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ecoman

Engine malfunction after injector seal change.

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Hi to all you mechanics and entusiasts, I need HELP!!

 

I have a focus 2010 1.6 TDCI econetic which had a couple of snapped injector studs.  They've been removed / drilled out by a local machinist and I've gone on to replace all of the seals and reconnected the rigid fuel lines and intake manifold (which had to be removed to help the stud removal).

I chose to complete the replacement myself as I really can't afford the garage costs involved with such a job as I have a very low income and but need the car to help transport my wheelchair bound wife.

 

I completed the work outdoors when it was wet but ensuresd no water entered the cylinder head.  When connecting the electrics and leak off tubes to the injectors, there was some moisture on the connector plugs and around the leakoff ports.  I blew harshly at the ports / connectors to help dispell any moisture and dried them off as well as I could with a clean towel. I sprayed a bit of moisture dispellant into the electrican connection points and wiped off any excess fluid then reconnected the leads.

 

Upon attempting to start the car, there was an annoying and concerning warning message which read something like engine malfunction, when the ignition was just short of being fully turned.  I attempted a couple of starts by turning the key to the start position and the car failed to start on both occasions (about  20 seconds on first start followed by about 25 seconds a minute or two later).

 

It refused to start.  It just wouldn't fire up.  On the second attempt, it appeared to 'pick up' a bit after abou 10 seconds but then reverted back to a slightly slower turnover without firing.  The engine warning sound and message was still present when the ignition was turned a second time.

 

I have 2 questions:

1 - is the moisture which was present likely the culprit of the failed start / engine warning message?

2  - is it more likely there is a need to fully attempt to prime fuel to and from the filter? (and would this fuel starvation / air lock cause the warning message?)

 

I'm grateful of any help any of you can supply from knowledge of the engine or from previous self experience.

 

The injectors were not renewed (the main stem of the injectors were cleaned up and lightly lubricated but the tip of the injectors were untouched).  The car and injectors have had no previous issues and have been very reliable in the last 18 months of ownership.

I have ordered a reliable ELM327 (modified) reader from TunnelRat in case I need to read any codes.  The self test codes access (from the menu stem) shows no TDC codes.  I don't want to try to start the car many more times as I hate removining batteries for re-charging.

 

Thanks in advance for any help offered.

 

 

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These cars don't have an electric fuel pump, you will need to manually prime the fuel system whenever it's been disconnected.

The engine malfunction message is probably present because so many things have been unplugged etc.  Get it primed, started and running and then see whether the message re-appears or not.  

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1 minute ago, TomsFocus said:

These cars don't have an electric fuel pump, you will need to manually prime the fuel system whenever it's been disconnected.

The engine malfunction message is probably present because so many things have been unplugged etc.  Get it primed, started and running and then see whether the message re-appears or not.  

WOW! - Thanks TomsFocus for a speedy reply.  In order to remove the HP fuel lines and intake manifold, I did have to make a number of diconnections!   Everything was reconnected and back in original place apart from the injector electrical connector tray over the intake manifold.  I'll tidy that up when it's running.

 

When the ODB reader arrives, will it give any useful information if connected on a non-running engine?

 

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1 minute ago, ecoman said:

WOW! - Thanks TomsFocus for a speedy reply.  In order to remove the HP fuel lines and intake manifold, I did have to make a number of diconnections!   Everything was reconnected and back in original place apart from the injector electrical connector tray over the intake manifold.  I'll tidy that up when it's running.

 

When the ODB reader arrives, will it give any useful information if connected on a non-running engine?

 

No problem, I spend most of my life on here! :laugh: 

I wouldn't trust fault codes picked up from a non-running engine - most will be red herrings about low fuel pressure, low battery voltage etc.  They will all need clearing once it's back up and running though.

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Thanks so much TomsFocus for the fast reply and information.  Thankfully, that'll be the issue and the relatively simple remedy will resolve it.  It's chucking down like I don't know what at present so I'll complete the priming when the gusty wind and heavy rain stops.  I'll also double check the electrical connectors to ensure they appear fully dry again.  

 

Cheers Bud. 😂

 (I'm not good with emoji's but I think this one may be suitable on this occasion)

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😨

Tried priming the fuel pump and then slowly starting the engine (I'd watched a YT vid which suggesting slow starting engine for 4-5 x 6 second bursts before a full start attempt).

 

Diddn't fire up at all.  battery now dead and being charged.

 

I'd imagine that if it just needed priming, the above actions should have led to it firing, even with a weak battery.  The battery is to be fully charged before the next attempt tomorrow - if there's a break in the galey weather.

 

Please tell me it's still likely to be a priming issue as I just can't afford any garage costs.  Once the battery was removed, I've re-checked all connections, not noticed any fuel leaks and opened up the electrical connectors to ensure they were dry.  (There was some water displacement fluid in there so I dried this out ready for tomorrow's attempt.)

 

Are there any simple procedures I can do to check the injectors / electrical system once I have a strong battery? (I have a multimeter).

 

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I'm not sure what you mean by slow starting attempts.  If you're trying to prime the system by switching the ignition on in 5 second bursts, it won't do anything as there's no electric lift pump on these.

Once you're sure the system is fully primed, the filter is full AND the battery is charged, it may take 10-20 seconds of running the starter to push the fuel through the final parts of the system and get it started.  Once it does catch, keep the revs up to force any remaining air bubbles through.  I wouldn't suggest running the starter for any longer than 20 seconds at a time.  These can be a pain to bleed though, it's not uncommon for garages to tow them in gear to pull the fuel through!  Personally I haven't had a problem just using a hand primer so far though!

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Are you still getting the engine malfunction message?               Also, if you can locate a large (maybe 60amp) fuse, it might be the one that feeds the glowplugs. If you pull it, you'll get more cranking amps out of your battery for longer. On my Mk3 Mondeo TDCi, when you turn on the ignition, the glowplugs energise for 30 seconds even if the engine has started. They take a lot of current! So if you want to have more battery life whilst troubleshooting, I recommend you locate and remove it for now. I don't have a fuse layout for yours else I'd tell you the fuse number. On mine it's a physically large yellow 60amp fuse. 

If you ARE still getting the engine malfunction msg, then it'll never start till that's cleared, so you need to read your ecu for codes. 

With all the work you've had done, just check that a sensor hasn't been disconnected and forgotten about. 

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Make sure the battery is fully charged. I run a charger to my battery in the car. If the battery is low the engine will turn slower and not get enough compression to fire up. Good luck.

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Thank you all -  you sure know how to cheer up a depressed old *****!

 

Hopefully there'll be a bit of a break in the weather tomorrow and I'll follow your advice.

 

Thanks again!

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How did you store the fuel injectors after they were removed from the engine?

These fuel injectors are extremely sensitive and need to be filled with special storage fluid or diesel fuel (for example submersed in a clean container with diesel fuel) once removed from the engine. Even when removed for a short period it is very important to store the fuel injectors properly. Dry storage of the fuel injectors or even the smallest dirt/water particles can permanently damage the fuel injectors.

I know enough cases where incorrect storage of the fuel injectors (even for a short period) of this type of engine resulted in 4 new fuel injectors.

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17 hours ago, nicam49 said:

If you ARE still getting the engine malfunction msg, then it'll never start till that's cleared, so you need to read your ecu for codes.  

Sorry but this simply isn't true.

The engine malfunction message is just that...a message.  It might be combined with limp mode but it'll never stop the engine starting. 

Even the EML won't stop the engine starting.  Engines need to be running for accurate diagnostics.

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Hi, well, in my experience, if my eml comes on, the engine doesn't start. Simply, the ecu doesn't allow the engine to start. It's not a case of simple physics like it would in a crude diesel engine. The ecu has the final say. Period. The OP is wasting his time bleeding everything until he's sorted out the eml. (that's my humble opinion anyway) 

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1 minute ago, nicam49 said:

Hi, well, in my experience, if my eml comes on, the engine doesn't start. Simply, the ecu doesn't allow the engine to start. It's not a case of simple physics like it would in a crude diesel engine. The ecu has the final say. Period. The OP is wasting his time bleeding everything until he's sorted out the eml. (that's my humble opinion anyway) 

You're welcome to share your opinion...but it's not correct in this case and is misleading for this thread which is why I've picked up on it.  These cars don't use an electric lift pump, so there will be a low fuel pressure fault triggered if they are attempted to start without manually priming the system first.  This fault code can trigger the malfunction message but will not stop it attempting to start. 

The EML isn't even on, just the engine malfunction message...I've personally done over 50 miles in limp mode with the malfunction message showing in an identical Mk2.5 1.6 TDCi...

There are some cars which won't start due to certain warnings - empty AdBlu is a common one on modern stuff - but I've certainly never owned, diagnosed or repaired a car that wouldn't start purely because the EML had come on...that would be extremely dangerous (imagine the engine had cut-out in heavy flowing traffic!) and would render limp mode completely unnecessary.

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loads of people find they can drive their cars with the eml on for months, and then they are forced to sort it out when it fails the MOT for having EML on (dependant on age of car). EML can be set to on for a whole load of reasons, some of those reasons are serious ones some are not.    eg. my previous Fiesta 1.6tdci, sometimes when driving it , it went into limp mode, turn engine off and restart and it would be fine for a while and then it would happen again. Code was low fuel pressure, which was fixed with new fuel filter when I got round to it. But each time I restarted the engine the EML stayed on although it would drive fine for a couple if days before going into limp mode again.  later on when I sold this car to my brother, it had EML light on for a long time and code said EGR fault, although it still drove fine. And the MOT tester could not fail it for EML as it was 2007 car and he can only fail diesels for EML being on for 2008 onwards.  There are lots of faults that cause EML to be on but would not stop the engine starting. 

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I hear what you're both saying, don't forget that THIS eml, or engine malfunction msg, or whatever,, (OP was vague on the actual msg) was present as soon as the ignition key was turned and before cranking, that means to me, the ecu detected a 'something wrong' state, which needs sorting before anything else. 

It def. won't be low fuel pressure Tom, 'cos he's not even started cranking the engine. It might be a disconnected sensor (say frp sensor) in which case it def won't start. The OP needs to read the codes. There could be a clue to the non-starting, that's why they exist after all.    If the OP had said he always used to get that eml light on anyway, before starting all this work, then fair enough... but he didn't, so something has changed to cause it. And it's not an empty fuel filter., tho it wld be a gd idea to prime it. 

 

 

On 2/21/2020 at 12:41 PM, ecoman said:

 

 

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:yahoo:

 

I replaced the battery and re-primed the fuel filter and poured a bit of fuel in the filter to HP pum lines.  I read the messages with a reader and the only issue was EGR low (and it suggested the EGR valve was stuck).  This message was cleared and I started the engine.  It didn't start at the first attempt - it stopped turning over itself after about 20 seconds.  I waited about a minute for the battery to settle a bit and tried a second time.

 

Just as it was about to stop turning over, there was a splutter for a few seconds and then it stopped.

 

I waited a short while and turned it over again - Yippppppeeeeeeee!

 

I had removed the heater plug fuse as advised and I do think this allowed the battery to last just that bit longer.

 

I kept the engine running at mid-rate revs for 5 minutes, re-checked the codes, reset the codes and started it again to take if for a short run.

 

The engine revs did drop for a brief second when I shortly revved at idle but I put that down to the EGR low error code.  It hasn't been EGR blanked (a job for the future I think after cleaning all of the crap from the intake manifold!) but I'm sure the EGR message will go away after a reset and a few more settling down miles.

 

I not have one final question if I may, When putting it all back together, I decided to do an oil service.  In removing the filter housing, the outside lip on the housing chipped a couple of times. It appears that a bolt which holds a turbo breating/feed tube to the engine block, just above the filter housing, had been bolted on after the filter had last been changed and this is what had chipped the lip of the filter.

 

It looks to me that I'll be able to get away without replacing the cap.  Anyone wish to provide advice on this?

 

Thanks a million again to all who participated and saved me from severe depresison and headaches. :yahoo:

The initial warning was a dash worded message - engine malfunction - the only TDC code was the EGR one which returned after the engine was run for 5 minutes.

 

 

 

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"It looks to me that I'll be able to get away without replacing the cap.  Anyone wish to provide advice on this? ". hard to say without seeing a pic. depends on how close the chip is to where the rubber seal is. if for example, when assembled, the chip allows you to see the rubber or allows you to say get your finder nail into the rubber then maybe not ok.

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A gr8 news update 👍 If you're asking for an opinion.... I'd say now you know about it, better do something about it. Tho' it's a right pain having to drain all that oil out again... esp. this weather. 

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😂

Filter cap replaced - engine has been run to normal operating temps and all is fine.

 

The chips were on the 'lip' which mates to the outermost body of the filter holder, no where near the new rubber sealing washer.

 

I'll keep an eye on it over the coming days and replace it if it appears to fail.  

 

A final thankyou to all involved.  When you have a very limited income due to household disability and you need your wheels to save on costs and as a medical lifeline, it's so satisfying to receive sutch expertise and advice.  Thank you all from the bottom of my heart.

 

Tom

 

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