12v Oil Suction Pump Power Usage

[TomsFocus]

Evening all, 

I'm having a brain ***** here...  How much voltage is an oil pump likely to take from a car battery?  It's for a Golf not a Focus but oil is oil!!  Well, mines mostly diesel thanks to all those failed regens lol...  Around 5 litres and says 0.2l/min so estimate 25 mins use...

I can't work out if it's equivalent to having the radio on or leaving the lights on...

 

[pragmatix]

12 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Evening all, 

I'm having a brain ***** here...  How much voltage is an oil pump likely to take from a car battery?  It's for a Golf not a Focus but oil is oil!!  Well, mines mostly diesel thanks to all those failed regens lol...  Around 5 litres and says 0.2l/min so estimate 25 mins use...

I can't work out if it's equivalent to having the radio on or leaving the lights on...

 

Watts the wattage of the pump.

[iantt]

thats the i fo on my pump, it wont flatten your car battery if thats wjat your concerned about

if in doubt leave the engine running to keep the charge up. lol 😂😂😂😂😂

[Guy Heaton]

I've used a pump, and I usually stick my battery charger on before, during, and for a while after I've run the pump out.

[TomsFocus]

2 hours ago, pragmatix said:

Watts the wattage of the pump.

No idea!  It's a cheap Chinese thing as Lidl haven't had theirs for ages.  Probably similar to Ian's though.

2 hours ago, iantt said:

thats the i fo on my pump, it wont flatten your car battery if thats wjat your concerned about

if in doubt leave the engine running to keep the charge up. lol 😂😂😂😂😂

Haha, excellent idea, should help get all of the old oil out too!!

Tbh I'm still tempted to use a spare battery just in case!!

 

[iantt]

Also the best  way to get oil out quicker is to run engine for a while to warm oil up. Takes about 10 mins to get the oil out my Mondeo.

[TomsFocus]

2 hours ago, Guy Heaton said:

I've used a pump, and I usually stick my battery charger on before, during, and for a while after I've run the pump out.

I've got a charger but it's hassle getting a massive extension out to the car, I will do that in worst case scenario though!

[iantt]

Jesus, unless you have a crap battery to start with, it will be fine. 

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, iantt said:

Also the best  way to get oil out quicker is to run engine for a while to warm oil up. Takes about 10 mins to get the oil out my Mondeo.

Yeah I remembered you saying that a while back so will do that.

Think this pump might be a bit worse than your LIDL one, if it does it in 10 mins I'll be amazed lol.

1 hour ago, iantt said:

Jesus, unless you have a crap battery to start with, it will be fine. 

Well, it isn't a crap battery yet...but if it's original it's done 105k miles and 7.5 years...and many stop-start starts!!  😮

Also, don't suppose you've ever done a fuel filter on a 2.0 TDI VAG?  These have got a lift pump (unlike those ***** Ford's I've been doing lately haha  ) but I'm reading that I'll need to prime it with VCDS!?  Surely I can just flick the ignition a couple of times like on everything else I've had with a lift pump?  I will need to get VCDS out to reset the longlife service interval do it's no massive issue if I need it for fuel filter as well, just seems odd.

[Dee_82]

Wouldn't worry about volts. its the Amps thats important. if your volts are screwed for a 60W pump youll be having bigger problems.

A 60W pump at 12V would be drawing 5Amps. if the battery was good for 10Ah (Amp hours) it would last 2 hours

To complicate things a bit more though, if the battery cant supply the Amps it trades in volts. Thats why an old battery on cranking drops a few volts, a nackard battery may drop so low the electronics go funky and it fails to start.

The pump on the pic above has tmax of 30min, probably because the compressor is made of plastic and itll melt if you run it longer, 60W, 12V, 30 Min, your talking 2-3Amps, theres no link between CCA and Ah which is a bit annoying but if you cant draw a couple of Amps from a full battery then its probably time to get a new one.

[mjt]

7 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

How much voltage is an oil pump likely to take from a car battery?

It's current it'll take from the battery, not volts, and Darren is right, 60W at 12V = 5 Amps. If you reckon it's going to take 25 minutes that'll consume roughly 12 A-h of energy.

[Micro]

 

 

 

[emoji23]

Well, it isn't a crap battery yet...but if it's original it's done 105k miles and 7.5 years...and many stop-start starts!!  [emoji50]

Also, don't suppose you've ever done a fuel filter on a 2.0 TDI VAG?  These have got a lift pump (unlike those ***** Ford's I've been doing lately haha  ) but I'm reading that I'll need to prime it with VCDS!?  Surely I can just flick the ignition a couple of times like on everything else I've had with a lift pump?  I will need to get VCDS out to reset the longlife service interval do it's no massive issue if I need it for fuel filter as well, just seems odd.

 

Does it have an electronic oil pump or is it engine driven? Never heard of an electronic oil pump, and an engine driven one couldn't be primed without turning the engine!

 

I've always had the impression that there will be enough old oil on all the necessary surfaces to protect the engine during startup and idle following an oil change, but others may correct me!

 

 

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[TomsFocus]

12 hours ago, Dee_82 said:

Wouldn't worry about volts. its the Amps thats important. if your volts are screwed for a 60W pump youll be having bigger problems.

A 60W pump at 12V would be drawing 5Amps. if the battery was good for 10Ah (Amp hours) it would last 2 hours

To complicate things a bit more though, if the Battery cant supply the Amps it trades in volts. Thats why an old battery on cranking drops a few volts, a nackard battery may drop so low the electronics go funky and it fails to start.

The pump on the pic above has tmax of 30min, probably because the compressor is made of plastic and itll melt if you run it longer, 60W, 12V, 30 Min, your talking 2-3Amps, theres no link between CCA and Ah which is a bit annoying but if you cant draw a couple of Amps from a full battery then its probably time to get a new one.

Thanks Darren, that's what I was after!  I'd forgotten how complicated all this battery stuff was!

It's not so much about how long the battery will last though...more how long it can drain and then still power the ignition while I use VCDS, the glow plugs and then potentially a few extra cranks before starting depending on how well the fuel filter priming goes...   I guess it's impossible to tell if there's no link between AH and CCA though?  My spare batter is 45Ah so might just use that to be on the safe side.

2 hours ago, Micro said:

Does it have an electronic oil pump or is it engine driven? Never heard of an electronic oil pump, and an engine driven one couldn't be primed without turning the engine!

I've always had the impression that there will be enough old oil on all the necessary surfaces to protect the engine during startup and idle following an oil change, but others may correct me!

That part was for the fuel filter, not the oil filter.  

On old common rail diesels they used to have lift pumps like petrols...switch the ignition on and fuel floods the new filter...  On the mid-2000s Ford/PSA diesels they got rid of the electric tank pumps so you have to manually fill the filter with diesel with a hand pump.  I'm almost certain the 2.0 CR TDI comes with a lift pump...in fact it must do otherwise VCDS wouldn't be able to prime the system, it just seems very odd that it wouldn't automatically run the pump by switching the ignition on.  Only thing I can think of is that it doesn't start the lift pump until you crank the engine, I'll try and listen for the pump whine next time I go out...

[Micro]

That part was for the fuel filter, not the oil filter. [emoji2] 
On old common rail diesels they used to have lift pumps like petrols...switch the ignition on and fuel floods the new filter...  On the mid-2000s Ford/PSA diesels they got rid of the electric tank pumps so you have to manually fill the filter with diesel with a hand pump.  I'm almost certain the 2.0 CR TDI comes with a lift pump...in fact it must do otherwise VCDS wouldn't be able to prime the system, it just seems very odd that it wouldn't automatically run the pump by switching the ignition on.  Only thing I can think of is that it doesn't start the lift pump until you crank the engine, I'll try and listen for the pump whine next time I go out...

Yes, misread that! [emoji23]

Humblemechanic did a fuel filter recently, it should prime if you leave/ fill the canister with diesel and turn the key a few times.

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[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, Micro said:

Yes, misread that!

Humblemechanic did a fuel filter recently, it should prime if you leave/ fill the canister with diesel and turn the key a few times.

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Lol, all those safety warnings around touching diesel (that we literally touch every time we fill up!)..but nothing about having a massive beard that could get caught in everything!  

Diesel isn't anywhere near as dangerous as he makes out...the worst part is the smell!  

It was interesting he said about priming by opening the door though.  I know the petrol Fiesta's do that as the pump is really loud (or just not sound-proofed!).  Can't say I've ever heard the pump on the Golf so will have to listen for it today.  He still seems pretty keen on priming with VCDS as all the videos do, but it's good to know it'll still prime if VCDS fails...mines a dodgy Chinese rep cable so I don't have much trust in it lol.

[Micro]

Lol, all those safety warnings around touching diesel (that we literally touch every time we fill up!)..but nothing about having a massive beard that could get caught in everything! [emoji23]  
Diesel isn't anywhere near as dangerous as he makes out...the worst part is the smell! [emoji38] 
It was interesting he said about priming by opening the door though.  I know the petrol Fiesta's do that as the pump is really loud (or just not sound-proofed!).  Can't say I've ever heard the pump on the Golf so will have to listen for it today.  He still seems pretty keen on priming with VCDS as all the videos do, but it's good to know it'll still prime if VCDS fails...mines a dodgy Chinese rep cable so I don't have much trust in it lol.

I think he's more concerned about the smell sticking around - and quite rightly. The work vans were retrofitted at one point with a cap not dissimilar to fords design. That was fine until you took a right corner hard and the diesel would leak out across into the passenger step and along the side of the van...

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[Dee_82]

9 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Thanks Darren, that's what I was after!  I'd forgotten how complicated all this battery stuff was!

It's not so much about how long the battery will last though...more how long it can drain and then still power the ignition while I use VCDS, the glow plugs and then potentially a few extra cranks before starting depending on how well the fuel filter priming goes...   I guess it's impossible to tell if there's no link between AH and CCA though?  My spare batter is 45Ah so might just use that to be on the safe side.

CCA is what you really need to know but its just not possible to tell without actually testing it. The problem is that a battery can have 70A of available power but due to the temperature and internal structures, chemical variations, that power may or may not be available to anything but a trickle, thats sort of why you can turn your sidelights on and its all good for hours but as soon as you turn on the fans, all bets are off.

its a little like Tescos own brand batteries and Duracell Ultra. In a TV remote, the current draw is so insignificant, it doesn't matter if you use cheap batteries, but in a high current draw, like a heater, fan or even a digital camera, that Tesco battery might not be able to supply power at the required rate. so it appears to die quicker. 

So in short, if the battery is newish and its not bloomin freezing, you should be ok, ive used a car pump for similar lengths of time and never had any bother but if in doubt, just collect it up to a small little sealed lead acid battery. 

[Micro]

@TomsFocus here's OBDEleven with its fuel pump prime function, it starts whining but I didn't let it run too long as I obviously don't need to prime my filter! Although it says not available, the green button toggles it. If you're nearby don't mind popping over if you want to do it this way.

 

[TomsFocus]

9 hours ago, Micro said:

@TomsFocus here's OBDEleven with its fuel pump prime function, it starts whining but I didn't let it run too long as I obviously don't need to prime my filter! Although it says not available, the green button toggles it. If you're nearby don't mind popping over if you want to do it this way.

 

Thanks for the offer, Ted...I'm 200 miles away though if your location on here is still correct!   What do you use for that btw?  Carista dongle?  I've been after something to use with the VAGDPF app as I currently have all diags on laptop which can be a pain.  I must admit, the cheap VCDS has been invaluable so far though, only bought it to activate cruise on the A3 last year, but since then it's done plenty of fault reads and added things like auto-locking on the Golf.  Plus swapping an entire gateway module & adding cruise on a neighbours Mk5...which I was a bit worried about lol!

Made an interesting discovery yesterday though...I couldn't hear the fuel pump prime at all...    First time I got in and immediately realised I always have the fans and stereo come on with ignition so wouldn't have heard it normally.  But switched those off when I parked...came back an hour later, switched the ignition on, and still no pump whine!  😮  Either it's very well soundproofed, or it holds enough pressure not to need priming until it's cranked.  Either way, I'll try VCDS on it as that seems to be the generally approved way.  As said earlier, I'll need to use VCDS to reset the longlife service interval as well (can only reset standard time & distance through dash) so I'll need to take the laptop out anyway.

[TomsFocus]

On 10/17/2019 at 6:03 PM, iantt said:

Also the best  way to get oil out quicker is to run engine for a while to warm oil up. Takes about 10 mins to get the oil out my Mondeo.

Well, I'm utterly flabbergasted...just 6 minutes and 25 seconds to remove 5 litres of oil!! 😮  Where do they get their flow rate figures from!?   I did use a spare battery this time but wouldn't bother next time!  

I'm usually as difficult to impress as Shania Twain but this oil pump honestly has shocked me...would definitely recommend!

[iantt]

I wasn't expecting much when I bought pump either for the price I paid. I now use it at work to do early oil only change due to dpf regens before services are due properly on our cars/vans

 

[TomsFocus]

For those that haven't done it...I made a short video...see if you can spot where it suddenly started flowing quicker than expected lol...

 

 

[Micro]

It's called OBDEleven, it's designed for VAG group cars (I think it does some others too) and has its own app (funnily enough, called OBDEleven).

For the Pro version and dongle it's about £60. If you don't get the pro activation you can't do a few things (like long coding) but believe it's still pretty powerful.

[TomsFocus]

12 hours ago, Micro said:

It's called OBDEleven, it's designed for VAG group cars (I think it does some others too) and has its own app (funnily enough, called OBDEleven).

For the Pro version and dongle it's about £60. If you don't get the pro activation you can't do a few things (like long coding) but believe it's still pretty powerful.

Ah I see, I had heard of OBDEleven but not looked into it.  Farrrr to expensive for me lol!  I'll just stick with VCDS and the laptop lol.

[Micro]

Ah I see, I had heard of OBDEleven but not looked into it.  Farrrr to expensive for me lol!  I'll just stick with VCDS and the laptop lol.

VCDS is expensive if you buy the OG version ;)

I did consider a VCDS dongle but the ability to do stuff from a tablet was really the kicker for me.

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