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Front wipers don’t work, rear does?


Cnrftz
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Hi, I can’t find any descriptions exactly like mine in previous threads so I’m making my own.

i have a 2015 Ford Focus TDCI 1.5

My front windshield wipers won’t work, the rear ones do. When I lift the stalk up literally nothing happens, there’s no clicking noise that can be heard which some people report, I’ve checked the fuses and they all seem fine (F18 fuse), and I’ve disconnected the battery completely to let it reset, nothing works. 

Ive moves the wipers up to a service position and tried to see if they move back on their own an they don’t, they’re just like completely limp. 

Im getting very worried this is going to be an expensive fix, my MOT is due October 15th (of course it is) and I don’t have much money to fork out on repairs, I’m a part time student

does anyone have any idea what this could possibly be, and if so what price tag comes along with it? I’ve read somewhere it could be the entire fuse panel which are £500? 

I cant hear the relay clicking so maybe it’s that? 

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i would check the electrical connector is on the wiper motor and check if there is voltage at that connector

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It has to be either a BCM issue or a switch issue.

Check every fuse not just wipers as something else could be knocking it out.

It can't be a motor issue as MK3 Focus has two motors so you would expect only one to go down at a time.

If the front wipers don't work when you wash the front screen then it's definitely the BCM or a fuse.

If they do work when you wash it's the switch

Check for power at the wiper motors 

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11 hours ago, DaveT70 said:

It has to be either a BCM issue or a switch issue.

Check every fuse not just wipers as something else could be knocking it out.

It can't be a motor issue as MK3 Focus has two motors so you would expect only one to go down at a time.

If the front wipers don't work when you wash the front screen then it's definitely the BCM or a fuse.

If they do work when you wash it's the switch

Check for power at the wiper motors 

20 hours ago, iantt said:

That does indeed sound like a bcm issue( fusebox) 

 

21 hours ago, isetta said:

i would check the electrical connector is on the wiper motor and check if there is voltage at that connector

 

11 hours ago, DaveT70 said:

It has to be either a BCM issue or a switch issue.

Check every fuse not just wipers as something else could be knocking it out.

It can't be a motor issue as MK3 Focus has two motors so you would expect only one to go down at a time.

If the front wipers don't work when you wash the front screen then it's definitely the BCM or a fuse.

If they do work when you wash it's the switch

Check for power at the wiper motors 

Sorry I took so long, I thought I would’ve got email notifications but I didn’t.

today me and my friend took the panel off to look at the motors directly, they’re fine all the wires look okay, it isn’t receiving any power at all. Both motors don’t click, move or make any sound or generate any heat when turning on.

 

when you say BCM issue, what exactly is this? I know my fair share about cars but I’m way out of my depth here.

 

ive checked all of the fuses and they all look fine, I went to Halfords today and literally replaced all of them with the correct voltages and nothing happened. I haven’t checked the interior fuse box but It isn’t linked to the front windshield wipers so it can’t be that can it? 

 

My last guess is the actual fuse box panel, are they expensive? Does anyone have an idea of the cost of this?

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Fuse 18 20amp in battery junction box supplies the power to motors. There a coms wire between the motors, then the left motor has Linbus wire from the bcm ( fuse box in passenger footwell) it's the Linbus wire that commands the wipers to work. 

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26 minutes ago, iantt said:

Have you checked for voltage at the wiper motors? 

 

13 minutes ago, iantt said:

Fuse 18 20amp in battery junction box supplies the power to motors. There a coms wire between the motors, then the left motor has Linbus wire from the bcm ( fuse box in passenger footwell) it's the Linbus wire that commands the wipers to work. 

We didn’t have a multi meter on us, but all of the wires looked fine, nothing looked burnt out or brown, the motors looked like they were in good condition

i thought it would be the coms wire in between, but we couldn’t get at it. I’m guessing this wire would need to be raplced, or the whole BCM but I don’t know if this is a heavy job or not

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Sounds like you need it checking at a garage before spending money on something that may not fix it. 

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You need to check for power at the wiper motors.

BCM is the Body Control Module that controls most of the electrical systems on the car.

The wiper switch just sends a signal to the BCM to operate, the BCM does the work.

That's why I mentioned to wash the screen, if the wipers don't come on when you wash it's not the switch that's at fault.

You do need to start with checking for power at the wiper motors, even if you just use a bulb.

If there's no power its the BCM at fault

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17 hours ago, iantt said:

Fuse 18 20amp in battery junction box supplies the power to motors. There a coms wire between the motors, then the left motor has Linbus wire from the bcm ( fuse box in passenger footwell) it's the Linbus wire that commands the wipers to work. 

 

4 hours ago, DaveT70 said:

You need to check for power at the wiper motors.

BCM is the Body Control Module that controls most of the electrical systems on the car.

The wiper switch just sends a signal to the BCM to operate, the BCM does the work.

That's why I mentioned to wash the screen, if the wipers don't come on when you wash it's not the switch that's at fault.

You do need to start with checking for power at the wiper motors, even if you just use a bulb.

If there's no power its the BCM at fault

I’ve taken it to an electrical auto garage and they’ve confirmed it’s the BCM, but they don’t provide the service to fix it. They’ve gave me a number to ring on their recommendation but what are my options here? 

 

How much will a BCM cost? Could I not scrap one from a car or buy a part from eBay? Do they need to be programmed to the car? 

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You can programme a 2nd hand one from where ever eBay, scrap yard. If you drop the bcm down you will see an engineering number. That's the one you need to find from eBay etc. Then it will be ok to program up. Not sure other than ford who can program the bcm to your car . 

When you do drop the bcm down , check all the connectors for water ingress/corrosion. Could be your washer pump leaking into the bcm causing your problems. 

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On 9/6/2019 at 6:39 PM, iantt said:

You can programme a 2nd hand one from where ever eBay, scrap yard. If you drop the bcm down you will see an engineering number. That's the one you need to find from eBay etc. Then it will be ok to program up. Not sure other than ford who can program the bcm to your car . 

When you do drop the bcm down , check all the connectors for water ingress/corrosion. Could be your washer pump leaking into the bcm causing your problems. 

Ford quoted me £435 to fix it. How do I reprogramme it? Ford have told me they won’t reprogramme a used part if I take it to them, and they will only offer me a new part.

Surely there’s remapping companies that could do it?

i looked at the BCM unit yesterday, it all looks perfectly fine, I never dropped it because I didn’t want to unclamp the wrong thing but I stuck my phone up there and it all looks brand new. 

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13 hours ago, iantt said:

What about the garage who recommended someone?

I called them and he said he could test the BCM out but theres no guarantee he could fix it, he would charge me 45 for this. Ford have discounted my diagnostic to 53 from 106 because its only the wipers so I might aswell get the diagnosis from ford. 

 

I've rang many many remapping companies over the weekend and none of them want to get involved with the BCM, I've seen many youtube videos showing module reprogramming with a VCM cable, FORD IDS and two keys, but nobody can do it for me.

 

Ran out of hope here, I'm just going to have to get some money together and hand it over to ford 

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If this was mine and it turned out to be needing a new BCM I might have been tempted to rewire the wipers from scratch myself even if it meant putting an old school toggle switch on the dashboard. (which would be a lot of hassle but not much cost) . But as it turns out it has a separate motor for each wiper I don't think I could because there is no way I would be able to keep them in sync.  Don't you just hate these electrical problems on modern cars.

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I think first of all you need to find a wiring diagram and confirm that the motors are not meant to have power with ignition - if they're computer controlled then I'd expect them to have power all the time with ignition on.

Edit:

A quick look at the mk3 2011 wiring diagram lists a "Smart wiper Module" but doesn't actually (unless i'm blind) show the wiper motor - maybe the motors contain the modules - and that would make sense with two separate front motors. The Smart wiper Modules have a FULL TIME battery positive supply from Fuse 18 which also powers the washer and some other things. There are no relays (that I can see) between battery and the wiper modules. The main fuse (PF3, 100A) is in the engine fuse compartment or attached to the battery, and if this had blown I would expect other problems to be happening.

The Master module contains a connector with two big (2.5mm, brown/red stripe, and a black wire) wires, and two smaller wires (0.5mm, grey/violet stripe), and the slave module contains two big (2.5mm) wires and a single smaller wire. Both modules get grounded to the left front wheel arch ground, the same as the heated front washer nozzles, via a  black wire.

The rear wiper has a direct power connection via relays, hence it working whilst the front isn't.

Wiring

There is a connection to the BCM, a splice for power, a splice for the LIN, and the two connectors onto the modules to contend with.

The power splice doesn't supply anything else except the two modules, unsure where this is located.

The LIN splice connects to the battery monitoring sensor as well as the BCM.

 

  • Did the wipers originally click from the passenger fuse box when operating?
  • Do the washer nozzles heat up with the ignition on?
  • If you have start stop, does it work?
  • Do you have power at the wiper motors onto any contacts? (Check with meter set to DC voltage, one lead on a good ground point, one lead on the contact)
  • Do you have ground at the wiper motors onto the thick black wires (if present) in the plug? (Check resistance (<200ohm range) to negative cable with battery disconnected to prevent blowing stuff up)
  • Do you have any voltage on the smaller LIN wires, whatever AC/DC voltage? You may find if you have a "Frequency" measurement on your volt meter this will measure the frequency of the traffic vs voltage.
  • With the battery disconnected, what resistance is there between ground and the smaller LIN bus wires at the modules/motors?

If this wiring diagram is correct, if you don't have power at the motors then that is seemingly the problem. Make sure when measuring if you have ground

Sorry for the long post, I got absorbed by the wiring diagram, but hopefully if you read the full post you'll have a better understanding of the system. The wiring diagram I used was the Focus 2011 (MK3) diagram from this forum, page 47.

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9 hours ago, isetta said:

If this was mine and it turned out to be needing a new BCM I might have been tempted to rewire the wipers from scratch myself even if it meant putting an old school toggle switch on the dashboard. (which would be a lot of hassle but not much cost) . But as it turns out it has a separate motor for each wiper I don't think I could because there is no way I would be able to keep them in sync.  Don't you just hate these electrical problems on modern cars.

If it's the same motor spacing as a different car with a standard linkage, you might be able to transplant the whole motor / linkage assembly over and do what you're suggesting!

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1 hour ago, Micro said:

I think first of all you need to find a wiring diagram and confirm that the motors are not meant to have power with ignition - if they're computer controlled then I'd expect them to have power all the time with ignition on.

Edit:

A quick look at the mk3 2011 wiring diagram lists a "Smart Wiper Module" but doesn't actually (unless i'm blind) show the wiper motor - maybe the motors contain the modules - and that would make sense with two separate front motors. The Smart Wiper Modules have a FULL TIME battery positive supply from Fuse 18 which also powers the washer and some other things. There are no relays (that I can see) between Battery and the wiper modules. The main fuse (PF3, 100A) is in the engine fuse compartment or attached to the battery, and if this had blown I would expect other problems to be happening.

The Master module contains a connector with two big (2.5mm, brown/red stripe, and a black wire) wires, and two smaller wires (0.5mm, grey/violet stripe), and the slave module contains two big (2.5mm) wires and a single smaller wire. Both modules get grounded to the left front wheel arch ground, the same as the heated front washer nozzles, via a  black wire.

The rear wiper has a direct power connection via relays, hence it working whilst the front isn't.

Wiring

There is a connection to the BCM, a splice for power, a splice for the LIN, and the two connectors onto the modules to contend with.

The power splice doesn't supply anything else except the two modules, unsure where this is located.

The LIN splice connects to the battery monitoring sensor as well as the BCM.

 

  • Did the wipers originally click from the passenger fuse box when operating?
  • Do the washer nozzles heat up with the ignition on?
  • If you have start stop, does it work?
  • Do you have power at the wiper motors onto any contacts? (Check with meter set to DC voltage, one lead on a good ground point, one lead on the contact)
  • Do you have ground at the wiper motors onto the thick black wires (if present) in the plug? (Check resistance (<200ohm range) to negative cable with battery disconnected to prevent blowing stuff up)
  • Do you have any voltage on the smaller LIN wires, whatever AC/DC voltage? You may find if you have a "Frequency" measurement on your volt meter this will measure the frequency of the traffic vs voltage.
  • With the battery disconnected, what resistance is there between ground and the smaller LIN bus wires at the modules/motors?

If this wiring diagram is correct, if you don't have power at the motors then that is seemingly the problem. Make sure when measuring if you have ground

Sorry for the long post, I got absorbed by the wiring diagram, but hopefully if you read the full post you'll have a better understanding of the system. The wiring diagram I used was the Focus 2011 (MK3) diagram from this forum, page 47.

Hi, a lot of this is out of my depth but I’ll respond where I can. 

 

There was never any clicking that I noticed from the wiper motors even when they were working, but you could definitely hear the buzzing sound of the motors functioning.

The start stop still works, and I don’t have any other electrical problems with the vehicle.

I don’t think the washer jets heat up, I haven’t tested this out. I’m assuming they would just from the heat of the engine though?

When me and my friend took the trim off we didn’t have a multimeter at the time, he didn’t think they were receiving any power though, there was no heat or noise from the motors at all. 

I got lost at the part where you said if there’s no power being received, you’re assuming this is the problem. Do you mean bad wiring or a bad BCM? 

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10 hours ago, isetta said:

If this was mine and it turned out to be needing a new BCM I might have been tempted to rewire the wipers from scratch myself even if it meant putting an old school toggle switch on the dashboard. (which would be a lot of hassle but not much cost) . But as it turns out it has a separate motor for each wiper I don't think I could because there is no way I would be able to keep them in sync.  Don't you just hate these electrical problems on modern cars.

So did you get a new BCM? Did it fix the problem? How much did it cost?

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44 minutes ago, Cnrftz said:

So did you get a new BCM? Did it fix the problem? How much did it cost?

He was theorizing.

45 minutes ago, Cnrftz said:

Hi, a lot of this is out of my depth but I’ll respond where I can. 

 

There was never any clicking that I noticed from the wiper motors even when they were working, but you could definitely hear the buzzing sound of the motors functioning.

The start stop still works, and I don’t have any other electrical problems with the vehicle.

I don’t think the washer jets heat up, I haven’t tested this out. I’m assuming they would just from the heat of the engine though?

When me and my friend took the trim off we didn’t have a multimeter at the time, he didn’t think they were receiving any power though, there was no heat or noise from the motors at all. 

I got lost at the part where you said if there’s no power being received, you’re assuming this is the problem. Do you mean bad wiring or a bad BCM? 

Simply put - the motors get power and a computer signal telling them what to do. On older systems (on the Mk2/2.5), the power to the motors was controlled by relays (hence the "clicking" heard - it happened occasionally that these relays broke, but they were not easily replaceable items). On your car, if the wiring diagram is correct, it doesn't actually have any relays to go wrong.

I thought the heated windscreen/washer jets were standard fit on all Fords - there will be a thin rubber tube and some wiring to your washer jets (if no bonnet liner) visible when you are under the bonnet. You may be able to feel them warm up. This will tell you if a power/ground source is good as it shares some wiring with the wipers (i will have to look at the diagram again to confirm).

If there is no power, or grounds, at the motors (if the modules are in the motors), then this will be the problem according to the wiring diagram. You can't run a motor from a computer signal without power.

If there is power and ground at the motors, but no computer signal (or a damaged/faulty module receiving the correct computer signal), then you will have to look at whether the BCM is sending the right signal to the motors. If signal is reaching the first motor, the first motors module may be damaged and then not sending that signal to the second motor. 

If there is no signal from the BCM, you will need to see if the signal is being pulled down/up by a short to ground/power somewhere (broken/chaffed wire/faulty module), or whether the BCM is actually faulty. You don't want to replace the BCM without being certain that it is the issue, if it's not, it's an expensive mistake.

 

This is all only if the modules are actually present in the motors, if they're a separate item then there will be additional circuitry to consider.

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If you get exactly the same level BCM form the donor car or higher then it will be just plug and play.

You will only need to have the remote keys reprogrammed

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13 hours ago, Micro said:

He was theorizing.

Simply put - the motors get power and a computer signal telling them what to do. On older systems (on the Mk2/2.5), the power to the motors was controlled by relays (hence the "clicking" heard - it happened occasionally that these relays broke, but they were not easily replaceable items). On your car, if the wiring diagram is correct, it doesn't actually have any relays to go wrong.

I thought the heated windscreen/washer jets were standard fit on all Fords - there will be a thin rubber tube and some wiring to your washer jets (if no bonnet liner) visible when you are under the bonnet. You may be able to feel them warm up. This will tell you if a power/ground source is good as it shares some wiring with the wipers (i will have to look at the diagram again to confirm).

If there is no power, or grounds, at the motors (if the modules are in the motors), then this will be the problem according to the wiring diagram. You can't run a motor from a computer signal without power.

If there is power and ground at the motors, but no computer signal (or a damaged/faulty module receiving the correct computer signal), then you will have to look at whether the BCM is sending the right signal to the motors. If signal is reaching the first motor, the first motors module may be damaged and then not sending that signal to the second motor. 

If there is no signal from the BCM, you will need to see if the signal is being pulled down/up by a short to ground/power somewhere (broken/chaffed wire/faulty module), or whether the BCM is actually faulty. You don't want to replace the BCM without being certain that it is the issue, if it's not, it's an expensive mistake.

 

This is all only if the modules are actually present in the motors, if they're a separate item then there will be additional circuitry to consider.

I will test the heated washers out when I finish work, I’ve never read anywhere else that the motors have their own modules in, I don’t think this is the case but what the hell do I know I suppose.

im not savvy with electricity, my friend who I went to see is, it’s just unfortunate he didn’t have his tools with him. I will go back and see him when I can and test the motors out directly to see if they’re receiving power, he doesn’t think they were though.

from what you have said it sounds like it could be something other than the BCM, but I’m definitely getting a diagnoses from Ford before I pay for any parts of repairs. I have a question about the repair process with ford if you have any knowledge on this; if they told me it’s culprit A, they fix the culprit but it doesn’t fix the problem, do I still have to pay for any labour they’ve done in the vehicle or is it their mistake for a misdiagnoses? 

 

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23 minutes ago, DaveT70 said:

If you get exactly the same level BCM form the donor car or higher then it will be just plug and play.

You will only need to have the remote keys reprogrammed

What about security or the PATS system, I thought it was only Ford who could programme keys when it comes to BCM’s, many companies have told me they don’t want to get involved and I’ve never heard anyone say it’s plug in and play if the spec is identical?

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I will test the heated washers out when I finish work, I’ve never read anywhere else that the motors have their own modules in, I don’t think this is the case but what the hell do I know I suppose.
im not savvy with electricity, my friend who I went to see is, it’s just unfortunate he didn’t have his tools with him. I will go back and see him when I can and test the motors out directly to see if they’re receiving power, he doesn’t think they were though.
from what you have said it sounds like it could be something other than the BCM, but I’m definitely getting a diagnoses from Ford before I pay for any parts of repairs. I have a question about the repair process with ford if you have any knowledge on this; if they told me it’s culprit A, they fix the culprit but it doesn’t fix the problem, do I still have to pay for any labour they’ve done in the vehicle or is it their mistake for a misdiagnoses? 
 
If they quote for fixing it, then I'd expect them to fix it. If they only provide an estimate or a quote for fitting a new bcm then you'll potentially need to pay for more work.

I'd go and watch some videos by South Main Auto on YouTube, he's really easy to pick stuff up from and goes through in detail about diagnosing stuff instead of throwing parts at it.

An easy way to find out what the setup is on your car, can you see what wires (size, colour, etc) go to the motors?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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