Brake fluid change - is flushing the system necessary?

[TomsFocus]

I've snapped a few...but usually on cars 10-20 years old, I wouldn't even think about it on such a new car!!

I find it's not so much the tool used (I have proper 6 sided nipple spanners) but the temperature when doing it.  The lightest touch in cold temps and they just shear straight off! 

In a warm workshop on a newish car I don't even know why they've said it tbh...is it actually a Ford dealer or just a specialist?  Seems very odd for a dealer to turn down a brake fluid change as it's one of their best profit jobs, so quick and easy for them but awkward for a DIY mechanic.

If the nipples do snap, surely they'd be obliged to replace the caliper anyway?  They must be insured for accidents that are no fault of either party?  

 

If worst comes to worst, you can actually bleed calipers through the hose connection, a local mechanic showed me how to do it after snapping 2 on the same car, it was an old car and not worth the cost of new calipers.

[isetta]

many years ago I did a lot of work on motorbikes. they were notorious for bleed screws snapping in calipers. there were generally narrower and used 8mm spanners. before undoing one I would squirt wd40 around and down centre of bleed screw for a couple days (mush easier to get to on motorbike) -     but the main point I am coming to    -  what I would also do is if the bleed screw came undone I would take it right out and put copper grease on the threads. I still do that now, put the copper grease on. I know some of it might be washed away when bleeding but it must still help I reckon. 

[AndyDC]

I agree regards the above advice, and would add a reminder, if it doesn't seem to move with a reasonable force (for the size) then consider trying the other direction to see if that breaks the thread free.

Unfortunately you can't safely use blow torch on bleed nipples as brake fluid is the most flammable substance in the car (petrol needs a ridiculously high temp as provided by the spark, and diesel needs help vaporising). So, when heat is used to free a bleed nipple it's best done off the car.

[TomsFocus]

Petrol vapour is extremely easy to light!!  Don't go waving your blowtorch around the fuel lines...  

Diesel doesn't really burn though.  If you've ever got a Jerry can which you're unsure of, dribble a bit on to a floor tile and light it with a lighter.  If it's petrol it catches straight away, if it's diesel it doesn't catch at all.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

Petrol vapour is extremely easy to light!!

👍 When I got my first motor bike I remember my Dad conducting a little "experiment" to show me how dangerous even just fumes were. To cut a long story short, he nearly blew us both up and we were lucky to escape with badly singed hair and clothing!😀

[AndyDC]

To put my statement into context, petrol will boil away very easily, so although a flame is a problem, getting it hot isn't as there's a large range of temperature before it would autocombust, and it boiling away will help keep the temperature down, Brake fluid will need a lot more heat to make it boil away, but will autocombust about the same temp as petrol, so there's less safety margin.

But, yes I take on board comments about petrol vapour being easy to ignite. I should have given context, before anybody thought about trying to extinguish a lighted match in petrol.

[Jusitne]

7 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

I've snapped a few...but usually on cars 10-20 years old, I wouldn't even think about it on such a new car!!

I find it's not so much the tool used (I have proper 6 sided nipple spanners) but the temperature when doing it.  The lightest touch in cold temps and they just shear straight off! 

In a warm workshop on a newish car I don't even know why they've said it tbh...is it actually a Ford dealer or just a specialist?  Seems very odd for a dealer to turn down a brake fluid change as it's one of their best profit jobs, so quick and easy for them but awkward for a DIY mechanic.

If the nipples do snap, surely they'd be obliged to replace the caliper anyway?  They must be insured for accidents that are no fault of either party?  

 

If worst comes to worst, you can actually bleed calipers through the hose connection, a local mechanic showed me how to do it after snapping 2 on the same car, it was an old car and not worth the cost of new calipers.

It’s a Ford dealer but to be fair I asked them about the risk of them snapping.  They want to do the work but they messed up my service by overfilling the engine oil and I think the engine now sounds louder and the exhaust seems to be emitting more smok but the mornings are colder so it could be due to that.  

I’m no mechanic so wont be attempting to do any DIY myself.  

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, Jusitne said:

It’s a Ford dealer but to be fair I asked them about the risk of them snapping.  They want to do the work but they messed up my service by overfilling the engine oil and I think the engine now sounds louder and the exhaust seems to be emitting more smok but the mornings are colder so it could be due to that.  

I’m no mechanic so wont be attempting to do any DIY myself.  

Ah ok, I see.  

It's up to you then really, as you can see from the replies some of us would, some wouldn't. 

All I can say is that it is recommended at 2 yearly intervals and obviously yours has even been tested as having a low boiling point.  If you're keeping the car, it makes sense to have it done sooner rather than later.  The longer they're left, the more chance of them seizing.  If you're intending to change car soon, it may not be worth the hassle and risk.

 

As for the oil being overfilled, that's a common issue on the 1.0EB.  There's even a Ford approved 'excess' limit above the max level.

[Jusitne]

Do you know what the approved excess level is in litres?  I must say the engine appears to have developed an additional sound after the service (which included a spark plug change) and the car appears to go faster, especially uphill and seems to continue to drive when I take my foot off the accelerator.   Not sure if these are good things.

i’m intending on keeping the car but dont think i will give that particular dealership the fluid change work.

[TomsFocus]

2 minutes ago, Jusitne said:

Do you know what the approved excess level is in litres?  I must say the engine appears to have developed an additional sound after the service (which included a spark plug change) and the car appears to go faster, especially uphill and seems to continue to drive when I take my foot off the accelerator.   Not sure if these are good things.

i’m intending on keeping the car but dont think i will give that particular dealership the fluid change work.

Don't know in litres but you're allowed up to 4mm over max on the dipstick on this engine.

It might just be placebo but if the air filter was dirty before, it can sound a bit louder with a clean one...assuming that was changed at the service!  Plugs might also make it feel a little faster if they were worn.  The only concern there would be the hanging revs when you lift the pedal, but maybe it's always been like that and you're just more aware of it now.

[Jusitne]

7 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Don't know in litres but you're allowed up to 4mm over max on the dipstick on this engine.

It might just be placebo but if the air filter was dirty before, it can sound a bit louder with a clean one...assuming that was changed at the service!  Plugs might also make it feel a little faster if they were worn.  The only concern there would be the hanging revs when you lift the pedal, but maybe it's always been like that and you're just more aware of it now.

Was 10mm overfilled.  Air filter was changed (however car is steaming up internally - did not do this before service as often).  Spark plugs were changed during service.  The hanging revs weren’t there before- as soon as i lifted pedal the car would slow very quickly  - now it keeps going!  Could this mean something?

Garage drained oil taking the level to the max on dipstick.  A week later i checked it and the level was between the min and max - took it back in and they added 250ml oil and told me keep eye on it.   I’ll check level tomorrow.  Not sure if its burning oil - cant see any oil on driveway but had so much rain lately hard to see / check.

[Ian318]

22 minutes ago, Jusitne said:

Was 10mm overfilled.  Air filter was changed (however car is steaming up internally - did not do this before service as often).  Spark plugs were changed during service.  The hanging revs weren’t there before- as soon as i lifted pedal the car would slow very quickly  - now it keeps going!  Could this mean something?

Garage drained oil taking the level to the max on dipstick.  A week later i checked it and the level was between the min and max - took it back in and they added 250ml oil and told me keep eye on it.   I’ll check level tomorrow.  Not sure if its burning oil - cant see any oil on driveway but had so much rain lately hard to see / check.

If car steaming up condensation ,maybe water getting in like a leak or something, also check pollen filter , have you give your car a good run, get everything up to temp  and then do a visual check of things  like signs of oil  after returning .

[TomsFocus]

The engine air filter might make the car sound louder. But it's the pollen filter that could cause the inside to steam up more, though that's mostly caused by the cold, damp weather at the moment, I even had water beading on the inside of my screen recently!  Also if you're using the air con, that leaves damp inside the car when you park which will inevitably end up as condensation on the screen next time you get in if it's cold.  Also worth checking none of the carpets are damp as suggested above, as that could indicate a leak through a door seal or similar.

The hanging revs is weird.  It's possible they might have updated the ECU software during the service to make a smoother drive.  

The 1.0EB oil level is extremely difficult to get right as it takes so long to drain down after switching the engine off, so the level on the dipstick isn't often accurate.  That's why they allow some excess.  When you check it, make sure it's on been left for several hours since running, ideally over night.

[TFORD]

To Justine,

Same spongey brake thing hit on me last week - frightening alright. I've been researching and find that ABS sensors etc, also contribute to this issue - without necessarily showing alarm bells on your dashboard lighting. Hava a look at video below - sorry, he's a Yank.....but you should be able to understand him.

ve