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Oil change required


The Finance Guy
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My 2017 Focus the other day threw a warning/info thing at me yesterday saying “oil change required”. I presume that this is just tell me it needs it’s next service, but it got me thinking about what actually triggers the service warnings?

Is it as simple as a set number of miles elapsed since last service? Presumably there’s not some clever sensor that somehow determines the condition of the oil

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It's purely a timed response.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

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There has been a bit of debate on this one but, like Clive, I think it's just a time based thing, on the Fiesta Mk 8 working on 2 years from when it was last reset. You can see the oil life in the settings menu. When I had the "convenience check" at 12 months I also had an oil change but they obviously didn't reset the oil life as it was still showing 50% afterwards. I think the reason they don't reset it was the same as why they didn't record it in the service book - it wasn't an official service action.

My oil life is now down to under 8% which corresponds to the amount of time remaining from the date the PDI was done,  to the 2 year service, which I'll be having done next month.

I think the VW group system is a little more sophisticated and does take account of oil condition though. When I had Audis on the variable service regime the service warning came up at various mileage/time intervals.

 

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Makes sense that it’s timing, as I know it was so in all my other cars. Just thought it was weird that it said in this car oil change  rather than just service due. Made me suspicious that it was being specific about the oil

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Depending on engine and emmisions standard, it can be just timed or if diesel with dpf, it can be based on the frequency of dpf regens and drive style ( short journeys)  which dilutes the oil which then can require earlier oil changes regardless of service interval. The oil change message should be regarded as exactly that, oil change. Then the message / light should be reset. 

There's been a ford  few issues regarding oil dilution that I won't go into . So never ignore the oil change warning message or reset it and carry on. 

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17 hours ago, iantt said:

Depending on engine and emmisions standard, it can be just timed or if diesel with dpf, it can be based on the frequency of dpf regens and drive style ( short journeys)  which dilutes the oil which then can require earlier oil changes regardless of service interval. The oil change message should be regarded as exactly that, oil change. Then the message / light should be reset. 

There's been a ford  few issues regarding oil dilution that I won't go into . So never ignore the oil change warning message or reset it and carry on. 

That's interesting - so its a 1.5 diesel, so could be dpf related? The car does mostly motorway miles so I reckon the DPF gets plenty of regen. But are you saying this is specifically a message to change the oil, based on some kind of oil dilution sensor? And then there is a separate service warning light/message?

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not an oil dilution sensor but basically a calucation that ford have used in the pcm. 

the 1.5 needs more regens than other engines. thats why the service intervals are only 10k, thats asuming it makes it that far before oil chane message comes up, often they could only get around 5k , then a pcm software was released to reduce regens required and lenghten the oil change

also you will notice the 10k service is oil change and not filter. 

 

 

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23 hours ago, The Finance Guy said:

Makes sense that it’s timing, as I know it was so in all my other cars. Just thought it was weird that it said in this car oil change  rather than just service due. Made me suspicious that it was being specific about the oil. 

no, in this day and age its outrageous to go on time alone.

the car knows how its been driven and as pointed out, VAG had an oil condition sensing thing way back in 2000

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Vag used an oil level and temp sensor bolted to the bottom of the sump and combined with long life oil, service intervals could be extended.

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Still puzzles me that Ford effectively doubled the interval on the wet belt ecoboost still used in the Fiesta, given issues known on here with belts degrading when changes are missed, incorrect oil used, etc. I could more easily understand it on the chain cam version used in the Focus Mk 4.

The Mhev powertrain in the Puma appears to use the chain cam engine, so presumably the wet belt version will disappear when the Fiesta gets Mhev?

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19 minutes ago, iantt said:

i still cant see the point of mhev. 

Me neither. 

I usually do an extra oil change on all my vehicles midway through the service interval period anyway, so I have no issue doing this oil change now (in fact, I'm doing it today once I've been to get oil). 

My dad told me a long time ago "jug of oil is the cheapest mechanic there is", so I change the oil in both my cars and both my bikes every 6 months anyway. Sometimes longer on the pickup actually because it takes 9.8 litres!!

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Just now, iantt said:

im the cheapest mechanic. lol

No surely Edd China is the cheapest mechanic - labour charge: £0ph!

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1 hour ago, The Finance Guy said:

No surely Edd China is the cheapest mechanic - labour charge: £0ph!

That worked well until he realised he was £500k in debt a few years ago... :laugh: 

Personally I find it depends on the engine as to how necessary the oil change is.  My Dad never has them done and never has any problems but he buys big petrol engined cars, don't think he's owned a diesel in his life...  The old 2.0 HDis I used to run didn't need oil changes either, they could easily go 20k+ without issue.  Petrol 306s didn't seem fussed on oil either, even the GTi6s.  Yet the 1.6TDCi as we all know needed sub 12k changes, 6k ideally.  I also lost a 1.9 PD engine due to longlife servicing & a lack of lube at the top end wearing out the camshaft.  My current 2.0 TDI (CR) is on extended intervals (roughly 20k)  and doesn't seem to have any issues with that so far...  Best one was Mum's K11 Micra though, it went so long between changes the oil pressure light came on...and she continued to drive it for 200 miles at ~90mph before asking what the light meant.  She 'topped' it up with a few litres and it was fine for years after! :laugh: 

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3 hours ago, iantt said:

i still cant see the point of mhev. 

Like most of these things, I suppose it's all about getting a few points off the CO2 figure and trying not to exceed the 95g/100km fleet average figure, otherwise they get smacked with the massive fines that I mentioned in another thread. Although I'm sure we punters will be paying for it, whatever happens, one way or the other.

Just stopped for lunch😀 - to continue: 

I can see the logic behind the theory - capture energy otherwise lost during braking, on the overrun etc, store it in the battery and then use it to boost low end torque when required. Ford claim that this eliminates lag enabling the use of a larger turbo to produce more power on the 155ps version. (Superchips seem to manage this and more torque from the same turbo, but never mind).

Downside would seem to be (presumably) extra weight/size of the 48v battery and further complication of the interface between the combined starter/generator and the i/c engine as the electric assistance kicks in.

On the Puma you can have a spare with the fully i/c version, but not with Mhev as a lithium ion battery takes up some of the space, but they make a virtue of this by fitting the big plastic box in the remaining space in the bottom of the boot. I assume on the Fiesta it will just mean doing without a spare.

 

 

Edited by Eric Bloodaxe
Continued after lunch!
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I think that the point of mhev is that it should comply with the government's ban on vehicles driven by only petrol or diesel whilst not adding significantly to the cost of the vehicle. On a long journey it isn't likely to save any fuel at all as it won't be doing anything. Around town it doesn't offer much more than a stop/start car in terms of fuel saving. If it will allow me to keep running a petrol vehicle it will be worth the small extra cost for the motor and battery that I didn't need.

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12 minutes ago, pcaouolte said:

I think that the point of mhev is that it should comply with the government's ban on vehicles driven by only petrol or diesel 

Yes, that's an interesting point. I've still to see a clear definition as to whether the ban will be on wholly petrol or diesel vehicles, or petrol/diesel hybrids also. If the requirement is merely for some form of electrification, then an Mhev would satisfy that. The further sting in the tail though is that the target average CO2 will continue to fall (due to be 61.75g in 2030), so Mhevs will only give a temporary reprieve it would seem.

 

 

 

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Update to the original topic of the thread - just done an oil change there and reset the warning. Thanks all for your comments. 

Procedure for resetting the warning message:

Press the start button without depressing clutch to switch on ignition. Press and hold the brake and accelerator pedal until "oil system reset in progress" shows up on the dash. Reset will take place and "oil system reset complete" will pop up. 

 

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we should just have a simple cheap, very reliable petrol engine (2 or 3 cyl) with gear driven cams and super charger that's tuned for great NVH to suit a limited rev band.  It would be almost noise free, give incredible economy and emissions and just run a generator, so vehicles are on electricity all the time... much like an i8

why have ANY need to run any engine in town, continually on off in traffic, and thus have no heater, no ac etc. because the battery is low or flat or the engine is off?  I don't want stop start ever, you  programme the journey and only have the motor fire if it was going to reach operating temp and run for greater than 15 minutes between 2000 to 3000 rpm.

The biggest drain would be long motorway trips, but based on starting charge and duration (and if you pick a charge slot on the trip) it could do 80 mph all the way with a slow discharge of the battery to get even better mpg or leave it topped up for some city work at the other end etc.

with the engine gently supporting limited battery abuse, the engine would do 20k on one oil change produce imperceptible emissions, and both it and the battery would last 20 years and not be wrecked inside 24 months of stop start or continual abuse at fast charging stations (that need to generate electricity in peak day time demand !!!)

tractors should be banned / CVT should be banned / petrol only banned for new cars inside next 12 months / non plug in hybrids banned / petrol first battery second banned / 0 to 60 under 6 seconds banned / 0 to 60 > 10 seconds banned /  > 130 banned ….better still get everyone walking & I'll use the roads appropriately for my 230bhp bike to do 4 seconds to 100 and 200 top end

 

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16 hours ago, Botus said:

.better still get everyone walking & I'll use the roads appropriately for my 230bhp bike to do 4 seconds to 100 and 200 top end

Until I came to this bit I thought you'd turned into a tree hugger!😀

But I agree - if you're going to have anything over an Mhev it might as well be as you describe, in effect an electric car with range extender doing no more than charge the battery, and always working at its optimum efficiency  when it does need to run. Seems rather illogical to have a hybrid which can run on electrical power and then to be carrying the weight/complication  of a mechanical transmission.I believe the Transit PHEV operates this way.

 

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transit is electric motor driven with the ecoboost engine acting like a generator

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21 minutes ago, iantt said:

transit is electric motor driven with the ecoboost engine acting like a generator

Lol that's what I was trying to say - I guess my post could be read either way!😀

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Mhev are a stepping stone and make sense in that they can help the petrol turbo run more efficiently, eliminate lag etc. so give an increased mpg.

They also have a place in normalising hybrid use as we progress.

I'd love a proper hybrid though, with an equivalent 200bhp and a decent turn of speed but I can understand the reluctance of petrolheads to embrace them.

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We've gone a long way off the OP here - may be we should continue if necessary on one of the threads that actually mention EV's!😀

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