Garages don't know - I'm asking you the experts (Please Help)

[Ford4Me]

Hello, I am newbie to all this & have had loads of different/confusing advice from garages on my particular car.

Let me explain & sorry if this question to you experts on this forum is not very interesting, but if you can, please help me.

I have a 2009 Ford Focus Style TDCi Estate 1.8 Diesel & its coming up to 125K on the mileage, & I think but I'm not sure that there is another belt other than the cam belt which I presume needs changing at this mileage? What is this belt called & where is it in the engine please? Is this a big job?

Recently I've had the cam belt done, but annoyingly when it went to the garage - I said to them that I thought that there was another belt needing doing at the same time due to the mileage, they said they would look into it & get it done, but when I went to pick up the car they said it would have to be a seperate job & hadn't done it & were a bit unsure about it.

If anyone can please offer me the advice I am after you would be a life saver.

Thanks in advance..

[Comares2001]

Probably alternator drive belt but you would normally only replace that if needed after inspection.

[Albert27]

Is there a chain somewhere on these or a second belt (not the drive belt). I get confused with the different set ups.  One for @Tdci-Peter I think.......

[Botus]

39 minutes ago, Comares2001 said:

Probably alternator drive belt but you would normally only replace that if needed after inspection.

that's an interesting thought - as this has to come off to do the timing belt there's no labour cost to swapping it, it costs so little and the agro of a breakdown far more expensive.... so often best to do both at the same time

[Ned_Mk2_1.8tdci]

2 hours ago, Ford4Me said:

Hello, I am newbie to all this & have had loads of different/confusing advice from garages on my particular car.

Let me explain & sorry if this question to you experts on this forum is not very interesting, but if you can, please help me.

I have a 2009 Ford Focus Style TDCi Estate 1.8 Diesel & its coming up to 125K on the mileage, & I think but I'm not sure that there is another belt other than the cam belt which I presume needs changing at this mileage? What is this belt called & where is it in the engine please? Is this a big job?

Recently I've had the cam belt done, but annoyingly when it went to the garage - I said to them that I thought that there was another belt needing doing at the same time due to the mileage, they said they would look into it & get it done, but when I went to pick up the car they said it would have to be a seperate job & hadn't done it & were a bit unsure about it.

If anyone can please offer me the advice I am after you would be a life saver.

Thanks in advance..

First transmission is from the driveshaft to the HP Fuel pump, from 2009 there was a mix of the duplex chain transmission or wet belt (or belt-in-oil; BIO), it's behind the oil pump cover. It is a separate job so garage was right. BIO need to be replaced, not sure about chain.

Ask your garage to remove the hydraulic tensioner of the first transmission system. If head of the tensioner is domed than you have a chain transmission but if the head is flat than first transmission is wet belt. On my Focus it was wet belt, replaced at 100 kmiles but earlier than 10 years (ETIS recommendation is 10yr's or 125 kmiles). Youtube had few good shots on this topic.

[isetta]

I agree with the above post. If the lower one is a belt and not a chain then what they did so far is stupid as all that work has to be dismantled to do the lower belt. Perhaps they didn’t want to do lower belt. It’s a lot more work than upper belt and needs special centering tool.

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, Ford4Me said:

2009 Ford Focus Style TDCi Estate 1.8 Diesel & its coming up to 125K on the mileage, & I think but I'm not sure that there is another belt

Almost certainly, as the others say, it has a lower belt from crankshaft to fuel pump. Before 2007 this was done by a chain.

The lower belt should be changed at the same interval as the upper, it would be silly not to, but quite a few garages don't seem to know about it. It can not be called a separate job, as the upper belt has to be removed to change the lower one. No Ford dealer would ever refit a used belt, they would replace it. If I was doing the job myself, I probably would reuse a belt that has only done a few miles. It is not a stretch to fit job like some aux belts. But it is a lot of extra work either way, sadly.

However, it is as well you noticed this, I have heard of quite a few cases where the lower belt has snapped and written off the car.

[Albert27]

1 minute ago, Tdci-Peter said:

Almost certainly, as the others say, it has a lower belt from crankshaft to fuel pump. Before 2007 this was done by a chain.

The lower belt should be changed at the same interval as the upper, it would be silly not to, but quite a few garages don't seem to know about it. It can not be called a separate job, as the upper belt has to be removed to change the lower one. No Ford dealer would ever refit a used belt, they would replace it. If I was doing the job myself, I probably would reuse a belt that has only done a few miles. It is not a stretch to fit job like some aux belts. But it is a lot of extra work either way, sadly.

However, it is as well you noticed this, I have heard of quite a few cases where the lower belt has snapped and written off the car.

Peter, do you have a diagram at all of the 1.8tdci belt set up?  I find it all a little confusing but would be good to know for future reference.

[isetta]

This YouTube video is good 

 

[Tdci-Peter]

4 hours ago, Albert27 said:

Peter, do you have a diagram at all of the 1.8tdci belt set up?

Isetta's video is good for the belt. Though the job would be so much easier of course if the engine was not in the car, tight up against the body front extensions!

The chain looks very similar. This site shows both side by side:

This link shows both types: https://ford.7zap.com/en/car/50/no/23/1559/15546/67803/

The upper pulley/sprocket goes on the fuel pump shaft, with the upper belt pulley bolted to it, but outside the crankcase outer cover. So the lower belt/chain is inside the crankcase oil zone, the upper one is outside, under the timing cover.

The cassettes should be interchangeable, if the whole unit with adjuster and pulleys is replaced, then a chain can be fitted in place of a belt.

[isetta]

I can see why it might seem a good idea to put a chain in there when replacing the belt, but in reality cars with 1.8tdci are getting older and are any of them in reality going to do as many miles in the future to reach the next belt replacement service interval.

Does anyone know for sure why ford switched from chain to belt? did it make it quieter?  would you notice as it's quite a noisy old engine anyway (but I do like driving my brother's 1.8tdci, they do go well)

[Albert27]

2 hours ago, isetta said:

I can see why it might seem a good idea to put a chain in there when replacing the belt, but in reality cars with 1.8tdci are getting older and are any of them in reality going to do as many miles in the future to reach the next belt replacement service interval.

Does anyone know for sure why ford switched from chain to belt? did it make it quieter?  would you notice as it's quite a noisy old engine anyway (but I do like driving my brother's 1.8tdci, they do go well)

Probably because a belt is cheaper.  Cost saving I reckon at customer's expense!

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, isetta said:

Does anyone know for sure why ford switched from chain to belt?

No, not for sure. But Wilco, who seems to have a lot of inside knowledge, says it was part of a package of measures to keep the engine meeting emission standards. I can't see how these standards were directly related to the belt, but maybe it was a cost saving move done at the same time. The belt must be cheaper (for Ford) than the twin chain. (I wrote this minutes before Albert's reply popped up, some sort of minds think alike?😃)

Also this thread has two owners who suffered broken lower belts, one of whom managed to win a case against the garage that only changed the upper belt without checking if there was a second belt!

At 125k miles I would consider replacing it with a chain if the rest of the car was in good condition, and I was planning to keep it for as long as possible. It is a very reliable engine that could easily do 200k miles with a bit of care, and if the rest of the car held together.