Limp Home :/

[jonj1611]

Just bought the car on Tuesday and already got problems, it did come with a warranty so will be contacting them Monday but trying to get an idea of what is going on.

It's a 2009 Ford Focus Zetec S with the 1.8 diesel engine 115bhp.

Was driving home earlier and the car felt lumpy when accelerating, worse when accelerating hard then it just started beeping, the traction control light on and engine malfunction appeared on the display. Car then went into limp home made, couldn't get more than 1500rpm out of it, luckily I was just down the road from home so got it on the drive. Put the code reader on it and no codes recorded.

Started it again and same thing, engine fault and the fans were on full blast.

Started it again 5 mins later and it started fine, had a drive around the block and it seemed to drive ok but there is a definite lumpiness or a miss you could describe it as when accelerating hard.

Any ideas? Bit of a loss, normally rely on a code reader but without codes no idea where to start looking

[Tdci-Peter]

4 hours ago, jonj1611 said:

engine malfunction appeared on the display. Car then went into limp home made, couldn't get more than 1500rpm out of it, luckily I was just down the road from home so got it on the drive. Put the code reader on it and no codes recorded.

Have you tried Forscan? It is Ford specific and can find codes in many cases where standard code readers fail.

Engine cooling fan on full suggests either overheating, or a faulty ECT (cylinder head temperature sensor.) But that is by no means a firm diagnosis!

[jonj1611]

Thanks for the reply, we only got the car Tuesday so haven't really looked at anything like that, but I will now!

The cooling fan seems to come on when the car is saying engine malfunction, car temp on the guage reads as normal but of course a faulty sensor could cause all sorts of issues.

The lumpy acceleration is a concern, problem is having read through various posts could be anything, going to give the garage I bought from a chance to fix it but their warranty isn't worth the paper its written on now that I have actually read it properly. Honestly didn't think I would have issues after having the car 4 days. If not Ford might be the way to go, but I will certainly look at Forscan first, think I need a cable for it?

[williamweb]

9 hours ago, jonj1611 said:

Thanks for the reply, we only got the car Tuesday so haven't really looked at anything like that, but I will now!

The cooling fan seems to come on when the car is saying engine malfunction, car temp on the guage reads as normal but of course a faulty sensor could cause all sorts of issues.

The lumpy acceleration is a concern, problem is having read through various posts could be anything, going to give the garage I bought from a chance to fix it but their warranty isn't worth the paper its written on now that I have actually read it properly. Honestly didn't think I would have issues after having the car 4 days. If not Ford might be the way to go, but I will certainly look at Forscan first, think I need a cable for it?

Many on here invest in a tunnelrat  modified elm327 module.Look it up it’s Ford specific 👍

[Phil21185]

Take it back to the seller for a refund and get a different car. Doesn't matter what their warranty says, the car is not fit for purpose. 

You're opening yourself up to huge problems down the line and in my opinion you're best off getting out of it, now!

Having said that, I think there's some legislation saying you have to give them 3 chances to fix it before you can refuse the car?! Am I remembering that correctly or have I just invented that?

If you're sticking with a Ford though, definitely get an ELM cable. Not only save you loads in the long run for any future code readings, but also very helpful in any mods or upgrades you might like to do!

 

[Botus]

has it got petrol or diesel in the tank

[alexp999]

1 hour ago, Phil21185 said:

Take it back to the seller for a refund and get a different car. Doesn't matter what their warranty says, the car is not fit for purpose. 

You're opening yourself up to huge problems down the line and in my opinion you're best off getting out of it, now!

Having said that, I think there's some legislation saying you have to give them 3 chances to fix it before you can refuse the car?! Am I remembering that correctly or have I just invented that?

If you're sticking with a Ford though, definitely get an ELM cable. Not only save you loads in the long run for any future code readings, but also very helpful in any mods or upgrades you might like to do!

 

It used to be 3 chances to repair, now it’s only 1. 

[TomsFocus]

There were a batch of dodgy injectors in the 1.8TDCi around 2008/9 which can cause lumpy running and limp mode but by 10 years old I'd expect them to have been replaced.  Would also be worth checking the fuel filter isn't blocked up, it'll be more noticeable in cold temps as the diesel waxes inside it.

The fans running are definitely an odd symptom though, that's usually a sign of DPF regen issues but the 1.8 doesn't have a DPF.  Are you sure it's a 1.8 and not a 1.6?  

As others have said, it'll need Ford specific diags to pick up the codes if there aren't any on the OBD side.

[Tdci-Peter]

10 hours ago, jonj1611 said:

look at Forscan first, think I need a cable for it?

One option: https://tunnelrat-electronics.fwscart.com/

Software download:http://forscan.org/download.html

A useful guide: https://www.fordownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=58645

Like Tom says, there are many causes for lumpy running, from fuel filter to injectors. But on the 1.8TDCI there are not so many cases of the fan running at full speed for no good reason.

If the car has been unused at a dealer's for some time, it could have had summer diesel in it. It takes quite a lot of heat and time to remove the waxes that form in cold weather.

To replace the 1.8TDCI with a car with similar capabilities at a similar price would not be easy. More modern cars have even more complex electronic stuff to go wrong, and DPFs do shorten the life of a car, it is often not worth the cost of replacing it. The 1.8TDCI can be a very reliable and long lasting engine. So I think it is worth persevering far a while at least, until it is confirmed whether the problem is too expensive to fix.

While at the dealer, you ought to get some evidence of when the timing belts were last done. There are 2 on a 2009 version, upper and lower, and a lot of dealers and some mechanics do not seem to be aware of this. That could be a deciding factor. 

 

[jonj1611]

Thanks for all the replies, its strange as I have notifications turned on and the correct email address but not receiving any notifications!

Yes its definitely a 1.8 🙂 Says on the logbook 🙂 And check with pics on the net lol.

Got this car as I know it doesn't have a dpf and after the last diesel I had an all the problems that dpf caused I definitely didn't want another.

I contacted the dealer who have said to contact one of their garages locally to me and they will look at the car.

I have to be honest I don't want to return the car if i can help it, its a lovely car, 97,000 miles which is ok for the age, looks incredible, I am sure its something that can be sorted.

As for the fan I just assumed it came on when the engine malfunction was on the dashboard to protect the engine, does it not normally come on when engine malfunction is shown?

I have ordered a Forscan from the above link.

I do not know how long the dealer has had the car but I know it was in a field where they store all their cars.

I checked the air filter and that was filthy so can only assume that it hasn't had a service in a while so the fuel filter could well be blocked.

I did try the key thing where you hold something in to get codes but it only gave 2 codes and they seemed to be pretty generic reading through the threads on here, some E code and D code I believe which lots of people seem to get.

It has £20 of diesel in the tank 🙂

[Tdci-Peter]

1 hour ago, jonj1611 said:

does it not normally come on when engine malfunction is shown?

It hasn't done so on my car. I have only had a few DTCs: EGR ones (dodgy EGR, eventually I replaced the EGR actuator unit for about £50), and Turbo underboost (broken pipe to the MAP sensor, zero cost fix), the fan has not run because of them. Oh, plus the infamous 2006 faulty dash problem, which caused dozens of DTCs, but the engine would not start with this one, let alone run the fan!

E & D codes on the dash test are actually U DTCs, D900xx is U1900, which is a very common one, though it can indicate a bad electrical connection in the CAN bus if it happens too often.

The notification problem does seem quite common on here. I get daily emails with new content from followed threads, but no email notifications. I have not played with the settings though, just ignored them!

 

 

[jonj1611]

The codes were D900 and E510.

Not sure why the fan came on then, the engine wasn't even warm really, had only done 2 miles.

[johnH]

Give it a thorough service. Get all filters, fluids and brakes replaced. Chuck some of that Shell vpower diesel in and maybe some redex. Give the egr a scrub then take it for a blast down a dual carriageway for a good half hour there and half hour back. If safe, do 70mph on dual carriageway/motorway in 4th to keep it high (dont red line). Will clean the engine out of any junk and recharge the battery which can cause random electrical issues.

Further things to consider inspecting and changing is aux belt and timing belt and pulleys.

[jonj1611]

I will defintely get the belts done, anyone know the average cost of getting the belts changed? Didn't realise there was two.

I have all the service parts ready to go. Just need to find something to prime the diesel filter with.

Car is in the garage today due to me not having it long they are going to fix the problem so thats one thing anyway

[Tdci-Peter]

11 hours ago, jonj1611 said:

Didn't realise there was two.

I have all the service parts ready to go. Just need to find something to prime the diesel filter with.

Ford, in its infinite wisdom, changed the design in about 2007. From the long lasting duplex chain to a belt running in the engine oil, between the crankshaft & fuel pump. Then the upper belt (unchanged) runs from fuel pump to camshaft. The only sensible service interval for the lower belt is the same as the upper one. Reading one topic did suggest that Ford changed back to the lower chain around 2009, but I had not seen any confirmation of this. If you or your dealer can access Etis, it might be possible to confirm it for your individual car.

The upper belt cost me  £203 (inc VAT) in 2011, done by a reliable but not particularly cheap independent garage. I would guesstimate about half as much again for the pair, most of the labour is common to both. And I suspect labour rates have risen since 2011! Mine is due again, possibly next year.

The safest way to prime the filter is to use a good bulb or handpump from before the filter. It is crucial to avoid getting even invisible dirt particles into the HP pump or injectors. Also some people still slacken off HP unions. On a very high pressure common rail diesel this is both risky (from dirt or leaks) and not needed. Once fuel is pushed into the HP pump, it will self prime the HP parts of the system.

The 1st time I tried it in 2012, I knew nothing about it, and took 2 days to get it going again! In 2016, with the kit, it got it running in a couple of minutes, on the 2nd try.

Various info about it in this thread:

 

[jonj1611]

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate that, will have a read through that thread and see what the current rate is of getting those belts done.

[jonj1611]

Just ordered the elm327 USB Auto Switch from Tunnelrat 🙂

[jonj1611]

Update : Went in the garage yesterday, they said they found some old codes, probably the ones I mentioned above but couldn't find anything wrong with the car. They said they cleaned the injectors and "other adjustments". Picked the car up, put diesel in, 2 mins down the road and back into limp home mode, some engine malfunction warning on the dashboard.

My son was driving, he couldn't recall if the fan was on but symptoms are :

Limp home mode active
Engine Malfunction warning on display
Traction Control light on

Gave it 10 mins and it started fine and drove home ok which was only 10 mins from where it stopped.

Back into the garage tomorrow. If they don't fix it this time car will be going back

[jonj1611]

Still waiting for the device to turn up to scan the car, but tried the dash thing and no codes found.

[jonj1611]

Garage are putting in 2 new injectors will see if that fixes it!

[WireyWhenWet]

To expand on TDCI-Peter, do you know if the fuel filter has ever been changed? There seems a few cars on here lately with similar symptoms of a bad filter. When it gets to a point of having fuel pressure codes then it's almost guaranteed to be that, but up until then the car can go without code for a short time. Hopefully its simpler, and merely a bad fuel batch - Uncommon but it happens!

[jonj1611]

I don't know to be honest, from the state of the air filter it is unlikely. I think when they change the injectors they are going to do the fuel filter as well, however if  they don't I will change it myself. Got to do the oil change next week anyway so might as well do it all in one.

Just need to find out where I can get a hand pump from and the right size tubing!

[jonj1611]

Is it a 10mm pipe required for the diesel filter outlet does anyone know?

[Tdci-Peter]

12 hours ago, jonj1611 said:

Is it a 10mm pipe required for the diesel filter outlet

The tube I used was 8mm inside dia, & 11 mm outside. It fitted over the filter inlet port, and could be pushed into the pipe connector that was on that port. I think the filter outlet has the same size tubing, but I did all the priming on the filter inlet side, and through the filter.

Strange that they have suddenly decided to change 2 injectors. Not a cheap thing to do just on suspicion, I assume they read some codes, or did a leak off test. I hope they are aware of the care needed to avoid getting dirt or swarf in the pipes.

[jonj1611]

Just got the car back and all 4 injectors have been changed and car feels a completely different drive alltogether, feels incredibly smooth unlike the lumpy engine we had before, can definitely feel the difference.

I didn't ask what tests they run, maybe they looked a bit more into it this time around, 4 injectors I know weren't cheap so can only assume they did some proper diagnosis.

And thanks will get myself some pipe and a pump though I am going to ring them Monday just to check they haven't changed it as part of doing the injectors.