P02E4 fault code

[Cenk]

 

Is the throttle position always in the same position? because when I connect with the elm cable, the throttle position remains constant at 86.67% while the vehicle is in motion. it never changes.

[Tizer]

1 hour ago, Cenk said:

 

Is the throttle position always in the same position? because when I connect with the elm cable, the throttle position remains constant at 86.67% while the vehicle is in motion. it never changes.

There are 3 times when it should change.

1. When you switch the engine off it should fully close (0%) for a few seconds, then cycle on/off a few times before parking itself fully open.

2. During a DPF Regeneration it will close to about 30% until the regeneration is finished.

3. When changing gear or taking your foot off the accelerator while driving it will half close for a few seconds before going back up to where it was.

That is how it worked on a late MK 2.5 Focus, so it may be slightly different if your car has a newer version of the engine.

[Cenk]

 

Interesting and thank you for your help, Tizer. I think I will not be able to solve the problem this way. they will need to take it to an authorized ford service again. I hope the problem is solved and I will inform you here. Greetings from Ireland and England to Turkey.

[Tizer]

I hope you get it fixed without too much expense.

@Tdci-Peter kindly posted a copy of the electrical wiring diagram at the end of page one of this thread and if you show it to an Automotive Electrician or experienced Technician they should be able to check whether the Valve is faulty or if it is not closing because it is not getting a signal to close.

This should be cheaper than going to authorised ford service.

[Cenk]

Hi Tizer, I FIXEDDDDDD :)

There was a break in the cable like you said.

 I only paid 30 euros to the electrician. Thank you so much for your help.

see you.

[Tizer]

3 hours ago, Cenk said:

Hi Tizer, I FIXEDDDDDD :)

There was a break in the cable like you said.

 I only paid 30 euros to the electrician. Thank you so much for your help.

see you.

That is good news and I'm glad you let the forum know the outcome, it may help someone else.

[Cflannery]

Hi I just found this thread when googling the fault code I have on my 2014 Ford Focus is it only that wire that gets corroded that needs to be replaced or is it also the sensor?

[Tizer]

4 hours ago, Cflannery said:

Hi I just found this thread when googling the fault code I have on my 2014 Ford Focus is it only that wire that gets corroded that needs to be replaced or is it also the sensor?

If the only fault is a broken wire then that would need repaired but the sensor and motor would not unless they had become damaged because of the wiring fault. As far as I know you can't buy them separately, they are part of the valve assembly.

You may not have a wiring fault, it could be a faulty valve or PCM fault.

 

[p1n0]

Hy guys, i have a focus mk3, 1.5 tdci with the same error p02E4 , i make the following test.

I test the cables and are good, i see it make some repair behind the gearbox not for the throttle wires.

I change the throttle with new one

I change the air flow meter with new one and i test wiring

I change the ecu PCM

Can another sensor from car to don't let move the throttle, its stay fully open , it have voltage i can t move it just with a lot efforts.

Sorry for my bad english 🙂 any advice is good because i don't know what else to do.

The delear from my country make update for pcm , test with another throttle,  another maf sensor , and it say the fault is the camshaft. 

[JamesMck]

I wanted to take the time to thank the contributors. Having been plagued with eml on dash with P02E4 this thread was invaluable.   One of the air flow control valve wires had broken.  Only very minor damage to plastic conduit almost not noticeable had rubbed through.  Repaired three whilst I was there.  It is around the clip under the gear control cables.  THANK YOU

[gerrywalsh]

Hi all,

I have P02E4 fault on engine switch off also. I clear with Forscan and when I cut the engine I get the shudder as it stops as described in posts above. The fault then presents on the PCM. I want to continuity check the cabling from the throttle body to wherever it terminates. Can somebody provide detail on how they did this as I'm unsure where the other end of this cabling is.

In my mind all 5 wires would go directly to the PCM, I'd remove the relevant connector and test with a multi-meter.

On a by the by when I monitor the throttle parameters in Forscan I don't get any change when revving up the engine. Throttle body voltage stays around 0.7V and Throttle position stays around 12-13%. Would this indicate the PCM is not getting sensible readings back from the unit?

Thanks in advance!

[Tdci-Peter]

On 7/6/2021 at 11:32 AM, gerrywalsh said:

n my mind all 5 wires would go directly to the PCM, I'd remove the relevant connector and test with a multi-meter.

I don't have a Mondeo schematic, unfortunately, only the Focus. But I also see those wires going back to the PCM, possibly without any intervening connector.

Standard servo motors with a pot feedback are quite easy to test with a multimeter, some small clips and ideally a variable (0-12v) power supply. The two motor pins will have low resistance, and will generate small voltages if the valve opening can be changed by hand. The pot will have a constant resistance (typ 2k to 10k ohms) between the two end pins, and intermediate resistance to the centre pin. Ideally these tests would be done with the valve out of the car, for ease of access. A power supply can then be used to energise the motor, and see if it moves easily. If the resistances do not stack up as above, then there may be an electronic position sensor (my Chinese replacement EGR valve has this, the old Ford one was a pot), or a complete electronic unit like the Hella Turbo actuator. But basic servo motors are the most common for these valves.

12-13% sound like a bad position sensor, or maybe a bad connection. If that is 12% open (ie almost shut) it would have a big effect on performance if it was true.

[gerrywalsh]

On 7/8/2021 at 11:01 AM, Tdci-Peter said:

I don't have a Mondeo schematic, unfortunately, only the Focus. But I also see those wires going back to the PCM, possibly without any intervening connector.

Standard servo motors with a pot feedback are quite easy to test with a multimeter, some small clips and ideally a variable (0-12v) power supply. The two motor pins will have low resistance, and will generate small voltages if the valve opening can be changed by hand. The pot will have a constant resistance (typ 2k to 10k ohms) between the two end pins, and intermediate resistance to the centre pin. Ideally these tests would be done with the valve out of the car, for ease of access. A power supply can then be used to energise the motor, and see if it moves easily. If the resistances do not stack up as above, then there may be an electronic position sensor (my Chinese replacement EGR valve has this, the old Ford one was a pot), or a complete electronic unit like the Hella Turbo actuator. But basic servo motors are the most common for these valves.

12-13% sound like a bad position sensor, or maybe a bad connection. If that is 12% open (ie almost shut) it would have a big effect on performance if it was true.

Thanks @Tdci-Peter

I went back to check what happens when the connector is removed from the throttle body and the throttle voltage disappears and the PWM signal goes 100% (same as no reading) . Looks like the wiring is fine but something with the throttle body is askew. I've ordered one due to arrive later today. 

I'll come back and let you know was it the throttle body or otherwise. Here's for hoping!

[gerrywalsh]

Not the throttle body. Just swapped it out with no improvement. Throttle Voltage still doesn't change when accelerator pedal is pressed. It's starting to become apparent this issue is originating in the pcm😔

In fact I've just tested the voltage on the fatter wires and they never change (stay around 0. 7v)no matter how heavy I press the pedal. Am I correct in my understanding that this reading should increase with pursuing the accelerator?

[Tdci-Peter]

On 7/9/2021 at 12:56 PM, gerrywalsh said:

the PWM signal goes 100% (same as no reading)

 

On 7/10/2021 at 8:47 PM, gerrywalsh said:

I've just tested the voltage on the fatter wires and they never change (stay around 0. 7v)

I guess the 1st quote about PWM signal is the reading from Forscan, not a voltage measurement, and the 2nd is a voltage measurement on the motor drive wires (carrying the PWM signal).

You could try some continuity tests on the PWM wires. If your multimeter has a diode test range, use that. It usually puts out a bit higher voltage (2v to 3v typ), and will measure continuity through ESD diodes, Clamp diodes & other diodes. I would expect the PWM signal may be driven by a full bridge (to make it reversible), unless the throttle has a sufficient return spring so it only needs energising one way. With ignition off, a full bridge will usually have clamp diodes to 0v and to PCM 12v main power, which is also more or less 0v with main power off.

With uni-directional drive, one wire may be hard wired to 0v in the PCM, but quite often both wires are still switched, for safety / ESD or other reasons.

If both wires seem to be connected to something, but not putting out any useful voltage on demand, then it would look like a PCM problem, sadly. But it is worth testing very thoroughly for bad wires or connections before jumping to this conclusion. Voltage measurements on un-powered wires using a multimeter can be very deceptive. The diode test range is much less sensitive. Use it in both polarities, wire to wire, and wire to 0v (chassis). Most semiconductor switches (all MOSFETS etc) will conduct like a diode one way round, even when nominally off.

[gerrywalsh]

Cheers Peter,

I could really do with a schematic that would confirm  if all 5 of these wires go directly to PCM or elsewhere. I've spoken to somebody who works in ford Europe and he thinks it's very likely the case that all 5 go direct to pcm for my configuration. Can't get me a schematic for security reasons though🤷‍♂️

In my mind, if I pop the connector out at both sides I can confirm if wires are good. If they are good then I dont see how I can go in any direction other than trying to swap out the PCM. I've already done the throttle body (air flow control valve). Is it just a matter of recoding in the injectors with new PCM?

Incidentally it's working completely fine with the arrival of some hot weather😐

 

 

[gerrywalsh]

Also as a side note, while the car is now operating normally and not accumulating fault codes the readings for throttle position remain the same during travel. No change in throttle position voltage (a 0-5v signal), staying around 0.7v until shut off or, the actual fed back reading form the throttle position sensor (seems to stay around 12 -13% until shutoff and then fluctuates). 

Maybe this is normal. I saw a video showing that these should go up and down during travel🤷‍♂️

[Tdci-Peter]

13 hours ago, gerrywalsh said:

Is it just a matter of recoding in the injectors with new PCM?

Almost certainly the PATS keycodes will need re-programming, and maybe EGR valve positions and some other valves on the 1.6.

The throttle valve should stay open during most normal running. It part closes during DPF regens, and may be used in conjunction with the EGR to boost EGR flow under certain conditions, as well as cycling shut at engine shutdown.

If you have a DPF, Forscan should provide some PIDs about its status, like km since regen or similar. If the valve was faulty, it would very likely prevent any regens.

[gerrywalsh]

Just checked another 1.6tdci same year and the Throttle voltage and position remain the same also, even when revved or during travel.

I will check those values later and maybe try a regen.  Are you suggesting that the issue with the air flow valve readings would prevent the regen and maybe this is where my functional / engine cut out problems are coming from?

Thanks again for all help and advice.

[Tdci-Peter]

On 7/15/2021 at 3:51 PM, gerrywalsh said:

Are you suggesting that the issue with the air flow valve readings would prevent the regen and maybe this is where my functional / engine cut out problems are coming from?

Yes & No!

Yes, I am 95% sure a long term problem with the throttle valve would stop the ECU from even trying a regen. But No, I would expect failure to regen to put a warning light on, and maybe go into a reduced power mode, but not suddenly cut out.

A sudden cut-out does sound like a real problem like the valve closing unexpectedly. But this could be a rare and intermittent event, so be hard to diagnose properly.

[gerrywalsh]

This issue has completely disappeared with the arrival of the hot weather. I've been a bit busy and never managed to run the regen process but intend to do it tonight to see does it produce a fault.

Very to difficult to fix a problem that has all of a sudden disappeared!

[Saimo]

Hi everyone!

I got the same problem, but i've checked the cables near the throttle body, and haven't meet any damage. I will appreciate if someone should share the pic of the location the cable was found broken under the battery case.

Thanks, guys

[CMThomp]

As this thread has been really helpful to me in sourcing this fault, I thought I'd share how I fixed it on mine.  My EML had been on and off a few times, but the P02E4 fault code was continuous when read with ForScan.  The car ran perfectly other than the EML and a broken wire would have been my last thought for the issue!

After changing the Throttle Body and confirming that the fault code re-appeared (a previous attempt to fix at a main dealer had previously replaced the TV and also replaced the EGR Valve), this left two possibilities - broken wire or faulty / corroded ECU.  To check both of these I decided to get to the ECU where I could check for corrosion and find the other end of the loom.

The ECU sits in the Left hand (passenger side) wheel arch below the front light cluster.  To remove, both bottom trays (the large one and the one that attaches to the front bumper), and the wheel arch liner need to be removed.  Three bolts attach the plastic box that the ECU sits inside.  You will need to remove some of the connectors and clips that hold the loom in place to drop it far enough down to work on.

The hardest job is getting to the ECU itself as it is riveted inside a plastic case - you need to drill out the five rivets to open the box, but they are quite soft so not as hard as I thought it was going to be.

Once inside, you will find 3 large block connectors - I removed them all and checked for any corrosion first but there was none - the connectors have a seal so it would take some serious flooding for corrosion to occur.  The plastic case itself is not watertight and not designed to be, but will protect the ECU from the worst of any water ingress and dirt.

The wires from the Throttle body all run back to the brown connector (to answer a previous question in this thread, they appear to go direct from the TV to the ECU).  The two motor wires are easy to trace as they are visible at the top of the connector - the other three sensor wires are harder to trace in the block, so this was a bit trial and error.  i've attached a pic for each wire location.

My electrical knowledge is minimal, so I set my multimeter to just test continuity and probed each wire with a pin inserted into the connector at each end of the loom.  My issue was continuity of the thicker Blue-Green wire that powers the motor itself.  The thicker wires seem to be the common ones to break, opening up the loom you will see that this and the thicker Yellow-Violet wire are wound around each other.

After removing the airbox and battery tray, I decided rather than try and find the break (the loom fits really tightly above the gearbox and is not easy to get to and inspect), I would just splice in a new wire, following the loom back from the ECU to the Throttle Body.

Happy to report the DTC has now gone - the telltale was when turning the key to on without starting the car now makes a buzz coming from the TV that previously wasn't there.

[aaron20100]

Hi all,

 

Just wanted to say thank you, I've literally had this error for 3 months and was left scratching my head, I'm shocked at how common this error is and no one comes back with a solution.

 

I followed the wire from the throttle to the battery and found no continuity and just happened to check behind the gearbox and in the exact same spot as yours 2 wire breaks clearly from water or some other liquid getting in and corroding it.

Thanks again.

[borinous]

I have this exact same issue. So today i attempted to look for the broken wire i did find the blue/green wire that is twisted with the yellow/pink was broken.

However after patching in a new section i still have the same issue. i checked the wiring at the lowest point behind the gearbox.

Is it worth checking the part of the harness that is clipped up directly under the battery box? maybe i have two breaks.

Also is there a way of testing the wire continuity without digging out the PCM?