Ban on new petrol/diesel sales from 2035 (or earlier!)

[TimST2]

I've mentioned on here before that commuting by public transport for me and Mrs. TimST2 isn't an option given where we live and work. I'm hoping that because my ST is a 2016 model and Mrs. TimST2's GLC is a 2017 model that they'll last us until EVs are a realistic proposition (a sensible price with better charging/infrastructure). We're lucky to have plenty of room to charge at home too. The plan for the Seven is to keep it long term, well beyond 2035, for both road and track use. Petrol will still be available, and even if the price of it increases I doubt it'll be a big issue with a car that covers so few miles.

[Turvey]

I don't do public transport at home but I thought I would see if it would work for me.

 

First bus that I could get that would take me near my work would get me there 50 minutes late for starting time at 8am, or I could walk! 30 minutes, which would be ok on the few weeks in summer where the rain isn't horizontal! 

 

Going back wouldn't be so bad, only a 10 minute wait and a 15 minute journey.....if the bus didn't break down that day!!! 

 

Think I'll stick to the old Focus just now and pick up a workmate on the way thus earning me 'Green' points by carsharing 😎

[jmurray01]

Until they develop an electric car that can charge in 5 minutes and go 800 miles on a single charge I will keep my diesel thank you very much...

[iantt]

3 hours ago, Turvey said:

I don't do public transport at home but I thought I would see if it would work for me.

 

First bus that I could get that would take me near my work would get me there 50 minutes late for starting time at 8am, or I could walk! 30 minutes, which would be ok on the few weeks in summer where the rain isn't horizontal! 

 

Going back wouldn't be so bad, only a 10 minute wait and a 15 minute journey.....if the bus didn't break down that day!!! 

 

Think I'll stick to the old Focus just now and pick up a workmate on the way thus earning me 'Green' points by carsharing 😎

I car share with 2 work mates in my euro6 Mondeo . So I must be green too. Lol 

[Jonro2009]

I car share with 2 work mates in my euro6 Mondeo . So I must be green too. Lol 

I try to drive at nothing less than double the speed limit, that way I'm only driving for half the time. Works the same as eating with your eyes closed, if you dont see the food then you can't absorb the calories.

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[Turvey]

36 minutes ago, Jonro2009 said:

Works the same as eating with your eyes closed, if you dont see the food then you can't absorb the calories.

Is it the same with drinking beer! If I close my eyes it doesn't count towards my weekly alcohol unit total? 🤔🍻

[iantt]

38 minutes ago, Jonro2009 said:

I try to drive at nothing less than double the speed limit, that way I'm only driving for half the time. Works the same as eating with your eyes closed, if you dont see the food then you can't absorb the calories.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

Good idea, will try that on the country roads to work at 100mph!! 

[iantt]

2 minutes ago, Turvey said:

Is it the same with drinking beer! If I close my eyes it doesn't count towards my weekly alcohol unit total? 🤔🍻

I close my eyes and pretend it's sunny 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

12 hours ago, iantt said:

I close my eyes and pretend it's sunny 

I've been trying that this morning and It's not working here - lashing it down!

Spotted another electric story this morning - price of charging from public chargers. Apparently the average is £10 per 100 miles worth of charge, with one operator charging up to £23. The average cost of the same charge at home was said to be £4.67, or as low as £2.67 if on an off peak overnight tariff.

According to RAC fuel watch the average derv price is currently £1.28 per litre or about £5.84 a gallon. Most diesels I've had did around 55mpg so £10 worth would get you 95 miles or so. Not much of a fuel saving there by going electric unless you are always able to charge at home. 

[TomsFocus]

9 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I've been trying that this morning and It's not working here - lashing it down!

Spotted another electric story this morning - price of charging from public chargers. Apparently the average is £10 per 100 miles worth of charge, with one operator charging up to £23. The average cost of the same charge at home was said to be £4.67, or as low as £2.67 if on an off peak overnight tariff.

According to RAC fuel watch the average derv price is currently £1.28 per litre or about £5.84 a gallon. Most diesels I've had did around 55mpg so £10 worth would get you 95 miles or so. Not much of a fuel saving there by going electric unless you are always able to charge at home. 

Also worth noting there won't be an 'off-peak' any more if everyone starts charging cars at night... 

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

3 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Also worth noting there won't be an 'off-peak' any more if everyone starts charging cars at night... 

 

Back in the days when the bulk of generation was from large coal fired power plants which could not be simply switched on and off, the idea was to fill the "troughs"overnight and smooth out the demand. Those of us old enough will remember there was once a big push to sell storage heaters which charged up overnight. Nowadays with National Grid juggling supplies from all sorts of sources it seems to becoming more a case of them being able to manipulate demand to match available supply at short notice, which is the real reason they want us to have smart meters, smart appliances, smart home chargers for EVs, etc which can be remotely controlled to cut demand when needed.

[iantt]

So ford now sell the mhev puma and I don't see the point really. 

But next is the new ford Kuga phev , plug in with a small electric range. But fear not it's got an internal combustion engine to assist that range. Not a 1.0 ecoboost. A whopping big 2.5 petrol engine. Lol . Really ?? How's that going to save the planet? 

[Jonro2009]

So ford now sell the mhev puma and I don't see the point really. 
But next is the new ford Kuga phev , plug in with a small electric range. But fear not it's got an internal combustion engine to assist that range. Not a 1.0 ecoboost. A whopping big 2.5 petrol engine. Lol . Really ?? How's that going to save the planet? 

Sounds like an oxymoron to me

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[iantt]

Well someone's a moron. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

12 hours ago, iantt said:

So ford now sell the mhev puma and I don't see the point really. 

But next is the new ford Kuga phev , plug in with a small electric range. But fear not it's got an internal combustion engine to assist that range. Not a 1.0 ecoboost. A whopping big 2.5 petrol engine. Lol . Really ?? How's that going to save the planet? 

I suppose the main point to these things is to keep the average CO2 figure under the 95g/km mark, whether that will save the planet or not, we all seem rather doubtful. I can see some logic in the "range extender" arrangement in the Transit, also in MHEV as it's harvesting wasted energy on braking etc, but a hybrid like the Kuga, carrying the weight of a big battery and a big petrol engine, I'm not so sure.

Hybrids seemed to be a possible way round a ban on purely i/c engined vehicles but now governments are saying it will apply to hybrids also, there doesn't seem a lot of point in pursuing development for only a few years.

This electrification business seems to be encouraging bigger and heavier SUV type vehicles, presumably as they can better carry the weight and the cost, but it flies in the face of Colin Chapman's mantra of "add lightness" which has always seemed logical to me.

One of the weekend papers had a spread a while back, showing a Jaguar I-Pace (2.2 tonnes plus) with all its rare battery components (which is ok by the government), against a VW Up (about 950kg) with its small petrol engine (which will be banned), and they asked how can this (the Jag) really be greener?

[TomsFocus]

13 hours ago, iantt said:

So ford now sell the mhev puma and I don't see the point really. 

But next is the new ford Kuga phev , plug in with a small electric range. But fear not it's got an internal combustion engine to assist that range. Not a 1.0 ecoboost. A whopping big 2.5 petrol engine. Lol . Really ?? How's that going to save the planet? 

It is an Atkinson engine though...  So needs a massive capacity to overcome the lack of power produced...  However, it does seem a bit counterproductive to fit such a heavy engine lol!!

Slightly embarrassed by the fact I actually like the look of the new Kuga...   

[Eric Bloodaxe]

2 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Slightly embarrassed by the fact I actually like the look of the new Kuga...   

Lol it's not the looks that are the problem!😀

[TomsFocus]

Just now, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Lol it's not the looks that are the problem!😀

Well, after the state of the Puma and the Active models I was expecting something considerably worse!!   It seems to pull off the new front grill better than the smaller models imo.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

4 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Well, after the state of the Puma and the Active models I was expecting something considerably worse!!   It seems to pull off the new front grill better than the smaller models imo.

It does, I agree. Still a bit meh about the Puma - in places it looks as if it got in a fight and came off worst!!😀 Though I'm still curious to see how the ST turns out.......

[alexp999]

First step on improving emissions should be to ban crossovers, imo.

All the improvements to engine emission technology and effeciency is being countered by the fact they are being put in big heavy vehicles.

SUVs/4x4s should be "licenced" you should only be allowed to buy one if you have a valid reason to need one.

Everyone else should be in cars.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

1 hour ago, alexp999 said:

All the improvements to engine emission technology and effeciency is being countered by the fact they are being put in big heavy vehicles.

Indeed. I still feel that more could have been achieved by taxing vehicles on weight (which is impossible to cheat, even for VW)  and gives a "virtuous circle". Less weight needs less power, so lower fuel and emissions, less particles from braking, smaller tyres, etc, etc.

[Guy Heaton]

Is the Kuga a proper hybrid in that it has a cvt so supposedly runs the engine at optimum efficiency rpm more of the time?

I don't have an issue with electric as a motive force.  The days of V engines in ordinary cars are long gone and IMO they're the only ones that sound nice.  I'd happily ban all the pointless droney cars.

Looking at a purely driving view, why wouldn't you want electric?  Instant power, massive torque.  I'd happily have an electric ST with the equivalent of 300bhp.

And for my commute it could easily be electric.  I know I'm fortunate though to have offroad parking and a garage I can house a charger in.

They just need to get the infrastructure out so you can get a 20 to 30 minute full charge at a service station, and make it competively priced.   We should be willing to pay similar prices to fillup our battery as we would to fill up our petrol tanks.

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

17 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

Is the Kuga a proper hybrid in that it has a cvt so supposedly runs the engine at optimum efficiency rpm more of the time?

As Tom mentions earlier, it's an Atkinson cycle, and I've seen comments like "similar system to a Toyota Prius", so I assume so. Haven't seen  any specific reference to it though.

[iantt]

57 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

As Tom mentions earlier, it's an Atkinson cycle, and I've seen comments like "similar system to a Toyota Prius", so I assume so. Haven't seen  any specific reference to it though.

you get a cycle too? that must be the low carbon bit 😂😂😂😂

[Eric Bloodaxe]

1 hour ago, Guy Heaton said:

I'd happily have an electric ST with the equivalent of 300bhp.

I'd certainly have no objection if all my concerns are addressed (price, range, charging time, weight, sustainability and recyclability of battery materials, welfare of workers mining raw materials, etc). Quite like the look of this projected 'R' version of the VW id3.