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Focus 2.0 TDCi - Rough Start and Running


CALLUMLE
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After owning a Mk2 1.8 TDCi Focus for years prior, I have recently purchased a new Focus. It's a 2008 2.0 TDCi Titanium Estate on 100k miles. What attracted me to it was its condition and service history where up to 82k it has full Ford history under one owner. Unfortunately the last 18k (on owner number 2) is undocumented. Testing the car on purchase day though it pulled well, handled well and idled smoothly. It was quite smoky (black smoke) but I was told the car had sat for a while and this was clear from the rusty coating on the brake discs.

The day after buying I decided to stick it through a full service. I can see its already had the timing belt done, so I opted for new brake fluid, oil, filters and a diesel treatment and injector clean. The smoking from the exhaust has got less worse over time and while you can see a little haze at night it's not really noticeable unless under heavy acceleration which is fine.

The issue I'm having though relates to the engine so I'll describe the issue best I can in the hope I can work on some obvious things before going to the garage:

  • This morning I turned the key to crank the engine for around 5 seconds -it struggled before I stopped and tried again when it successfully started. Temperature was 5 degrees C.
  • The idle was a little lumpy and in pulling off the drive the car was a bit hesitant and uneven on the revs despite a steady hold on the throttle pedal
  • During the first 5 mins of driving any real acceleration is hesitant and sporadic although the actual power is there.
  • Once warmed the idle is smooth. The only trouble I have after this point is a random issue while cruising. For example I was sitting at 40mph and the car sometimes seemed to lunge forward a little and show a bit of hesitation. I then tried putting cruise control on but had to switch it off after a minute as it kept lunging forward and felt a bit uneven.
  • The drive is fine most of the time and the power delivery good, it's just the starting and uneven drive I have problems with.

Hope somebody can help point towards some areas to look at. I have checked the MAF sensor and it is clean.

 

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One last post -- I did do a search for this issue and found suggestions I should blank off the EGR valve. I know this is an MOT failure now and I'm not even sure if I have an EGR valve -- didn't the face lift ones have a DPF? When I get the VIN number I'll check the website which apparently tells you this. 

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Cold start issue sounds typical of failed heater plugs especially if ok after engine has warmed up a bit. 

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6 minutes ago, Comares2001 said:

Cold start issue sounds typical of failed heater plugs especially if ok after engine has warmed up a bit. 

Thanks for the reply. I remember changing these on my old 1.8 Focus -- was a pig of a fiddly job. Access was really limited and I remember having to remove tiny little nuts on the end of each plug.

I'll have a look later today (if it's not raining) and see how easy they are to get at. Might be one for the garage if they're stuck out the way somewhere.

As a test I'll cycle the ignition on/off a few times to warm the plugs and see if it makes a difference. 

 

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If you've got a multimeter you can test them in situ as when they fail they go open circuit like a dead light bulb. You really need a proper extra long reach socket to get them out without snapping them especially if they have not been replaced for a long time.

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23 minutes ago, Comares2001 said:

If you've got a multimeter you can test them in situ as when they fail they go open circuit like a dead light bulb. You really need a proper extra long reach socket to get them out without snapping them especially if they have not been replaced for a long time.

I do have a 3' extension bar and multimeter. In truth I have no definitive record of when they were last replaced. There was a major service at 60k which may have covered them, but this was 40k miles ago. I'm erring towards just having the garage do them to be honest.

I'll warm them up tomorrow morning (when it's forecast to be 6 degrees) and see if it makes a difference to the start. Appreciate the heads up. I'll post back for updates in case anyone else has the same issue.

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As an update, we nipped our earlier and in starting the car it died instantly. Started again and it was ok. We drove along for about 2 miles at 30 when the car just lost power, spluttered and died. Restarted and all was absolutely fine — drive was smooth as anything after!

Got to our destination (IKEA 😞 ), ponced about in there for about 30 mins and got back to the car. Started up then died instantly, started again and the revs were rough and spluttery before dying, started a third time and it was spot on. Drive home was faultless, smooth and responsive.

Could still be the glow plugs, I’ll also check the anti-shudder valve, look for any split hoses and possibly change the camshaft sensor. Failing that I think it’s a garage inspection 😢

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I wouldn’t have thought a couple of dead glow plugs would cause this much of a problem unless it was -20c outside. I think you have another problem going on with the car here unfortunately.

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I fear it will be something more drastic. As I say I'll inspect hoses for any splits, replace the camshaft sensor (read it could be thatr) and have the glow plugs checked.

I left for work this morning at 0630. Put the ignition on and left it for 10 seconds, did it again and it started. I set off and it was a little rough so I pulled over, restarted the engine and all was absolutely fine after that.

Appreciate the responses!

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can it not be down to fuel filter I had some think a bit like that but only when I tried to stick my foot down and over take up hills car would cough and miss and some times cut out, and that was down to fuel filter

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6 hours ago, lasthope said:

can it not be down to fuel filter I had some think a bit like that but only when I tried to stick my foot down and over take up hills car would cough and miss and some times cut out, and that was down to fuel filter

Good shout but I had that replaced on Tuesday as part of a full service. Funnily enough it pulls absolutely fine and generally has no problem accelerating once it's warmed up and got past the starting issue. Just takes a few goes to get it started and running okay! 

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DPF? I know that can cause similar issues early on. Have you had a code reader on it?

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Think I might be getting somewhere with this... Drove home earlier from work, car cut out after starting so restarted with a little throttle and was okay. Pulled in at the car parts place and nipped in 5 mins for the Camshaft Positioning Sensor, got back to the car and started it which went well. This time though, there was next to no throttle response and I couldn't move the car. I could tap the throttle and the revs would move from ~800rpm to ~1000 rpm but pushing the pedal any further did nothing -- right to the floor even. Restarted and had the same issue. Restarted again and this time okay. Got home and restarted the engine again with the same issue... no real response from the throttle pedal.

Went into the engine bay and while looking for splits in the pipes, I noticed that the end of (what I presume is) the intercooler pipe was a garbled mess and was folded over on one side with a jubilee clip holding it on. I slid the clip off and around 15-20mm of the pipe fell off. I unfolded the pipe, pushed it up as far is would go and put the jubilee clip on tightly. I also took the air intake temperature sensor out and cleaned all the oil off it. Car started fine after that. Left it and hour and again it started. Real test is tomorrow morning...

This isn't a photo of my engine bay but it's the same engine. The sensor and pipe I'm referring to are attached to this post. The second photo (of the two pipes) shows the pipe I have at the top (plastic?) and the one which seems to have replaced it below (rubber/silicone?)

 

 

727_1.png

s-l300.jpg

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I just changed that bottom pipe on my one last month it had a little spit in but car was running ok still just would not boost full it never cut out just a bit slow off mk in 1st but got pipe done all ok it was about 20quid from eBay

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Not sure if anybody is following this but I'll update anyway. I'm still waiting for the new pipe but since connecting it properly (from its previous poorly-connected state) the car has always started and has been fine to drive. I hope it was just that!

The next issue is blue smoke at start up. When starting from cold there is a cloud of blue smoke for 30-60 seconds. That really could be the glow plugs (will start with the simpler things) so I'll get those changed after I've replaced that hose and see what's what.

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Blue smoke usually means it's burning lubricating oil. At 100k it's possibly getting a bit worn or you may have stuck oil control rings or leaking valve stem seals. If it goes away when warm it's probably not the valves though.

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22 minutes ago, mjt said:

Blue smoke usually means it's burning lubricating oil. At 100k it's possibly getting a bit worn or you may have stuck oil control rings or leaking valve stem seals. If it goes away when warm it's probably not the valves though.

There was oily residue inside the intercooler pipe and on one of the sensors -- would that point towards an issue there? I'm not sure if there should be a light coating of oil anyway for lubrication.One to pencil in on the "investigate later" list so thanks.

As I say the smoke does disappear within 60 seconds and only smokes after that on heavy acceleration.

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think its just norm to find some oil in the intercooler pipe but not much I had some in my pipe when I took it off to clean

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Blue smoke on a petrol is usually burning oil, but with diesel being much closer to oil, that can also cause blue on it's own when not fully burnt.  Dodgy glow plugs would definitely be my next step for that.  

oil in intercooler pipes is totally normal, it comes from the crank breather and builds up over time.

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Okay I'll get the glow plugs booked in for a change. The new intercooler pipe is due to arrive tomorrow so will get it changed when I'm home from work. Fixing the starting issue seemingly caused by that pipe has given me reason for confidence.

Thanks everyone for the help. I'll post updates after getting the plugs changed.

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Again, not my engine bay but similar... is the EGR valve located in this image? My guess is that it is next to the yellow dip stick?

images.jpg

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On 10/28/2019 at 2:51 PM, CALLUMLE said:

Again, not my engine bay but similar... is the EGR valve located in this image? My guess is that it is next to the yellow dip stick?

images.jpg

Not sure where the valve is, but the EGR blank goes at the back of the engine, where the chrome pipe on the right hand side mounts.

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Hi, I've just had a car with this engine and had a few issues with it.

There are 2 sensors in the inlet manifold I'd suggest cleaning them out, but very carefully.

The egr valve is at the back of the engine if you follow the metal pipe from the front to rear of engine.

As mentioned try a code reader if you can.

It could be a loose wire, which I had, faulty sensor or egr valve could be stuck open or closed.

Andy

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Thanks both -- I assumed it was connected to the silver pipe but didn't know which end.

I actually took the car to a diesel specialist today who is very highly-rated and renowned for his knowledge. He started looking at it today and noticed 3 things all relating to air intake including an air sensor. He also thinks it has a DPF (which I doubted based on the Vehicle Tax cost) and he thinks this has been clogged up.

He didn't get chance to look at it properly today but is going to start first thing tomorrow so will report back once I know more. At the moment it does sounds more like a sensor issue or air escaping. Nothing was mentioned about valve seals or leaking oil.

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Morning all, big update if anybody is following...

After nearly a week of investigation at the garage we have managed to get to the bottom of the issue. It turns out that the car does have a DPF present but it was giving static information when the car was running or engine revving. Upon finding the DPF and opening it up, it turns out somebody has smashed up the internals of it and remapped the car's ECU to ignore the resulting codes and warnings. It also turns out a hose connected to this system was split and the inside absolutely full of soot. The glow plugs have also stopped working and may not have been working properly before.

Big mess which results in me needing a new DPF, new hose, remapping the car and new glow plugs. No idea how much this would cost (waiting on a price now) but I feel I'll probably do a big gulp when I see it land in my inbox!

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