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P02E4 fault code


Mark81
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Hi there, my focus has had this fault code for some time now, the car judders when I turn it off and it won’t do a dpf regen so I  now also have dpf problems...I’m at my wits end with it I’ve tried 2 second hand throttle bodies and then a refurbished one from Eurocarparts having no joy, the wiring has been inspected and I took it to Ford who updated the PCM and offered to fit a new Delphi throttle body which for the part only was £450, I’ve read in a few forums the MAF sensor can cause the air intake valve to stick open does anybody have an opinion on this before I buy a MAF sensor or any other ideas I’m getting sick of throwing money at my car and just want it back to good working order 😕

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I did not think the MK 2 was still made in 2012, Is that a typo?

If you open the Bonnet and get someone to switch the engine off then you should be able to hear the Valve close for a few seconds, then cycle open and closed a few times. I believe the drive gear on some of these is plastic and they can fail for that reason. The EGR will do the same, but that is at the back of the engine as you probably already know.

If you get yourself set up with FORScan then you can monitor the valve. On my older MK 2 It was called EGR_TV.(Throttle Valve). I'm not sure if the reading that FORScan gives is a commanded one or a feedback one though, so even if it is showing as behaving itself it may not be if the drive teeth are stripped.

You can also get live readings for the MAF with FORScan but to be honest with you I can't think how a faulty one could prevent the Throttle Valve from closing, but I would be interested if you did find out that was the case.

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Yes you are right MK3 🤪 we have checked each one of the 3 I’ve tried none of them do a sweep at key on, dismantled 2 of them and checked the motor with a 12v battery, gears are fine as well no teeth missing or anything, I do have forscan got it a couple of days ago for the purpose of attempting static regen...no joy dpf is at max limit, also tried resetting the learnt values of the air intake valve didn’t make any difference still shudders when I turn it off and drives like a bag of crap 🤷🏼‍♂️ but I appreciate your advise we tried all sorts could be pcm but think that’s unlikely as Ford updated the software recently...you never can be sure though. 

Cheers

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I did wonder what the noise was when I turned the car off, obviously that’s what your talking about with the valve opening and closing a few times...don’t hear that anymore unfortunately and I will let you know if MAF is causing the problem no worries 

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I had a late MK 2.5 but it was a Euro V one. I don't know of the Engine Management changed for your model or not so the following may not be applicable to your car so don't take it as gospel.

If you connect up FORScan, bring up the PID for EGR_TV in the PCM in the Dashboard option and start the car. It should be fully open. If you stop the car it should cycle open/closed and park itself open. As I said before I don't know if FORScan shows the commanded or actual position of the valve.

The MAF thing you read about elsewhere might be the trick that can be used if you have a P242F code that can't be cleared. Here is a link to the thread in the FORScan forum. https://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=247#p630

It might be a good idea to move this thread into the Focus section because not everyone follows the General Chat section.

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Ok thanks will give that a go on forscan...I wouldn’t know how to move the link to the Ford section only just joined today haha

Cheers

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Just copied and pasted it thanks again for the advice!

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I forgot to mention yesterday that FORScan has an Output Control Mode, and with that you can open or close the Throttle Valve when connected to your laptop, all at your own risk. 

I have had a play around with this on my MK 2 and the engine stalls when the Valve is commanded to close. I was thinking that if there is enough play in the connector you might be able to retest some of the other ones that you have, if it will work with the ignition on but car not running

Her is a link to the relevant sticky post in the FORScan forum.

.https://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=844

 

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Good man thanks...I did have a look on forscan see if there I could command it to open/close but couldn’t find it...only option I could see was to reset learnt values but will have another look.

Cheers

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There was only a few options under control on forscan, was air intake valve wasn’t one which is a shame...I could read what is was doing and it just stayed on 0.86/7 volts when I pressed the accelerator so not moving when it should then.

 

Thanks again 

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34 minutes ago, Mark81 said:

There was only a few options under control on forscan, was air intake valve wasn’t one which is a shame...I could read what is was doing and it just stayed on 0.86/7 volts when I pressed the accelerator so not moving when it should then.

 

Thanks again 

That is a pity. In my MK 2 it was called EGR Throttle Valve, even though oy is nowhere near the EGR.

Unless your engine is vastly different it should stay fully open with the engine running. The only times that it should move is when you switch off, during a DPF Regeneration where it will partially close until the regeneration is finished, and when taking your foot off the Accelerator when the car is under load, where it will partially close for a few seconds before going back to open again.    

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Oh maybe I missed it then I was looking for air intake valve as like you say EGR is a different valve...yeah I get what you mean it explains why it won’t do a regen, shudders to a stop when I turn it off and drives like I’ve just passed my test ha...I’ll have another go tomorrow.

Cheers

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The throttle valve should also be partially closed under light load cruising as well.  It's main purpose is to restrict intake air when the EGR opens.

Does the PCM chuck a fault code with it unplugged?  You might be able to get it to regen like that if so.  I must admit, I haven't seen them break on a Mk3 so far, I reckon you've got a wiring fault somewhere.

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2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

The throttle valve should also be partially closed under light load cruising as well.  It's main purpose is to restrict intake air when the EGR opens.

Does the PCM chuck a fault code with it unplugged?  You might be able to get it to regen like that if so.  I must admit, I haven't seen them break on a Mk3 so far, I reckon you've got a wiring fault somewhere.

Thanks for that Tom, it must have changed slightly from the late MK 2.5's because mine sat at a steady indicated 90 ish percent and would not waver except on the overrun for a few seconds, then went back to exactly where it was. 

If none of the valves can be driven then a wiring fault is my gut feeling as well.

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Thank you both for the advice. The only place we haven’t checked the wiring is above the left hand side engine mounting which we will be at some point soon...I’ll see if any codes come up with it unplugged and try to do a static regen...yesterday the dpf read the soot loading at 42% and 162% not sure why there is 2 different tbh but the fault code says bank 1 of the dpf is at maximum soot loading so static dpf regeneration start then fails.

Surely 3 throttle bodies can’t be faulty although 2 were off eBay and one refurbished...simply cannot afford a new one at £450 and would be a massive gamble.

I’m with you guys that it’s wiring have checked connectors etc so looks like it’s back up on the ramp so remove the engine mounting...I wonder if a volt ohm meter could be used to probe the connector that connects to the throttle body there are 6 connections and 4 wires but I’m scared of bricking the pcm 😬

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Quick update on this while the car is warming up to try a regen with the throttle body disconnected...it does have a fault code when unplugged P02E9 DIAF A position sensor circuit high and I also just tried connecting one of the spare throttle bodies and holding the flap shut and it recognised that as well and put up fault code P02E5 instead of P02E4 for stuck open so basically the pcm knows if it’s connected, knows if it’s stuck open and knows if it’s stuck closed but doesn’t move I wonder if the ground wire could be broken because it can’t be the control wires after that test 🤯

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Wouldn’t do regen with the throttle body connected/disconnected...this time said exhaust gases not at high enough temperature which is strange engine was hot and last few times it’s said soot load at max...could the pcm be mistaking an EGR fault for the throttle body and therefore stopping it working as they are all part of of the regen procedure 🤷🏼‍♂️ f**k knows

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I think that the key to fixing the problem is getting the valve to behave itself one way or another.

If the PCM detected that the valve was either open or could not communicate with it then it is probably clever enough not to try to adjust the fuelling to the unique characteristics required for regeneration. The glow plugs are normally also switched on during regeneration, but I doubt if that is the source of the problem.

I also doubt that the EGR is the problem. The earlier versions of this engine did not have any dedicated EGR feedback sensors, but the PCM is clever enough to detect a problem from other feedback. Your later engine may be different.

A lot of people don't realise that the Soot Load is a theoretical value, not a measured one. The relevant sensor is the differential pressure one across the DPF which is measured. You can monitor this with FORScan. Normally anything over 15 is critical. If the DPF is clean the pressure at idle would be less than 0.5, during steady cruising a lot less than 5, and reaching less than 10 during high load accelerating.  

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I completely agree when the intake valve was working regeneration was working so the main problem is the valve once that is fixed then regen might work if not will remove and clean manually. The problem is now the fault code for the dpf bank 1 soot load at maximum is present so EML on...I can clear it but comes straight back and the MOT is due in May so the pressure is on... the code isn’t the same one that’s hard to clear as in the previous link you sent where you have to disconnect the MAF sensor it’s a different one but it won’t do a static regen because it is above the maximum soot load. Using Forscan it has 2 measurements one is 11% and the other 163%, the car still drives no power loss just lots of kangarooing whilst in traffic and shudders to a stop when I turn it off, hopefully we can find the wiring issue which is most likely the cause although that contradicts the fact the pcm can read through those wires if it’s stuck open or closed and detects if it’s not connected at all.

Cheers

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I don’t suppose either of you two would know which wire does what on the throttle body connector or where I could find a pinout diagram so we can run some wiring tests.

Cheers

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Ok thanks no worries 

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1 hour ago, Mark81 said:

which wire does what on the throttle body connector or where I could find a pinout diagram so we can run some wiring tests.

This pic is from the Mk3 Wiring diagram for the DV6C engine (1.6TDCI). It should be a basic electric motor and a 3 wire position sensor, which may be just a pot, or it may be an electronic sensor. Applying +5v to Vref and 0v to VGRD should make it give a signal on Vout that changes with throttle movement, usually in the 0v to 5v range somewhere. If it is a pot, it can also be tested with a multimeter. Typical car pot resistances are about 5kohm.

Full schematic (139 pages!) should be here:

 

DV6c-tb-con.PNG

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