Hi,

Recently I had 130,000 mile service carried out on my Ford Focus Mk2 1.6TDCi Titanium by Ford. I had a few things that I wanted them to check which involved taking the car on a road test. Unfortunately they were unable to do this due the mechanics commenting on a 'noisy' engine. They have offered to inspect the engine for £78 to try and find the source of the problem.

My diesel engine has covered over just over 130,00 miles so I would expect it to be a little louder than if it was brand new. I replaced the timing and auxiliary belts in the summer (along with the usual pulleys, idlers & water pumps). I used the Haynes guide, locked everything in place and followed the instructions. I turned the engine over manually 10 times before firing it up and everything seemed ok. I should say that I am not a professional mechanic, just an enthusiastic DIYer so I could have easily made a mistake without knowing it...

I have also recently replaced the DPF, but the service came back green for the exhaust system so I don't think this causing the issue.

The vehicle has covered 6000 plus miles since carrying out these repairs, so if I did set the timing up incorrectly the damage will have been done by now. I use FORScan to check regularly for error codes (non for the engine have popped up) and the average MPG is sitting at around 50. I have also sent a sample of my engine oil to Millers Oils Ltd for analysis (http://www.millersoils.co.uk/services/oil-analysis).

Here is a link to a YouTube clip I made of the noise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOFbH5Wdu8g and below a decibel meter reading picture. I would really appreciate the forums thoughts on this and opinions of whether people think it is noisy and if so what could be causing it?

Thanks for your time!

Stophen.

They all sound awful on video, here's mine...

Yours does sound a bit tappy though, definitely enough oil in it?  It's possible timings slightly off but it can't be out by much if you haven't noticed in the last 6k!

Hi @TomsFocus or is it John McClane?

Yeah, yours does sound smoother than mine, what's your mileage?

I assume the oil is correct as it's just been serviced but will check later.

Any idea what could causing the tapping?

Cheers, Stophen.

While searching for those videos I found the one of my last Golf (2012!)...now that was a noisy engine!   (That was a worn camshaft and smashed hydraulic lifters, not uncommon on the PD150...but this was a 130! )

 

 

1 minute ago, Stophen said:

Hi @TomsFocus or is it John McClane?

Yeah, yours does sound smoother than mine, what's your mileage?

I assume the oil is correct as it's just been serviced but will check later.

Any idea what could causing the tapping?

Cheers, Stophen.

I wish it was John McClane…  

Mileage was only about 70k at that point, video taken straight after belt change back in 2017.  

The tapping is potentially the timing being slightly off, but obviously not far out if you haven't noticed any other issues.  They do also tap when low on oil though, which is why I asked.

Thanks @TomsFocus,

Mine does sound a bit more like the Golf than your first video e so I probably did mess the timing up, sh**t!

Was it an expensive repair?

Cheers, Stophen.

1 minute ago, Stophen said:

Thanks @TomsFocus,

Mine does sound a bit more like the Golf than your first video e so I probably did mess the timing up, sh**t!

Was it an expensive repair?

Cheers, Stophen.

It wasn't worth repairing, ended up breaking it up for parts instead.  

I doubt you've actually damaged anything on yours though, doesn't sound like valve tap to me.  If you just retime it it'll probably be fine. It's just that it's currently firing a fraction of a second too early.

Cheers @TomsFocus,

I think if I had majorly ballsed up something would have happened already!

I guess the only way to retime it is to strip it down and check the markings on the pulleys etc?

Cheers, Stophen.

3 minutes ago, Stophen said:

I guess the only way to retime it is to strip it down and check the markings on the pulleys etc?

Yep that's right, bit of a pain but no other way to check.

Well there goes boxing day!

Hhhmm sounds noisier than my 1.6, however mines a 2012 with the PSA engine. I'm no expert but sounds / could be diesel knock, which I believe means injectors need replacing / repair

Hi,

Thanks @John Trainor for your thoughts.

I'm not convinced it is the injectors as the car starts on the button and does not produce any white smoke. I found this YouTube video which demonstrated how to diagnose that problem really well: 

What are your thoughts @TomsFocus?

To be honest, I think I've slightly mucked the timing up like Toms post above suggests:

On 12/19/2019 at 1:17 PM, TomsFocus said:

I doubt you've actually damaged anything on yours though, doesn't sound like valve tap to me.  If you just retime it it'll probably be fine. It's just that it's currently firing a fraction of a second too early.

I'm gonna try and strip it down before handing it over to Ford to check that all the marks match. Is there anything else I can do to check the timing?

Cheers, Stophen.

 

On 12/19/2019 at 1:34 PM, Stophen said:

Cheers @TomsFocus,

I think if I had majorly ballsed up something would have happened already!

I guess the only way to retime it is to strip it down and check the markings on the pulleys etc?

Cheers, Stophen.

It'd be pretty hard to get the timing wrong on these, did you lock the crank and cam with drill bits in the timing holes or just use tippex?  So long as you put the belt on properly with no slack it should be good.  6000 miles is quite a while.  As Tom says these are all noisy....mine shakes and splutters on cold starts, the whole neighbourhood probably hears me go to work in the mornings lol

Thanks @Albert27,

I did lock everything down everything exactly as described in Haynes (although the drill bit sizes needed to be different) and there wasn't any slack in the belt. I do remember it been a little hard to turn over by hand (is this normal?) but I managed ten revolutions before firing it up.

I know what you mean about a cold day, it takes about 10 seconds to stop sounding like a tractor!

If it's not that, any other thoughts of what it could be?

Cheers, Stophen.

28 minutes ago, Stophen said:

Thanks @Albert27,

I did lock everything down everything exactly as described in Haynes (although the drill bit sizes needed to be different) and there wasn't any slack in the belt. I do remember it been a little hard to turn over by hand (is this normal?) but I managed ten revolutions before firing it up.

I know what you mean about a cold day, it takes about 10 seconds to stop sounding like a tractor!

If it's not that, any other thoughts of what it could be?

Cheers, Stophen.

No worries! That's normal to overcome the compression.  If it all lined up after 10 revolutions it should be fine. Personally, I'd save your pennies & your boxing day and just monitor it closely but then I don't consider myself an expert lol. Also, tbh I can't hear anything unusual in the video....it does sound just like mine.

Thanks @Albert27, it's good to hear different views!

The wife would kill me if I did over the holidays, but as I've got to do the front breaks and wheel assembly hubs I might have a quick check to put my mind at ease.

It has covered over 6000 miles since the belts were changed, and while it is nosier than maybe some others nothing bad has happened (fingers crossed / touching wood) yet...

Cheers, Stophen.

I'd be almost certain it's not being caused by injectors.  They will 'ping' a bit on cold start because of the diesel knock from injection advance but that should quieten after a few minutes.  I also wouldn't bother chasing it after all this time personally!  

As above it should be hard to turn over due to the compression, on a petrol engine you could remove the spark plugs to make it easier but not worth the risk and hassle of removing glowplugs on diesels.

Did you definitely get the automatic tensioner right?  Can't remember if you had issues with it like I did lol!  While it's difficult to completely mess up the timing on these, it is possible to get it slightly out, either because of a bit of movement in the pulleys when locked, too much slack on the wrong side of the belt or the tensioner not set correctly to start with.  Do bear in mind that the tensioner will probably appear wrong when you go to check, as it's designed to move over time.  Even if everything does line up, I'd probably be inclined to loosen and reset the tensioner.

@iantt  Do you have any input here to put Stophens mind at ease?  As you listen to these all day you should be far better at online noise diagnosis than I am!  

Hi @TomsFocus

I'm as positive as I can be, doing this job for the first time that I set it correctly, but I'm not professional!

If I get a chance I will check it out. If not, I will hand it over to Ford for their £78 inspection. I imagine if it is something like that they will charge me for a new belt but as I require the car for work it's probably better to be safe than sorry!

Cheers, Stophen.

39 minutes ago, Stophen said:

Hi @TomsFocus

I'm as positive as I can be, doing this job for the first time that I set it correctly, but I'm not professional!

If I get a chance I will check it out. If not, I will hand it over to Ford for their £78 inspection. I imagine if it is something like that they will charge me for a new belt but as I require the car for work it's probably better to be safe than sorry!

Cheers, Stophen.

£78 inspection sounds a bit suspect to me, do they know exactly how long it'll take to diagnose?  

I kinda thought that myself considering what their normal labour charges are!

They want to keep it for a few days so maybe they will fit in around the other jobs or maybe that's just the charge for plugging it in to the computer!

2 minutes ago, Stophen said:

I kinda thought that myself considering what their normal labour charges are!

They want to keep it for a few days so maybe they will fit in around the other jobs or maybe that's just the charge for plugging it in to the computer!

That sounds more likely...charge may suddenly increase when computer says no!

Yeah, it will be interesting to hear what they have to say!

FORScan is reading clear at the moment so I doubt they will get any further, even with service level diagnostics.

On that note, I wrote to Ford to ask if they had the factory readings for the different PIDS that FORScan supports. They sent a nice letter back saying that information isn't available to the general public. Have you come across anyone that has it? Basically I would like to compare the readings I currently get with what they should have been originally.

Cheers, Stophen.

2 minutes ago, Stophen said:

Yeah, it will be interesting to hear what they have to say!

FORScan is reading clear at the moment so I doubt they will get any further, even with service level diagnostics.

On that note, I wrote to Ford to ask if they had the factory readings for the different PIDS that FORScan supports. They sent a nice letter back saying that information isn't available to the general public. Have you come across anyone that has it? Basically I would like to compare the readings I currently get with what they should have been originally.

Cheers, Stophen.

Oh dear...I think Ford have probably sabotaged your car after asking for info like that!   All manufacturers hate any 'outside' messing, whether that's copycat diags or car forums etc.  I wouldn't mention it to them again!  

There aren't really any standard readings as every car will be slightly different even when brand new.  Some things also depend on ambient temperature and other variables as well.  I expect there will be a list of tolerances Ford can use somewhere but I've never seen one.  Wilco may have acquired one through his...erm...'scources' over the years though!  

Thanks @TomsFocus, I thought that might be the case but worth asking.

I was just looking for average readings so I cold keep an eye on things but I guess that would mean less repairs for Ford!

Thanks anyway, Stophen.

UPDATE...

Hi All,

I thought I would just give an update on the noisy engine sound that I demonstrated on my YouTube clip incase anyone else has this issue.

Today Ford carried out their inspection and were unable to come up with a reason for why it is louder than they would expect. They reported no error codes but suggested that it could be related to the fuel injectors. They did report carbon build up around the turbo, but couldn't find a problem with it and there wasn't enough gases been released to have it fail it's MOT (which also took place today) - personally I think the carbon build up was down to the old DPF which I replaced a few months ago. To their credit they haven't charged me for the inspection!

I carried out an oil analysis on my previous oil that was used for just under 7000 miles. The company reported high silicon (18 PPM) and aluminium (37 PPM) so I guess something inside is wearing...?

I think I will go ahead and perform a test on the fuel injectors to see what they are like. Is there a PID on FORScan to monitor them or is it a mechanical test I will need to perform?

Cheers, Stophen.