@Tdci-Peter I seem to remember you checking wiring diagrams for an additive sensor before...can't remember the outcome though?

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6 hours ago, guy woodbridge said:

Garage have said it is the sensor in the eolys tank which has gone?

I did originally think there was no sensor, it just relied on dose counting.

But there is an entry in the Ford Workshop Manual site which says the tank has a piezo level sensor built in:

http://workshop-manuals.com/ford/focus_2004.75_07.2004/mechanical_repairs/3_powertrain/303_engine/303-04f_fuel_charging_and_controls_1.6l_duratorq-tdci_(dv)_diesel/description_and_operation/fuel_charging_and_controls_vehicles_with_diesel_particulate_filter_(dpf)/

There is a thread on BBA reman where the conclusion was that there was a sensor:

http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic135765.aspx?utm_source=FordOwnersClub&utm_medium=ForumLinks&utm_campaign=referrals


Also there was a thread on this site that had the same error codes, P1922 (which is the main one) and P2585 (just a request to put the warning light on):

I am fairly sure, after trying to eliminate everything else, the conclusion was that there was a level sensor, and it was faulty.

It is a bit of a pig, it makes for a very expensive fix. Pump, tank and sensor are all one unit it seems. I would try to find out exactly what the garage is offering in this map-out. If it is just the sensor, and the DPF and additive system both keep on working, as long as you top it up every 30k miles or so, then it might be a sensible option.

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They are suggesting mapping out the light and not worrying about the eolys fluid. Thats why I think its a terrible idea. UNless of course the mechanic I spoke to slightly missunderstood what he was told (the suggestion came from a seperate electrics mechanic, who came in to look at my car).

 

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Am I right in thinking although the tank is full i have personally pumped the fluid (could heare the pump going so deffo happened) That no EOlys fluid will be going into thr fuel tank? ALso im guesing the car will only regen naturally (such as motorway driving)?

 

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4 hours ago, guy woodbridge said:

That no EOlys fluid will be going into thr fuel tank? ALso im guesing the car will only regen naturally (such as motorway driving)?

I think the level sensor error is separate from the pumping. It would make sense to keep pumping if the level sensor is known to be not working, especially as fuel with no additive would quickly wreck the DPF. The level sensor is not used to control the dose, that is done via the positive displacement pump. The sensor would be nowhere near accurate enough to measure an individual dose.

The regen system on these cars is not designed to get hot enough to burn off soot that has formed in the absence of Eolys. I suspect the DPF element is not good enough to withstand the full temperature to burn un-modified soot with no catalyst. Later 1.6s use a catalytic DPF element, that can oxidise ordinary (no cerium) soot at a temperature the element can take.

I doubt also if any significant natural regeneration occurs on a motorway. It relies on the regen cycles performed by the ECU. The Eolys is supposed to do its job inside the cylinder as the soot forms, not in the DPF. Once much un-modified soot gets into the DPF, I think it would be very difficult to burn or remove it.

It would, as you suspect, be a terrible idea to disable the Eolys system on a car with a DPF designed for modified soot. The DPF would very quickly block.

If you can determine (eg by listening) that Eolys in still being injected, you can use the car ok. Or even resort to putting the additive in manually from a bottle.  The only concern might be that if the engine warning light is on, this can be an MoT fail now.

 

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Hi all thanks for the really helpful replies. What and how would I be able to listen if eolys is still being injected? To be honest I can live with the engine malfunction on my display (can click it way anyway) But is that an MOT faluire as its not an EML per se?

 

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6 hours ago, guy woodbridge said:

What and how would I be able to listen if eolys is still being injected? To be honest I can live with the engine malfunction on my display (can click it way anyway) But is that an MOT faluire as its not an EML per se?

To be honest, I can not think of any easy way to monitor the injections. I would probably break into the wires from the FACM (control module under the rear seat) to the pump, and monitor the voltage to the pump in some way, but it is not an easy or straightforward thing to do. Also have a good look through the PIDs (values that can be read from the car) in Forscan to see if there is anything that would indicate operation of the system. PIDs based on the level sensor may not work, if based on dose counting then it would help.

In my post above, I did say "if you can determine",  and I was not sure what you meant about "hear the pump going" in your post before that. So I am not sure if that was the dosing pump or not. I suspect the dosing pump would only be audible if you were very close to it, or had a microphone mounted on it (I tried this, with a little success in the end, when searching for a droning wheel bearing).

In the meantime I would resort to manually putting in an additive (Eolys, or JLM PAT fluid which also claims to contain Cerium). Too much additive will do no harm in the short term. It does increase ash content, but it would take quite a long time to have any real effect on that. Lack of any additive will block the DPF much more quickly.

In the longer term, looking at the level of fluid in the tank would tell. I know it is not easy, the basic flaw in the whole system is the cheap and nasty way that Ford hid the whole critical additive system away under the back of the car. Cerium additive was a fairly sensible idea,  but very badly implemented, sadly.

On the MoT front, the wording is:

"Engine malfunction indicator lamp

Turn on the ignition and check that the engine malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) illuminates and then goes off. On some vehicles it will be necessary to start the engine before the MIL goes off.

You need to inspect MIL fitted to diesel vehicles with 4 or more wheels and first used on or after 1 July 2008."

 

That is all the MoT manual says. So it seems to be quite specific to the MIL. But the interpretation by MoT tester may vary, and usually can not be argued with except by having another test by someone else. You could try explaining about it being just a sensor problem, and not affecting the MIL or the DPF itself, to test their interpretation before a test.

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