P02E4 fault code

[Mark81]

That’s greatly appreciated will perform wiring tests and hopefully get my car back to it old self.

Thanks again...

[Mark81]

Will this be the same as mine is a MK3?

Cheers

[Mark81]

Sorry just seen you did say from a MK3 

Cheers

[Tdci-Peter]

On 3/6/2020 at 2:21 PM, Mark81 said:

it does have a fault code when unplugged P02E9 DIAF A position sensor circuit high and I also just tried connecting one of the spare throttle bodies and holding the flap shut and it recognised that as well and put up fault code P02E5 instead of P02E4 for stuck open so basically the pcm knows if it’s connected, knows if it’s stuck open and knows if it’s stuck closed but doesn’t move I wonder if the ground wire could be broken because it can’t be the control wires after that test

If multiple valves have been tried but none show any sign of movement, then one of the two motor drive wires (top two in the pic) may be open circuit, or be open circuit in the ECU connector, or even a faulty driver in the ECU. You seem to have tested the signal back from the throttle quite well.

One main purpose of the throttle is to raise the exhaust temperature. Normally a diesel runs very lean except at max power, and the throttle (my 1.8 has no throttle at all) is kept wide open. The engine is most efficient like this, more of the heat from the fuel is used in the engine and less goes out of the exhaust. Part closing the throttle makes the engine work a little harder, dragging air in past it, but also gets the air/fuel ratio richer, up towards the stoichiometric limit. The same amount of heat from the fuel is now going into a smaller mass of air, so it gets hotter, and more heat is wasted out of the exhaust valves. This helps heat up the DPF for regen.

As Tom says, it can also be used to augment the EGR flow under light load, hence its other name of EGR_Throttle.

[Mark81]

Ok thanks...so when you say open circuit does that mean the wire could be broken or rubbed through and touching metal for example? If it is a faulty driver in the ECU does that mean a replacement ECU is required? I really hope that isn’t the case as your talking thousands and the car itself is only worth around 3.

Heres to hoping broken motor drive wire!

Cheers

[Mark81]

[Mark81]

So the 2 yellow/purple are V+ and VGRD going by the wiring diagram so that would make the grey and the blue/white the motor control and the green/blue VOUT if I’m reading it correctly...so checking the resistance is correct for each should confirm if any of the wires are broken. I also read somewhere cracked/bad soldering on the instrument cluster can cause problems like this...I’m trying not to think the worst in that the ECU has had it.

Cheers

[Tdci-Peter]

4 hours ago, Mark81 said:

So the 2 yellow/purple are V+ and VGRD going by the wiring diagram so that would make the grey and the blue/white the motor control and the green/blue VOUT if I’m reading it correctly

It is nice to see a photo that backs up the colour codes on the drawing! But your list is not quite right, the top two on the pic are the fat Yellow/Violet & the Blue/Green, they go to the motor.

The other three, thinner wires go to the sensor: Blue/White, Grey, thin Yellow/Violet are +5, Signal & 0v respectively.

If testing the Throttle body at its connector, I would expect a very low resistance for the motor, and it will jump about if the valve flap is moved by hand, but settle quickly to low reading if held still. The sensor could be a pot with simple resistance readings, or it could be electronic, in which case no sensible resistance readings will be seen.

To test back to the ECU is harder. The motor drive is PWM (pulsed), and may be bi-directional, so both wires will give unpredictable readings with a multimeter. The best way to test, without removing the ECU connector, is by back-probing with a needle. Google (or DuckDuckGo if you prefer privacy) will tell you about this method.

I think earthing out of bare wires is less likely, it would tend to be intermittent unless forced hard against some metal. A broken wire would be the best, but some people have found bad connections in their ECU connectors. These connectors are held in by security bolts, so are a little tricky to remove, but it can be done. I hope it is not the ECU also, but if it is, and you know the fault (blown output driver), then repair might be possible. There are places that offer this, much cheaper than a new ECU, though I have not heard of much success down that route. A second hand ECU is problematic, it will need setting up (injector codes etc I expect), but also PATS programming, and last time I looked, Forscan could not do PATS on a Mk3 Focus.

 

 

[Mark81]

Ok I really appreciate this feedback my brother works in electronics so i will show him this information...I think he will know how to back probe and run the tests now you have provided such detailed information and the wiring diagram.

Again many thanks

[Mark81]

Hi there hope you are all well.

I just wanted to update you on the issue with my car.

After checking the ECU connectors then back probing each wire connected to the throttle valve with the help of the wiring diagram thanks 

https://www.fordownersclub.com/profile/72624-tdci-peter/

....we found no continuity from the VGRD wire to the motor on the throttle body which obviously indicated a broken wire.

After tracing the wire and pulling the wiring loom apart we found the problem, acid from the battery breather has leaked and run down the wiring loom and sat at the lowest point behind the gear box (which isn’t much fun to get to to be honest) and eaten away the insulation on several wires but has actually broken that wire where the clips that secure the loom in position are pulled tight (probably a bit too tight to be fair) 

Anyway after replacing that wire and putting the car back together the throttle valve responds as it should at key off for the first time in 6 or so months.

I’ve run the relearn procedure using forscan and thought I’d give the static regen a go which took 50 mins but was also successful although I burnt my finger on the bonnet prop after, the car is now repaired apart from the next mission of removing the gear box to replace several wires which are a bit dodgy.

Again thanks for the input it was very helpful.

Cheers

[Tizer]

That is good news and thanks for getting back to the forum, if the battery acid did that to your loom then I'm sure the same problem may be festering in other MK3's.

One little question, was the damage to the loom obvious from the outside or only when you stripped the outer insulation from the loom?

[Mark81]

Hi

I replied to your question a few days ago but now it doesn’t seem to be on here how strange, i only looked because another member from a different part of the forum asked if I ever got my car repaired because they have the same problem.

Anyway I’ll just reply again you guys all helped me out so it’s the least I can do...the acid was visible in the battery box and where it entered the wiring loom but wasn’t on the outside of the loom behind the gear box where it was sat inside the loom rotting the wires that’s because it’s tightly sealed with tape and ties which have lugs that attach the the back of the gear box and the actual break was where those clip/ties are pulled really tight almost crushing the plastic outer part of the loom, my brother/mechanic did say this is a common fault on ford transits without any battery leak just the vibration and sheer tightness of the ties is enough to cause wiring issues.

Cheers

[Mark81]

Does anyone know how I can add another member to this forum? His user name is Beam99.

Thanks

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, Mark81 said:

Does anyone know how I can add another member to this forum? His user name is Beam99.

Thanks

@Mark81  You can tag members by putting an @ symbol before their name.

@Beam99

[Mark81]

Ok thank you.

[tomo_lfc1]

Mate I have just joined on here to say your a life saver had this fault for over 6 months and I now finally have no EML on the dash, I found the larger yellow with tracer was damaged roughly in the same place as yours replaced that broken section and bang light out and a smooth stop on shut down

 

once again thanks

[Mark81]

No worries mate same wire as well  strange that ain’t it...should do a regen now as well happy days.

[tomo_lfc1]

I done a regen then this fault appeared so for ages I thought it was linked or I had done something wrong but just a weird coincidence maybe

[Mark81]

I think it’s because the blue and green wire and yellow and purple are intertwined and end up on the outside of the loom where the zip tie/plugs are too tight mine took battery acid to help but my brother said the combination of vibration and the clips being too tight causes in on transits...

[Mark81]

Yeah it won’t do a regen with this fault because the valve is meant to close slightly during the process so the ECU says no haha

Should drive better as well not as juddery 

[tomo_lfc1]

Yep agreed and mine was exactly the same issue as yours leaking battery acid from a cheap battery from a previous owner and a few week earlier I had my clutch replaced so that may have disturbed it then the regen I done finish it off

[Mark81]

Makes sense the wires are close to the exhaust so heat transfer from the dpf...mine was a decent battery but no tube for the breather...I wonder if the regen process cooks the battery and makes it leak...like I said in an earlier post bonnet prop gave me a blister after regen so battery must be warm as well 

[tomo_lfc1]

Makes sense in my case this fault code is popping up more often, seen a few people with same issue on other sites as well

[Cenk]

Hi everybody

i have same P02E4 fault code. i have 2011 grand cmax 1.6 diesel. i live in Turkey. And my english is not good. i use google translate mostly. but its not good translate, and i cant understand posts.

how can you help me

[Tizer]

The code means that the Valve in the Air Intake does not close, or half close when it should do.

The Valve is sometimes called the Throttle Valve and is situated just before the Inlet Manifold beside the MAP Sensor at the top left hand side if the engine if you look from the front of the car.

In this instance the fault was caused by one of the Electrical Cables being damaged because of leaking battery Acid, but it could have been caused by other reasons including the Valve having mechanical damage.

I hope this translates ok.